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VIV mock draft 1.0

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 3, 2024, 14:45:57

1. CHI- Caleb Williams QB USC
No need to overthink this.

2. WAS- Drake Maye QB UNC
The total downplaying of Maye in draft circles the last few weeks has really been puzzling, with it being almost a sure thing that Jayden Daniels goes 2. For the sake of this mock, I’m going to categorize that as “lying season lies” from some teams trying to get him to drop.

3. ***TRADE*** MIN (from NE)- JJ McCarthy QB UM
Minnesota traded up to pick 23 for the express intent of moving up for a QB. I think they’ll be happy with whichever of Maye and McCarthy is there. I don’t think Daniels fits what they want to do. New England needs a QB, but they also need everything else. Their roster might be the worst in the league top to bottom and drafting the 3rd best QB and starting that rookie clock when the rest of the roster is poor just doesn’t make a ton of sense. They get picks 11, 23, and next year’s 1st from MIN.

4. AZ- Marvin Harrison Jr. WR tOSU
I think teams will be calling the Cardinals to go up for Jayden Daniels, but I think the draw of a potential generational talent in Harrison will be too much to pass up. Harrison has Larry Fitzgerald type upside.

5. ***TRADE*** LV (from LAC) Jayden Daniels QB LSU
Lots of talk surrounding the Chargers wanting to get out of pick 5 and with one remaining top tier QB available and the Giants at 6 potentially wanting a QB, they’re fielding calls from two division rivals in the Broncos and the Raiders. I think Daniels fits the Raiders a bit better. The Chargers get pick 13, this year’s 4th rounder, and next year’s 1st.

6. NYG- Malik Nabers WR LSU
The Giants get saved from themselves by having a top 3-4 player in the draft fall to them at 6. I love Nabers. He moves like young OBJ before the catch and runs like DJ Moore after the catch.

7. TEN- Joe Alt OT ND
This seems like such a natural fit that there’s almost no way it happens.

8. ATL- Dallas Turner EDGE Bama
The Falcons desperately need edge rush help and Turner is the most explosive of the bunch and fits their need.

9. CHI- Rome Odunze WR UW
The Bears have DJ Moore and just acquired Keenan Allen, so what gives? Well, Allen plays primarily in the slot and is on the wrong side of 30. Odunze immediately slots outside as an X with massive upside, giving your rookie QB every possible advantage to win now and down the line. I kicked around the idea of the Bears and Falcons doing a pick swap with the Bears kicking in a mid rounder next year just to ensure someone like the Chargers don’t come back up to 8 to take Odunze, but I already have a lot of trades.

10. NYJ- Brock Bowers TE UGA
Bowers is one of the rare rookie TEs that can have an immediate impact and he’s an instant upgrade over their current TE Tyler Conklin. He’s essentially a big slot receiver that can work between the numbers and maximize what Aaron Rodgers can do this year- which is why I went this route instead of having the Jets go with a tackle to bolster the aging pair they added/replace them when one of them inevitably gets hurt.

11. NE (from MIN)- Taliese Fuaga OL Oregon St
If you have a team devoid of talent, the first thing you should be doing is adding in the trenches. Fuaga is a plug and play type lineman who can start immediately at either tackle, giving the Patriots the versatility to play their best 5 linemen.

12. ***TRADE*** PHI (from DEN)- Quinyon Mitchell CB Toledo
In this case, I have the Broncos swinging and missing on trading up for a QB and this is entirely too rich for them to be taking a QB here. The Broncos also don’t have a 2nd round pick. Which team has two of them, a glaring need at cornerback made blatantly obvious at the end of last season, and would love the chance to go up and take the first CB off the board? The Eagles. They have to get younger and better at corner, so I have them going up to take MY GUY, Quinyon Mitchell.

13. LAC (from LV)- JC Latham OL Bama
This is connecting the dots based on the Jim Harbaugh hire. They want to get bigger and more physical up front and Latham is an absolute mountain that can play a couple of different positions.

14. NO- Olu Fashanu OT PSU
I still rate Fashanu very highly and think he has the upside of one of the best LTs in the league. This is both a BPA and a need-filling move for the Saints.

15. IND- Terrion Arnold CB Bama
The Colts get CJ Stroud and Trevor Lawrence 4x per year and they need to get better at corner.

16. SEA- Graham Barton OL Duke
My first real WTF swing of the draft so far. The Seahawks are kind of a dumpster fire on the interior of their OL and Barton can play any of the 5 positions, though many scouts think he’ll fit best at center. This versatility plus his athleticism have him as a late riser.

17. ***TRADE*** BUF (from JAX)- Brian Thomas Jr. WR LSU
I joked about it in the other thread, but following the Diggs trade, that Bills cupboard is bare at receiver. Who is Josh Allen going to throw to? I’ve got them getting ahead of teams like Steelers, Patriots, and Cowboys who may be in the market for a receiver. I personally think Thomas is trash- he’s my ANTI MY GUY of the draft, but he’s going to go pretty high.

18. CIN- Troy Fautanu OL UW
Protect Joe Burrow at all costs, you’ve seen what happens when he’s out. Fautanu is an excellent addition who can start immediately at guard and eventually kick out to RT.

19. LAR- Johnny Newton DT ILL
Newton will have some massive shoes to fill, immediately stepping into the role left by the retiring Aaron Donald. Byron Murphy from Texas is also getting a lot of buzz at this spot, but I think that’s only because Newton hasn’t been able to test for scouts over the last month. I still think Newton is the better player.

20. PIT- Jackson Powers Johnson C Oregon
The Steelers don’t really have a viable center on the roster. JPJ showed out at Senior Bowl week and can be the day 1 starter.

21. MIA- Amarius Mims OT UGA
Another OT off the board. Mims is absolutely massive and athletic but is a project. He can sit and learn behind Terron Armstead, who considered retiring this offseason.

22. DEN (from PHI)- Bo Nix QB Oregon
Sean Payton eats almost $90M in dead money to chase off Russell Wilson and in this scenario tries and fails to get up into the top 3 for the QB of the future and is instead left with… Bo Nix. That would feel a lot like Terry Benedict getting in to the elevator at the end of Ocean’s 11. Nix fits that Payton system as well as can be expected for the 5th QB off the board. I prefer Michael Penix Jr., but not in this system.

23. NE (from MIN)- Laiatu Latu EDGE UCLA
Keep building in the trenches for the Patriots. I gave them a tackle with the first pick, now I give them an edge. Latu is a great technician. By far the best rush moves in the draft. Potential injury concerns are the only thing pushing him down the board.

24. DAL- Tyler Guyton OT OU
The Cowboys sent long time LT Tyron Smith packing this offseason and are expected to move guard Tyler Smith out to fill that position. On the other side, RT Terrence Steele was pretty terrible last year. Either way, the Cowboys need help at tackle. Guyton is kind of a project, but could be forced into a starting role.

25. GB- Cooper DeJean DB UFI
I hate this because I think DeJean is really good and gives the Packers another defensive chess piece to move around the secondary. He can play inside or outside corner or safety and move around to neutralize matchups. He reminds me a lot of Brian Branch from last year who went to the Lions.

26. TB- Jared Verse EDGE FSU
Like the Bears, the Bucs prefer longer, stronger, bigger defensive ends. Verse is a truck with great power moves and strength to set the edge vs. the run. I think he’s a steal at 26.

27. AZ- Byron Murphy DT Texas
This is really a BPA and positional fit type pick for the Cardinals. They just spent a lot on bringing in 3 former Bears to play DL for them (Bilal Nichols, Justin Jones, Khyris Tonga), so DT isn’t a huge need, but Murphy gives them dynamic athleticism that the others don’t have. And he’s another great value.

28. JAX (from BUF)- Nate Wiggins CB Clemson
Before I had the Jags trading down from 17, I had Wiggins penciled in to them. It just felt a little rich at that spot. In this case, they trade back and still get him.

29. DET- Zach Frazier C/G West Virginia
Current Lions center Frank Ragnow reportedly contemplated retiring this offseason and the two current starting guards (Graham Glasgow and Kevin Zeitler) are both on the wrong side of 30. Frazier can either play center or guard and has a wrestling background, which Lions coach Dan Campbell supposedly really loves.

30. ***TRADE*** SEA (from BAL)- Michael Penix Jr. QB UW
WTF VIV? The Seahawks have Geno Smith and they just traded for Sam Howell. Why the hell would they trade up for Michael Penix Jr.? Well, neither of those QBs are very good, for one. Second, who is the new OC (don’t call it that) for the Seahawks? Former Washington Huskies OC (don’t call it that) and QB coach Ryan Grubb. You really couldn’t ask for a better hole to put your Penix in.

31. SF- Jordan Morgan OL Arizona
The one semi-need for the 49ers is getting better on the OL. Morgan is very athletic, which makes him a good fit for the 9ers run game and he can play either tackle or guard.

32. KC- Xavier Worthy WR Texas
The Chiefs are gonna keep chasing that Tyreek Hill dragon of tiny fast guys until they find one that fits. Mecole Hardman? Meh (winning TD of the super bowl aside). Kadarius Toney? Uhhh, no. How about the new combine 40 yard dash record holder?

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

What would everyone be willing to give up to move up to 4-6 to get MHJ?

Posted by TarheelIllini <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=TarheelIllini' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 9:30:01, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

This year R1 (9) and what else?

I’d give up next years #1 too because I think it will be very late

Stupidity has a knack of getting its way
Albert Camus
Courage is a muscle. You exercise courage by consistently doing things that scare you.
History doesn’t repeat itself but it often rhymes.

nothing. that's a mistake*

Posted by cpsteine <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=cpsteine' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 10:31:21, in reply to "What would everyone be willing to give up to move up to 4-6 to get MHJ?"

Previous Message

This year R1 (9) and what else?

I’d give up next years #1 too because I think it will be very late

Nothing. I’m not sold on the gap between Marv and Nabers/Rome.

Posted by Carl Spackler <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Carl+Spackler' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 9:57:27, in reply to "What would everyone be willing to give up to move up to 4-6 to get MHJ?"

I wouldn’t be willing to give up a future 1 or 2, I don’t think that price is worth it to go from drafting either of those 2 to drafting Marv.

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This year R1 (9) and what else?

I’d give up next years #1 too because I think it will be very late

absolutely. give 9 and '25 #1 and end thursday night with the top 2 players in the draft*

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 9:36:10, in reply to "What would everyone be willing to give up to move up to 4-6 to get MHJ?"

Previous Message

This year R1 (9) and what else?

I’d give up next years #1 too because I think it will be very late

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

This, absolutely this.*

Posted by MC <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=MC' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 10:15:47, in reply to "absolutely. give 9 and '25 #1 and end thursday night with the top 2 players in the draft*"

Previous Message

This year R1 (9) and what else?

I’d give up next years #1 too because I think it will be very late

Hello, is this President Clinton? Good! I figured if anyone knew where to get some Tang, it'd be you.

nothing

Posted by IlliniSax05 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=IlliniSax05' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 9:31:46, in reply to "What would everyone be willing to give up to move up to 4-6 to get MHJ?"

it is possible to draft a great player late in the 1st rd.

Why do you hate me, Sammich?

MAJOR UPDATE: "Maybe you're not such a bad egg, Lisle-y"
-Sammich, 1/15/2011

generational >>>>> great *

Posted by aimlessillini <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=aimlessillini' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 9:34:45, in reply to "nothing"

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it is possible to draft a great player late in the 1st rd.

generational PROSPECT

and the bears have a number of spots they need to fill in the next few years.

The best WR season in NFL history was put up by Calvin Johnson with 1,964 yards. The next best was Cooper Kupp with 1,947 yards. Cooper Kupp was drafted in the 3rd round.

great WRs can be found in later rounds. Hell, we might even get a guy that's damn near as good as MHJ at 9 anyway. The benefit of trading away a 1st rd. pick when we have other spots that need to be filled isn't there IMO

Why do you hate me, Sammich?

MAJOR UPDATE: "Maybe you're not such a bad egg, Lisle-y"
-Sammich, 1/15/2011

It's easy to cherry pick the later round players that hit

Posted by bjl63 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=bjl63' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 9:59:19, in reply to "generational PROSPECT"

when several others flame out and are never heard from.

If you can get a great prospect, you do it.

and plenty of guys that were thought to be great prospects ended up as busts

Posted by IlliniSax05 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=IlliniSax05' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 10:01:38, in reply to "It's easy to cherry pick the later round players that hit"

Why do you hate me, Sammich?

MAJOR UPDATE: "Maybe you're not such a bad egg, Lisle-y"
-Sammich, 1/15/2011

Of course, but why would you prefer to NOT try and get the best prospect if you are able?

Posted by bjl63 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=bjl63' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 10:16:09, in reply to "and plenty of guys that were thought to be great prospects ended up as busts"

I'd rather try that than hope a prayer gets answered

Drafting scared is how you keep drafting high

Now, it can be argued that Marvin, Nabers and Odunze are 1, 1a, and 1b. I'd be pleased with any of them, but if they think Marvin is worlds better and they have the capital to get him, they should do it IMO.

I don't see the wide delta in value between MHJ and the other top WRs

Posted by IlliniSax05 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=IlliniSax05' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 10:20:54, in reply to "Of course, but why would you prefer to NOT try and get the best prospect if you are able?"

that convinces me to trade a future #1 to move up for him. especially when I have plenty of other needs to fill

you may think that's drafting scared but I see it as evaluating the value of the players that are available vs. the needs of the team.

Why do you hate me, Sammich?

MAJOR UPDATE: "Maybe you're not such a bad egg, Lisle-y"
-Sammich, 1/15/2011

i think nabers and odunze can both be good NFL WRs. i think MHJR can be legit great.

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 10:38:42, in reply to "I don't see the wide delta in value between MHJ and the other top WRs"

like HOF great.

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

totally agree.*

Posted by cpsteine <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=cpsteine' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 10:37:42, in reply to "I don't see the wide delta in value between MHJ and the other top WRs"

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WR is a need and we don't know their evaluations of each

Posted by bjl63 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=bjl63' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 10:31:02, in reply to "I don't see the wide delta in value between MHJ and the other top WRs"

if they think Marvin is clearly the best they should try and get him. If their evaluations are equal(ish) between Marvin, Rome or Nabers then wait.

Personally, i think taking a WR at 9 is a good idea as these three appear to be ready to play and produce right away. And WR is still a big a need as Keenan is old, and missing 3-5 games is inevitable (he's missed 11 over the past 2 years IIRC.) No one wants to see Velus get any regular snaps. And Tyer Scott looked like a potential bust so expecting a huge leap is probably a huge leap....and a day 3 WR is what those two were.

I know it's a deep WR class but day 3 guys still are likely to not be ready to produce right away.

If all 3 WRs and Alt are gone, then I'd probably trade down. Otherwise, I stay at 9.

I agree with this (except for moving up to get MHJ, obviously)

Posted by IlliniSax05 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=IlliniSax05' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 10:33:52, in reply to "WR is a need and we don't know their evaluations of each"

Why do you hate me, Sammich?

MAJOR UPDATE: "Maybe you're not such a bad egg, Lisle-y"
-Sammich, 1/15/2011

Cooper Kupp is not in Calvin Johnson's ballpark as a player. Completely different standard

Posted by JacobRDaugherty <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=JacobRDaugherty' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 9:48:31, in reply to "generational PROSPECT"

Also 17 games vs 16 games

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by that logic, the greatest QB of all time was taken in the 6th round, why take one 1st?*

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 9:47:39, in reply to "generational PROSPECT"

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"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

because I think the odds of finding a great QB are much better in the 1st rd.

Posted by IlliniSax05 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=IlliniSax05' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 9:58:32, in reply to "by that logic, the greatest QB of all time was taken in the 6th round, why take one 1st?*"

than in later rds. vs. while plenty of great WRs are found outside the 1st.

so yes, MHJ might be the best WR in the league, but Odunze or Nabers might be damn near as good. and if not there are likely guys that can put up really good numbers outside of that. so I'd rather keep the draft pick that I could potentially use to fill another spot than trade it to move up and take MHJ.

Why do you hate me, Sammich?

MAJOR UPDATE: "Maybe you're not such a bad egg, Lisle-y"
-Sammich, 1/15/2011

Also betting markets starting to turn towards Maye at 2. They did the same last year for… Will Levis

So TIFWIW.

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Updated mini mock

1. Bears: Caleb
2. Commies: Maye
3. Pats: Daniels
4. VIKINGS: JJ (Vikes deal both 11 and 23, 2 future 3s)
5. CARDINALS: MHJ (Cardinals deal 11 and 35)
6. Giants: Nabers
7. Titans: Alt
8. Falcons: Turner
9. Bears: ROME
10. Jets: Fautanu
11. Chargers: Fashanu

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i would love the bears going up to 5 there, but the cardinals make sense *

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 9:21:11, in reply to "Updated mini mock"

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"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

Mini mock I wrote down first before changing it

1. Bears: Caleb
2. Commies: Maye
3. Pats: Daniels
4. VIKINGS: JJ (Vikes deal both 11 and 23, 2 future 3s)
5. Chargers: Alt
6. Giants: MHJ
7. Titans: Fashanu
8. CARDINALS: Nabers (Cards deal 11, 90 and 186)
9. Bears: ROME
10. Jets: Fautanu
11. Falcons: Turner

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pompei claims caleb finished last in his poll of nfl evaluators for intangibles.

Posted by Ari Gold <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Ari+Gold' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 8:27:09, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

also thought jj would be the 2nd or 3rd qb taken. and likes the bears taking dallas turner as high as 9.

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meh*

Posted by cpsteine <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=cpsteine' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 10:33:58, in reply to "pompei claims caleb finished last in his poll of nfl evaluators for intangibles."

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also thought jj would be the 2nd or 3rd qb taken. and likes the bears taking dallas turner as high as 9.

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i would love to know who he talked to and what their hangups are. *

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 9:19:18, in reply to "pompei claims caleb finished last in his poll of nfl evaluators for intangibles."

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

It's definitely the nails, the crying, the not liked by teammates.*

Posted by longsnapper <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=longsnapper' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 9:34:37, in reply to "i would love to know who he talked to and what their hangups are. *"

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Lots of puns, no real answers

they have 3 quotes about him and his teammates:

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 9:37:49, in reply to "It's definitely the nails, the crying, the not liked by teammates.*"

Scout 2: “Between series, he wasn’t a guy who went up and down the bench to talk to teammates. They had to come to him. I thought he operated in a bit of a silo. But teammates do speak highly of him.”

Scout 1: “Teammates have nothing but great things to say about him. His relationship with (USC coach) Lincoln Riley is strong. He’s always in the building. He takes care of himself.”

Scout 7: “The strength coach at USC raves about his work ethic, says it’s off the charts. All the players there follow him and love him.”

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

I hate stuff like the first one

Posted by CanHartlebHireSnider <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=CanHartlebHireSnider' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 9:40:56, in reply to "they have 3 quotes about him and his teammates:"

Everyone that has been around him as nothing but positive things to say about him.

But then some guy is trying to make a big deal out of whether he walked up to a teammate on the sideline.

Which I'm sure he has obviously done.

found it. it's in the athletic.

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 9:33:34, in reply to "i would love to know who he talked to and what their hangups are. *"

https://theathletic.com/5420456/2024/04/17/nfl-draft-quarterbacks-rankings-intangibles/

Some points on caleb:

-on "poise", caleb does it, but inconsistently. "Case in point — over the last three years, Williams fumbled 33 times." (that's not intangible- that's tangible. you literally just tangi-ed that ble by putting a number to it.)

"What should be noted is most of the scouts didn’t speak dogmatically about Williams’ intangibles. Most expressed uncertainty or less certainty than they felt about the others."

"Williams has been criticized for painting his fingernails and crying in his mother’s arms in the stands after USC lost to Washington. That raised questions about his toughness."

There it is!!!

"when you end up sobbing in your mom’s arms after getting beat, that’s a disqualifier for people who aren’t picking in the top few picks."

GMAFB.

"The reason he was sacked 83 times in his career is he doesn’t step up in the pocket. If it gets noisy, he drops back and does crazy things you can’t do in our league."

I genuinely don't think this guy watched the games. Him stepping up in the pocket is one of the things he does best.

also, unsurprisingly JJ is intangibles catnip to these people.

"In football character, McCarthy had a perfect score, which made him the only prospect with a perfect score in any category."

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

I do believe this is where this casual/subconscious prejudice to towards black QB‘s still exists

Posted by OB25 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OB25' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 10:09:13, in reply to "found it. it's in the athletic."

Among a subset of mostly white talent scouts and evaluators.

If Caleb Williams was white I think the conversation around him would be a lot different.

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https://theathletic.com/5420456/2024/04/17/nfl-draft-quarterbacks-rankings-intangibles/

Some points on caleb:

-on "poise", caleb does it, but inconsistently. "Case in point — over the last three years, Williams fumbled 33 times." (that's not intangible- that's tangible. you literally just tangi-ed that ble by putting a number to it.)

"What should be noted is most of the scouts didn’t speak dogmatically about Williams’ intangibles. Most expressed uncertainty or less certainty than they felt about the others."

"Williams has been criticized for painting his fingernails and crying in his mother’s arms in the stands after USC lost to Washington. That raised questions about his toughness."

There it is!!!

"when you end up sobbing in your mom’s arms after getting beat, that’s a disqualifier for people who aren’t picking in the top few picks."

GMAFB.

"The reason he was sacked 83 times in his career is he doesn’t step up in the pocket. If it gets noisy, he drops back and does crazy things you can’t do in our league."

I genuinely don't think this guy watched the games. Him stepping up in the pocket is one of the things he does best.

also, unsurprisingly JJ is intangibles catnip to these people.

"In football character, McCarthy had a perfect score, which made him the only prospect with a perfect score in any category."

When something is happening, young people like to say it’s “lit.”

wut?*

Posted by Ari Gold <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Ari+Gold' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 11:36:39, in reply to "I do believe this is where this casual/subconscious prejudice to towards black QB‘s still exists"

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Among a subset of mostly white talent scouts and evaluators.

If Caleb Williams was white I think the conversation around him would be a lot different.

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Cooper DeJean's case may be similar on the opposite end of the spectrum

Posted by bjl63 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=bjl63' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 10:33:29, in reply to "I do believe this is where this casual/subconscious prejudice to towards black QB‘s still exists"

are folks skeptical whitey can handle CB in the league?

it sounds more like boomer shit than racist shit because they like jayden daniels.

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 10:12:04, in reply to "I do believe this is where this casual/subconscious prejudice to towards black QB‘s still exists"

"If it’s your grandfather’s quarterback you’re looking for, Williams is not it. He doesn’t play like a traditional quarterback, he doesn’t express himself like a traditional quarterback, and he isn’t a conformist like a traditional quarterback."

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

ESPN, as a network, swoons over Daniels*

Posted by bjl63 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=bjl63' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 10:33:59, in reply to "it sounds more like boomer shit than racist shit because they like jayden daniels."

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"That's a disqualifier for people who aren't picking in the top few picks"

Posted by CanHartlebHireSnider <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=CanHartlebHireSnider' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 9:53:32, in reply to "found it. it's in the athletic."

lol

"I'm not getting Caleb so I can knock him"

JJ is walking up and down the bench between series, motivating everyone's crying mom*

Posted by Sammich <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Sammich' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 9:48:46, in reply to "found it. it's in the athletic."

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my life is nothing I thought it should be and everything I was worried it would become

JJ pulled off his own fingernails just so he'd never be tempted to paint them*

Posted by Sammich <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Sammich' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 9:49:15, in reply to "JJ is walking up and down the bench between series, motivating everyone's crying mom*"

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my life is nothing I thought it should be and everything I was worried it would become

lol*

Posted by cpsteine <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=cpsteine' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 10:35:14, in reply to "JJ pulled off his own fingernails just so he'd never be tempted to paint them*"

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JJ sleeps in a filing cabinet in the film room,

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 9:51:49, in reply to "JJ pulled off his own fingernails just so he'd never be tempted to paint them*"

using scouting reports of next week's opponent as blankets and pillows so he can absorb more information by osmosis.

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

haha what a joke*

Posted by illini21 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=illini21' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 9:36:33, in reply to "found it. it's in the athletic."

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also, these are some of the biases you're dealing with:

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 9:42:10, in reply to "haha what a joke*"

from the Jayden Daniels part:

"Scout 5: “He knows when to take off and when not to, as opposed to Caleb (Williams), who takes off sometimes because it looks cool. Jayden is chill.”"

I should value this guy's opinion?

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

HTF does he know why Caleb takes off vs why Daniels does. So dumb*

Posted by bjl63 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=bjl63' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 12:00:41, in reply to "also, these are some of the biases you're dealing with:"

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from the Jayden Daniels part:

"Scout 5: “He knows when to take off and when not to, as opposed to Caleb (Williams), who takes off sometimes because it looks cool. Jayden is chill.”"

I should value this guy's opinion?

meatheads gonna meathead*

Posted by cpsteine <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=cpsteine' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 10:36:54, in reply to "also, these are some of the biases you're dealing with:"

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If one of my scouts said that in an evaluation, I'd fire him*

Posted by longsnapper <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=longsnapper' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 9:51:01, in reply to "also, these are some of the biases you're dealing with:"

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Lots of puns, no real answers

That is an amazing quote*

Posted by illini21 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=illini21' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 9:44:46, in reply to "also, these are some of the biases you're dealing with:"

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What does that mean?*

Posted by illini21 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=illini21' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 8:28:01, in reply to "pompei claims caleb finished last in his poll of nfl evaluators "

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he mentioned things like leadership, poise, and processing as it relates to the top 6 qbs.*

Posted by Ari Gold <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Ari+Gold' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 8:32:50, in reply to "What does that mean?*"

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Gotcha. Responded before your edit*

Posted by illini21 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=illini21' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 8:33:27, in reply to "he mentioned things like leadership, poise, and processing.*"

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It means we're running out of things to talk about*

Posted by OrangeSox <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OrangeSox' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 8:30:17, in reply to "What does that mean?*"

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speaking of...Bill Barnwell's all trades draft

Posted by IlliniSax05 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=IlliniSax05' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 19, 2024, 8:37:49, in reply to "It means we're running out of things to talk about*"

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/story/_/id/39949788/2024-nfl-mock-draft-all-trades-deals-32-round-1-picks-players

1. Chicago Bears (via CAR)
Jaguars get: 1-1
Bears get: QB Trevor Lawrence, 2-48, 5-153

"Is either team even going to consider this trade for a second? Of course not."

then what the fuck are you doing this for?

Why do you hate me, Sammich?

MAJOR UPDATE: "Maybe you're not such a bad egg, Lisle-y"
-Sammich, 1/15/2011

So, I’m coming around to the fact that the Bengals at 18 may very well have Amarius Mims

Posted by voiceofreason <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=voiceofreason' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 18, 2024, 19:53:01, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

or Byron Murphy at 18. Mims is incredibly intriguing , but not a lot of snaps to judge. Murphy is a huge position of need, but if the Bengals don’t get a RT they are screwed.

I have my over/under on Trent Brown games played at RT for the Bengals this year at 6.5.

They really need a RT and a DT. And both drop off big time after round 1.

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Mims is 100% project. Would probably be best for him to sit a year.

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 18, 2024, 20:13:48, in reply to "So, I’m coming around to the fact that the Bengals at 18 may very well have Amarius Mims "

Very high ceiling, but he’s like a Great Dane puppy out there. No idea where his limbs are going.

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"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

Probably going be the best RT prospect they have a shot at for a few years though.

DT is such a big need too. What I wouldn’t give for a trade up this year.

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Very high ceiling, but he’s like a Great Dane puppy out there. No idea where his limbs are going.

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Mina Kimes on Newton:

Posted by assassin <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=assassin' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 18, 2024, 13:30:31, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

she loves him. and i love her.

https://twitter.com/minakimes/status/1780987242200379779

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Brandon Schrock of Laredo, Texas, told the federal government that his employer was “poop,” and his occupation was “pooper.”

All bias aside i think he's gonna be a monster in the NFL

like several Pro Bowls

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she loves him. and i love her.

https://twitter.com/minakimes/status/1780987242200379779

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The Ringer put out a draft guide. Interesting stuff

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 18, 2024, 9:54:29, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

https://nfldraft.theringer.com/

what i particularly find interesting is their pinpoint percentage, which they define as "how often the quarterback puts the ball in the perfect position for the receiver to snatch it and make a play."

williams: 71.4%
maye: 58.4%
daniels: 66.8%
mccarthy: 60.6%
penix: 44.3% (oof)
nix: 66.1%

I'm going to do a deeper dive on some of these numbers when I get a chance.

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

Deeper dive on the numbers:

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 18, 2024, 12:42:04, in reply to "The Ringer put out a draft guide. Interesting stuff"

We talked about total pinpoint percentage in the previous post, now let’s look at some of the other stats.

For the general numbers: Average yard per attempt is illustrative of the team offensive philosophies. Daniels (9.7 yards per attempt), Maye (9.2) and Penix (8.7) all really pushed the ball downfield. Williams was on the low end at 7.4 but look how low Nix was at 5.9. It clearly shows how horizontal and quick hitting that Oregon offense was. Interceptable percentage is all pretty tightly bunched, with Nix being an outlier on the low end (1.5%) and Daniels being an outlier on the high end (4.5%).

On to the situation-specific numbers:
First read vs. Beyond: Williams is elite at 75%. Daniels is the only other player over 70 (70.2). McCarthy at sub 60 (59.8) is shockingly low. 2nd read and beyond shows not only progression skills and speed, but footwork and mechanics to reset and reload. Maye did excellent, setting the bar with 58.3. Williams and Nix right behind at 56.3 each. McCarthy again is shockingly low at 40, as is Penix at 40.4. One other thing that jumped out at me is how far Daniels falls off from 1st read to 2nd and beyond. He’s 70.5 on the first read and only 46.3 after that. That’s a red flag.

In pocket vs. out of pocket: Again, Williams is elite in-pocket (73.3) with Nix (68.5) and Daniels (67.1) right behind. Maye all the way down at 61.7 was a surprise. Also a surprise is that he’s somehow better out of pocket (65.5). The only QB with a negative split like that. Daniels is also excellent out of pocket (64.3) followed by Williams (63.5). McCarthy again shockingly bad at 39.6, a 20.8% dropoff from his already low in-pocket figure.

Clean vs. pressured: Again, Williams is elite when clean (79.5!). The rest are tightly bunched in the 60s with no one else above 70 and McCarthy the lowest at 60.5. But another strange negative split. McCarthy goes from the worst of the 6 with a clean pocket to the best of the 6 when pressured (62.9). He’s 2.4% better with pressure in his face. Daniels did well at 60.9, followed by Williams 58.3 and Maye 55. Nix really disappoints, all the way down to 51.5 and Penix… WTF man (45.8).

Clear throw vs. tight window: A broken record here, but Williams is elite. Best at both the clear and the tight window (75.1/54.1). Daniels is 2nd in both (70.2/51.6), then Nix (67.8/50) and Maye (66.1/51.5) are close in the middle with McCarthy and Penix at the bottom. McCarthy has the largest fall off between clear and tight window, from 65.5 clear to 43.4 tight and unsurprisingly ranks last in tight window.

Lastly, let’s look at what they do with pressure:
Penix and Nix are by far the most likely to stand in the pocket and deliver the ball at 71.6% of the time for Penix and 68.9% of the time for Nix. At the other end of the spectrum, Jayden Daniels only stood and delivered (aka the Jaime Escalante) 36.7% of the time. Williams was on the low end at 43.4%, McCarthy was 45%, Maye 55%.

This is also a clear delineation on pct of sacks taken. The two pocket passers also had the lowest sack pct with Nix at 5.4% and Penix at 6%. Daniels had the highest with an eye-watering 23.3%, followed by McCarthy (18.3), Williams (16.2), and Maye (14.7).

Next, I’m going to group “escape” (meaning evade to throw) and “scramble” (evade to run), specifically to compare those two numbers. Daniels scrambles to run at the exact same rate as he scrambles to throw (18.3%). That’s by far the highest scramble to run rate, with McCarthy being the only other one even in double digits (11.7). Williams, by contrast, scrambles to throw more than 4 times more than he scrambles to run (21.2 vs 5.1). McCarthy is about 2:1 (23.3 vs 11.7) and Maye a bit less than that (15.6 vs 9.2). Nix showed more mobility than I expected with rates of 13.3 and 7.8. Penix hardly ever moved (6 vs 1.5).

Last is the “pct thrown away.” Predictably, Penix leads this at 15.3%. He’s a stand in the pocket QB. If the throw isn’t there and he’s under pressure, he’s going to throw it into the 3rd row and live to fight another day. The most surprising figure to me was Williams at 13.1%. For someone that moves around as much as he does, that’s a very high total. Nix is 3rd at 6.7, then Maye at 6.4, Daniels at 3.3, and McCarthy only at 1.7. To me, that shows that Williams has a good feel of when he should and shouldn’t be going for the hero shot vs. moving to the next play.

Conclusions:
-Williams looks even better than I expected and I had an already lofty opinion of him. He’s elite at most metrics, but I do have pause on him being just ok or average at under pressure percentage and he takes more sacks than I’d like. You have to love the accuracy numbers and the evade to throw percentages, though.
-Maye looked better than I expected, especially 2nd read and beyond. He was the only QB better out of pocket than in-pocket but shows general inconsistency with accuracy. He’s 4th best of 6 in first read, in in-pocket, in clean pockets, and with clear windows and 5th at overall pinpoint percentage and under pressure percentage. As good as he is on 2nd read and beyond and out of the pocket, he needs to improve his evade to throw vs. evade to run percentage to be great at the next level.
-Daniels performed well on first read, on time, clean pocket, clear window accuracy faring 2nd or 3rd in all of those. That all breaks down a bit when the first read is not there, or he’s pressured. These numbers certainly suggests that if he can’t get that first man, he’s dropping his eyes and looking to run. When you have the skills that he has with his feet, that’s not necessarily a bad thing, but NFL defenses are going to eventually take that away from you and make you win from the pocket (see Fields this year). He’s going to have to learn to go through progressions, cut down on the sacks and reduce that very high interceptable percentage.
-McCarthy fared much worse than I expected. Last in both first read pct and 2nd and beyond pct. Last in out of pocket accuracy. Last in clean pocket. Last in tight windows. 2nd worst in sack percentage. He’s surprisingly best when he’s pressured, though. The only QB better under pressure than not.
-Penix was also much worse than I expected. I never thought of him as a super accurate player, but these are alarmingly bad, especially for a QB that doesn’t scramble. There’s not really any area at which he excelled in these metrics except sack avoidance.
-Nix was better than I expected. Some of the accuracy scores will be inflated slightly due to the shorter average yard per attempt, but he was still quite good across the board. He can quickly process and is accurate through his progressions and doesn't throw the ball where it's going to get in trouble (lowest INT%). He has a significant drop off when pressured (he goes from 2nd best when clean to 2nd worst when pressured), which is something to keep in mind.

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

Bumping your own thread?*

Posted by JeffFrank <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=JeffFrank' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 18, 2024, 12:47:02, in reply to "Deeper dive on the numbers:"

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After a bunch of other people responded, yeah. Solid detective work.

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 18, 2024, 13:28:24, in reply to "Bumping your own thread?*"

Big difference between keeping all the draft talk condensed into one thread where many people are talking about it and you starting a thread, no one responding to it and you bumping it to keep it from falling off the first page.

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"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

Interesting. Makes me feel much, much better that Williams is the closest thing to sure. Also

Posted by LovetheChief <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=LovetheChief' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 18, 2024, 12:46:22, in reply to "Deeper dive on the numbers:"

confirms that I think you are absolutely insane to draft JJ McCarthy in the top 20, much less top 10.

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Not for the Bears at #1 obviously, but at one point I was all in on Penix being undervalued

Posted by OB25 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OB25' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 18, 2024, 10:11:10, in reply to "The Ringer put out a draft guide. Interesting stuff"

And then I did the groundbreaking evaluation technique of actually watching him play, and he seemed really inaccurate every time I did. Wasn’t at all what I expected based on how much people raved about his arm during the first half of the season.

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When something is happening, young people like to say it’s “lit.”

I really don't see him working out in the NFL at all*

Posted by illini21 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=illini21' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 18, 2024, 10:14:04, in reply to "Not for the Bears at #1 obviously, but at one point I was all in on Penix being undervalued "

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Me neither. I never got the Penix hype.

Posted by CanHartlebHireSnider <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=CanHartlebHireSnider' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 18, 2024, 12:45:53, in reply to "I really don't see him working out in the NFL at all*"

He's old, injury prone, and has a weird throwing motion.

The weird throwing motion isn't a big deal on it's own but it's another thing that adds up.

Most of his college success came after he transferred to Washington and was years older than his competition. His time and IU was overhyped IMO.

One week until the draft! I have circled the Jags as my trade partner of choice.

Move from 9 to 17, should be able to pick up a 2nd rounder, might need to include some future late rounders back.

At 17, should be able to get one of Brian Thomas, Murphy, Turner or Verse. I don’t really see a whole lot of value in being at say 12 and getting my pick of those guys. Would rather have the trade comp bumped up a little and take whoever is left at 17.

This is all assuming the WRs are gone by 9, which I’m not convinced of at all. Think it’s maybe 50/50, with Cards trading back into top 9 as biggest threat.

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who would jax be wanting to come up to get? also, please no brian thomas. *

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 18, 2024, 9:06:20, in reply to "One week until the draft! I have circled the Jags as my trade partner of choice."

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"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

Their top corner or OL.

Posted by Carl Spackler <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Carl+Spackler' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 18, 2024, 14:42:56, in reply to "who would jax be wanting to come up to get? also, please no brian thomas. *"

I agree that it doesn’t seem like it’s worth it, it’s why I have the same questions of who is gonna give up assets for these guys? But teams talk themselves into players being better than the consensus all the time and the Jags have a history of moving around in the first.

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I never liked Richard Thomas. The mole always creeped me out*

Posted by bbonb <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=bbonb' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 18, 2024, 10:02:46, in reply to "who would jax be wanting to come up to get? also, please no brian thomas. *"

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I'm kinda meh on Dallas Turner

Posted by bjl63 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=bjl63' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 18, 2024, 9:43:42, in reply to "who would jax be wanting to come up to get? also, please no brian thomas. *"

the production didn't necessarily match the tools

Hopefully ATL takes him.

He had 10 sacks last year, which i think led the SEC*

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 18, 2024, 17:05:13, in reply to "I'm kinda meh on Dallas Turner"

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the production didn't necessarily match the tools

Hopefully ATL takes him.

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

I am also a no on Brian Thomas*

Posted by JacobRDaugherty <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=JacobRDaugherty' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 18, 2024, 9:07:17, in reply to "who would jax be wanting to come up to get? also, please no brian thomas. *"

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Really good #teamtradedown article from The Athletic

https://theathletic.com/5416007/2024/04/16/nfl-drafting-methods-insight-massey-thaler/?source=emp_shared_article

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Bump*

Posted by JeffFrank <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=JeffFrank' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 21:06:10, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

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Caleb named to All-Juice team:

Posted by longsnapper <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=longsnapper' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 17:51:36, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

https://sports.yahoo.com/2024-all-juice-team-10th-annual-edition-hopes-to-be-as-successful-as-terez-paylors-first-140023345.html

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Lots of puns, no real answers

Spackler, or anyone else that wants to play:

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 16, 2024, 9:54:30, in reply to "Caleb named to All-Juice team:"

Let's do something similar.

He's doing his based on projections on mock drafts. I don't see one on their site that has a full 7 round mock to pick from. I looked for a top (X) list for the draft and CBS sports has this one that's a top 400.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospect-rankings/

I definitely don't go as deep as he does with opinions on players into priority free agency or even the 7th round, so how about we do this:

11 man offense, 11 man defense. You can line them up as you see fit but it has to be somewhat believable. Have to have 5 OL and a QB on offense. Have to have at least 2 bigger guys on the DL (can't play 4 edges as your DL), have to have at least 4 DBs on defense.

You must choose 2- no more, no less- from the following prospect ranges:
Top 10 (top 1st)
11-20 (mid 1st)
21-32 (bottom 1st)
33-42 (top 2nd)
43-52 (mid 2nd)
53-64 (bottom 2nd)
65-82 (top 3rd)
83-100 (bottom 3rd)
101-135 (4th)
136-176 (5th)
177+ (6th+)

Build the team that you think would be the most successful 3 years from now.

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

I’ll get in on this at some point the next couple days*

Posted by Carl Spackler <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Carl+Spackler' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 18, 2024, 7:58:54, in reply to "Spackler, or anyone else that wants to play:"

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Team VIV:

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 16, 2024, 10:22:56, in reply to "Spackler, or anyone else that wants to play:"

Top 10: Caleb Williams (QB), Quinyon Mitchell (CB)
11-20: Rome Odunze (WR), Brock Bowers (TE)
21-32: Cooper DeJean (CB), Johnny Newton (DT)
33-42: Tyler Guyton (OT), Zach Frazier (OG)
43-52: Graham Barton (C), Tyler Nubin (S)
53-64: Payton Wilson (LB), Mike Sainristill (NB)
65-82: Kris Jenkins (DT), Jaden Hicks (S)
83-100: Marshawn Kneeland (EDGE), Malik Washington (WR)
101-135: Roger Rosengarten (OT), Junior Colson (LB)
136-176: Blake Corum (RB), Zak Zinter (OG)
177+: Will Shipley (RB), Jalyx Hunt (EDGE)

QB: Caleb Williams
RB: Blake Corum
RB: Will Shipley
WR: Rome Odunze
WR: Malik Washington
TE: Brock Bowers
OT: Tyler Guyton
OG: Zak Zinter
C: Graham Barton
OG: Zach Frazier
OT: Roger Rosengarten

EDGE: Marshawn Kneeland
EDGE: Jalyx Hunt
DT: Johnny Newton
DT: Kris Jenkins
LB: Payton Wilson
LB: Junior Colson
CB: Quinyon Mitchell
CB: Cooper DeJean
NB: Mike Sainristill
S: Tyler Nubin
S: Jaden Hicks

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

Terez Paylor: pre-Spoonerized for your convenience*

Posted by Sammich <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Sammich' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 16, 2024, 9:07:07, in reply to "Caleb named to All-Juice team:"

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https://sports.yahoo.com/2024-all-juice-team-10th-annual-edition-hopes-to-be-as-successful-as-terez-paylors-first-140023345.html

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my life is nothing I thought it should be and everything I was worried it would become

Newton, too!*

Posted by Dilbert <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Dilbert' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 21:11:20, in reply to "Caleb named to All-Juice team:"

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https://sports.yahoo.com/2024-all-juice-team-10th-annual-edition-hopes-to-be-as-successful-as-terez-paylors-first-140023345.html

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well that's fun. i like that idea. *

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 20:58:44, in reply to "Caleb named to All-Juice team:"

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https://sports.yahoo.com/2024-all-juice-team-10th-annual-edition-hopes-to-be-as-successful-as-terez-paylors-first-140023345.html

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"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

AI has gone too far

Posted by gvibes <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=gvibes' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 11:53:45, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

https://x.com/xstancampbellx/status/1779132704740487541?s=46&t=N63qpuREHi8xKiU-cwu1OQ

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I thought this was going to be the Caleb Williams one from a few days ago*

Posted by CanHartlebHireSnider <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=CanHartlebHireSnider' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 12:17:20, in reply to "AI has gone too far"

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https://x.com/xstancampbellx/status/1779132704740487541?s=46&t=N63qpuREHi8xKiU-cwu1OQ

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ourlads also has daniels as the highest rated qb.*

Posted by Ari Gold <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Ari+Gold' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 7:43:14, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

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Don’t overthink it.

Posted by uofi1998 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=uofi1998' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 12:18:48, in reply to "ourlads also has daniels as the highest rated qb.*"

One will be a Pro Bowler.

The other will be out of the league in 5 years.

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Coleman Hawkins, er, Ty MF Rodgers Stan Account

Who are they?*

Posted by bjl63 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=bjl63' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 9:32:07, in reply to "ourlads also has daniels as the highest rated qb.*"

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They’re good for compiling depth charts. *

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 12:36:08, in reply to "Who are they?*"

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"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

ok*

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 8:52:28, in reply to "ourlads also has daniels as the highest rated qb.*"

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

This changes everything. How much would we have to give up to get Fields back from Pittsburgh?*

Posted by OB25 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OB25' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 9:45:25, in reply to "ok*"

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When something is happening, young people like to say it’s “lit.”

now biggs has the bears trading back to 11, getting a 3rd, and drafting fautanu?

Posted by Ari Gold <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Ari+Gold' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 7:22:27, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

and that’s with nabers and odunze on the board? yikes.

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That would be insane especially with Nabers on the board*

Posted by illini21 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=illini21' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 7:46:12, in reply to "now biggs has the bears trading back to 11, getting a 3rd, and drafting fautanu?"

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and that’s with nabers and odunze on the board? yikes.

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not to mention ourlads claims oline is the deepest group in this year’s draft.*

Posted by Ari Gold <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Ari+Gold' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 7:50:08, in reply to "That would be insane especially with Nabers on the board*"

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and that’s with nabers and odunze on the board? yikes.

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it's a good class for both receiver and tackle.*

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 9:06:00, in reply to "not to mention ourlads claims oline is the deepest group in this year’s draft.*"

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

And QB, but maybe that was assumed. Insane class for QB this year.*

Posted by ibdoc <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=ibdoc' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 9:11:23, in reply to "it's a good class for both receiver and tackle.*"

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true, though i'm out on Maye. *

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 9:17:32, in reply to "And QB, but maybe that was assumed. Insane class for QB this year.*"

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"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

Love for JJ has been going crazy lately*

Posted by ibdoc <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=ibdoc' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 9:31:08, in reply to "true, though i'm out on Maye. *"

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it has. i like JJ better than Maye. both are going in the top 5 and that's too rich for me. *

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 10:00:32, in reply to "Love for JJ has been going crazy lately*"

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"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

USA Today mock has the Bears passing on Odunze at the 9 spot and taking Verse

Posted by ibdoc <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=ibdoc' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 10:02:56, in reply to "it has. i like JJ better than Maye. both are going in the top 5 and that's too rich for me. *"

Mixed on that as I'd love that target for Williams to succeed but the D-line is a huge glaring weakness.
Is Verse the best get for that?

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Here’s how I think of it: You aren’t building a Super Bowl contender for 2024.

Posted by Carl Spackler <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Carl+Spackler' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 12:15:47, in reply to "USA Today mock has the Bears passing on Odunze at the 9 spot and taking Verse"

You’re building it for 2025-2029 (and hopefully beyond). You can’t fix DE, WR and 3T in one draft. WR2/3 looks just as bad in 2025 as edge does. Take the BPA at DL/WR on your board at 9. Or, if you have them similarly stacked, move down 4-5 spots and acquire more assets.

Should have 3 top 50ish picks next year you can do serious damage with. Hell might have 5 top 100 picks if Cunningham leaves.

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Mixed on that as I'd love that target for Williams to succeed but the D-line is a huge glaring weakness.
Is Verse the best get for that?

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i think you can trade back from 9, especially if odunze is still on the board

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 10:28:05, in reply to "USA Today mock has the Bears passing on Odunze at the 9 spot and taking Verse"

(someone will want to come up for him)

the top 3 edge prospects are a bit down to scheme fit.

i do think verse is probably the best fit of the three for what the bears do. he's a bull in a china shop type who wins more with power than moves or speed. he cut weight to run fast at the combine. he only weighed in at 254, but i think in the nfl, he'll play closer to 265-270.

dallas turner is very highly regarded and may be the first defensive player off the board (lots of people projecting him 8 to atlanta). he projects best as a 3-4 outside linebacker. on the shorter side but has crazy long arms. he's very athletic and can even cover backs and TEs in space. he hasn't put it all together yet.

laiatu latu is my favorite of the 3. he's not the biggest and strongest, nor is he the fastest, but he's excellent with pass rush moves and hand use. he has a 10-year-vet's mindset to the game in setting up tackles, having counter moves, having counters to the counters. i love him. he's a wild card, though, because he was medically retired from football 2 years ago due to a neck injury. no one outside of the teams themselves and their doctors will be able to know how to project that. if he's medically cleared, i think he's a star in the league.

one guy to keep in mind if the bears trade back is darius robinson from mizzou. he's 6'5" 285 and plays like a truck. that's more the style the bears go for. he'll likely be available somewhere in the mid to late 20s (so if the bills come all the way up to 9 for odunze, for example).

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

But if Odunze is on the board, shouldn't they just stay and take him?

Posted by bjl63 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=bjl63' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 10:49:02, in reply to "i think you can trade back from 9, especially if odunze is still on the board"

Or do we want Tyler Scott to be WR2 and Velus WR3 when Allen inevitably gets banged up?

I understand WR is deep, but why pass on a potential immediate impact one for someone who may work out down the road?

I would take Odunze.

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 10:55:49, in reply to "But if Odunze is on the board, shouldn't they just stay and take him?"

you've got allen for 1-2 years and he plays predominantly in the slot. you still need an outside receiver across from moore (tyler scott is currently your starting flanker with velus backing him up) and i think odunze can be really good (though nabers would be a better fit).

the case for a DL or a trade back is that poles didn't do much in free agency to shore up the pass rush while losing justin jones. there are only 3 DTs on the roster who have taken an NFL snap and two of them were rookies last year. and on the outside opposite sweat, you have demarcus walker with a bunch of projects backing him up.

maybe that's resolved by trading back from pick 75 and making 2 mid to late round picks on the DL?

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

If they take an edge at 9

Posted by bjl63 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=bjl63' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 11:02:55, in reply to "I would take Odunze. "

Latu is the one I want, health allowing. I mean, he didn't miss a game at UCLA and everyone is a health risk at this level anyway.

Dude just knows how to get to the QB. he has an innate skill that only few have.

And if they can't clear Latu....

Posted by bjl63 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=bjl63' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 11:07:50, in reply to "If they take an edge at 9"

I'd probably prefer Byron Murphy over Verse

I like Murphy, but he doesn’t seem like the right body type for Flus’ system.

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 15, 2024, 12:55:15, in reply to "And if they can't clear Latu...."

Most 40-fronts, you’d want the shorter, quicker 3T that can shoot gaps and get upfield. That doesn’t seem like what Flus wants there. He had Buckner in Indy and chose Dexter in last year’s draft for that spot. Both big, tall DTs built more like 5-tech DEs from a 30-front.

That’s partly why i keep going back to Robinson from Mizzou. He’s that build. Could either play DE or 3T. And you need help with both.

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I'd probably prefer Byron Murphy over Verse

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

Tweet about Williams

https://x.com/krusesports_/status/1778202501894037708?s=46&t=0IcYjY_mR1vUFMwHD349vg

Stupidity has a knack of getting its way
Albert Camus
Courage is a muscle. You exercise courage by consistently doing things that scare you.
History doesn’t repeat itself but it often rhymes.

Did we talk about the details on the Diggs trade? Makes Allen trade look GREAT.

Posted by Carl Spackler <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Carl+Spackler' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 9, 2024, 7:06:04, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

Diggs got an extra $3MM on this year’s deal which I think brought his deal up to $21MM. Also voided the out years, which were non-guaranteed, in his deal. Think I heard they agreed not to franchise him either, which makes sense given they agreed to a void.

So would you rather give up a 4th this year and pay Allen $23MM for 1 year or a 2nd next year and pay Diggs $22MM this year?

Not even close for me.

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If Alt and the WRs are gone by the 9th pick, the guy I want is Latu

Posted by bjl63 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=bjl63' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 8, 2024, 15:25:26, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

not necessarily there if they want to move down, but I'm OK with him at 9 too. If they want to bump up their pass rush, he's the guy. I'm kinda meh on Turner. Verse is fine (I'd take him before Turner I think) but Latu is better.

Yeah, i get the neck thing and they'd have to due their due diligence multiple times over, but he didn't miss a game at UCLA and was uber-productive.

It’s hard for me to have any opinion on Latu with the neck.

Posted by Carl Spackler <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Carl+Spackler' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 8, 2024, 15:43:31, in reply to "If Alt and the WRs are gone by the 9th pick, the guy I want is Latu"

My knee jerk reaction is don’t use top 10 picks on guys that were once told they should never play football again.

But #notadoctor, so tough to feel strongly about anything.

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that's my only hesitation with latu. he's the best edge player in the class otherwise.

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 9, 2024, 9:15:21, in reply to "It’s hard for me to have any opinion on Latu with the neck."

he's got a 10 year vet's brain when it comes to rushing the passer. set ups, counters, counters to the counter. and great hands. he's so fun to watch. he's not the biggest, strongest, or fastest, but he knows how to beat blockers.

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

and if the bears trade back, one guy to keep an eye on is Darius Robinson from Mizzou

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 9, 2024, 9:24:04, in reply to "that's my only hesitation with latu. he's the best edge player in the class otherwise. "

say someone like the rams at 19 want to come up for byron murphy, the eagles at 22 want to come up for a corner, or the bills want to come up from 28 for a receiver.

he just screams Bears DE

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

My (second) guy! Want him in SF but I don’t think they need DL now *

Posted by MC <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=MC' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 9, 2024, 9:45:52, in reply to "and if the bears trade back, one guy to keep an eye on is Darius Robinson from Mizzou"

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say someone like the rams at 19 want to come up for byron murphy, the eagles at 22 want to come up for a corner, or the bills want to come up from 28 for a receiver.

he just screams Bears DE

Hello, is this President Clinton? Good! I figured if anyone knew where to get some Tang, it'd be you.

I have seen a lot of folks be high on Murphy and would be OK with him at 9*

Posted by bjl63 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=bjl63' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 9, 2024, 9:35:02, in reply to "and if the bears trade back, one guy to keep an eye on is Darius Robinson from Mizzou"

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say someone like the rams at 19 want to come up for byron murphy, the eagles at 22 want to come up for a corner, or the bills want to come up from 28 for a receiver.

he just screams Bears DE

looking at the depth chart, i agree.

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 11, 2024, 10:03:24, in reply to "I have seen a lot of folks be high on Murphy and would be OK with him at 9*"

i'd love another weapon for williams to make him as successful as possible, but this DL is still pretty bleak.

https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/CHI

Sweat is a really good piece at DE. Opposite him, you've got Demarcus Walker, who is a decent run stopping DE, but doesn't generate a lot of pressure. Behind him, you've got Dominique Robinson, who is all projection and little production. He's frankly been bad. You added Jacob Martin, who in very limited snaps showed that he can maybe get some pressure. He got 11 pressures on 107 pass rush snaps, which is pretty good, but you can't rely on that as your #2 outside rusher.

On the inside, you've basically only got a 3 man rotation at the moment of Billings, Dexter, and Pickens. The other two on the depth chart were practice squad players who haven't played an NFL snap. Billings had a really good year at nose tackle and I'm glad they brought him back. Dexter showed some flashes of pure physicality in pass rush, but has a long way to go to learn polish in his game and was pretty bad vs. the run. Pickens was very similar. Had some flashes in getting pressures but was absent vs. the run.

I don't think there's any way they go into the season without adding at least 1 quality piece on the line, either in the draft or via available free agents.

Players still on the market I think would be a fit:
DE:
Bring back Yannick Ngakoue- He pretty bad last year but did improve a bit once Sweat came on board. At least knows the defense and the calls.
Charles Harris- Good rotational player. Only had 2 sacks last year. Undersized for what the Bears want.
Carl Lawson- Chronically injured, a bit undersized for what the Bears do at DE.
Emmanual Ogbah- Wrong side of 30 and on the downside of his career. Pass rush only type player but did have 6 sacks last year.

DT:
uhhhhhh
...
...
Bryan Mone, who was just ok for the seahawks in 2022 and missed all of last season and is a nose tackle only?

it's bleak.

I honestly can't believe Poles didn't get at least 1 major addition to the line.

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

Rams have been linked to Johnny Newton since Donald retired a lot*

Posted by JacobRDaugherty <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=JacobRDaugherty' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 9, 2024, 9:31:03, in reply to "and if the bears trade back, one guy to keep an eye on is Darius Robinson from Mizzou"

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say someone like the rams at 19 want to come up for byron murphy, the eagles at 22 want to come up for a corner, or the bills want to come up from 28 for a receiver.

he just screams Bears DE

T’Vondre Sweat with a DWI. Wonder how much alcohol it takes to get that guy loaded*

Posted by Carl Spackler <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Carl+Spackler' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 7, 2024, 16:16:11, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

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Maybe it was his first time drinking.*

Posted by Warrin'_Illini $<iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Warrin\'_Illini' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'>$ on April 8, 2024, 8:53:58, in reply to "T’Vondre Sweat with a DWI. Wonder how much alcohol it takes to get that guy loaded*"

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Let me cook.

It’s a special kind of dumbass

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 8, 2024, 8:52:25, in reply to "T’Vondre Sweat with a DWI. Wonder how much alcohol it takes to get that guy loaded*"

To do something like this between the end of the season and the draft, yet we see it pretty much every year.

So maybe it’s not that special?

But you know it’s essentially a multi month job interview. Can you not button your shit up until may?

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

Supposedly had partying issues earlier in his career he had to address with teams*

Posted by Carl Spackler <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Carl+Spackler' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 8, 2024, 11:25:42, in reply to "It’s a special kind of dumbass "

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Let's see.....360 pounds...

Posted by illinijohn <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=illinijohn' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 7, 2024, 16:39:09, in reply to "T’Vondre Sweat with a DWI. Wonder how much alcohol it takes to get that guy loaded*"

answer: 2 shitloads

biggs thinks they should stay at #9 and get a difference maker

Posted by Ari Gold <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Ari+Gold' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 4, 2024, 14:10:02, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

given they shouldn't be picking this high again for awhile.

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they should just get difference makers with all of their picks

Posted by Sammich <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Sammich' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 4, 2024, 14:40:03, in reply to "biggs thinks they should stay at #9 and get a difference maker"

I can't believe they never considered that strategy

my life is nothing I thought it should be and everything I was worried it would become

well if biggs thinks so then I'm on board. I wasn't sold on the idea until now

Posted by IlliniSax05 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=IlliniSax05' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 4, 2024, 14:11:55, in reply to "biggs thinks they should stay at #9 and get a difference maker"

Why do you hate me, Sammich?

MAJOR UPDATE: "Maybe you're not such a bad egg, Lisle-y"
-Sammich, 1/15/2011

I'm coming around on drafting Nabers if he's there at 9*

Posted by longsnapper <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=longsnapper' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 4, 2024, 12:29:50, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

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Lots of puns, no real answers

just make sure the practice facility has good fences first*

Posted by Sammich <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Sammich' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 4, 2024, 12:50:52, in reply to "I'm coming around on drafting Nabers if he's there at 9*"

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my life is nothing I thought it should be and everything I was worried it would become

acknowledged.*

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 4, 2024, 13:11:54, in reply to "just make sure the practice facility has good fences first*"

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"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

I think he’s going to be a stud too. Think I’d rather have him than Odunze.*

Posted by voiceofreason <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=voiceofreason' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 4, 2024, 12:37:59, in reply to "I'm coming around on drafting Nabers if he's there at 9*"

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I would gladly take them both. It's just which flavor do you prefer?

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 4, 2024, 12:47:45, in reply to "I think he’s going to be a stud too. Think I’d rather have him than Odunze.*"

Odunze is a proper outside X receiver. He's big and strong, has good but not blazing speed. Great route runner, fantastic hands, already has some veteran polish to his game, absolutely elite at 50/50 balls. I heard someone compare him to AJ Green and I really like that.

Nabers is electric. No one in the class separates from defenders like he does. Because he's a threat over the top, people play off of him and then he snaps off a break and he's got 3-4 yards of open space when the ball arrives. And the thing that truly makes him special IMO is his RAC ability. He's got the speed that makes you think he's going to be dainty and easy to bring down, but he's a truck in the secondary. To me, he's early OBJ in his route running and DJ Moore in his RAC ability.

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

Me too. I just don't see any scenario where Nabers is there at 9*

Posted by illini21 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=illini21' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 4, 2024, 12:39:55, in reply to "I think he’s going to be a stud too. Think I’d rather have him than Odunze.*"

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QBs go 1-4, mhj, odunze... Then hope turner & alt go next.*

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Lots of puns, no real answers

But I agree it is not likely*

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Lots of puns, no real answers

Sidejack: I’ve seen some “Take Joe Alt and move Jones to swing tackle” takes. Absolutely fucking not

Posted by Carl Spackler <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Carl+Spackler' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 4, 2024, 10:06:48, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

Braxton is a league average-ish LT on a rookie contract and the Bears are a team gearing up for a SB push, but still 2 years away. You can not let that asset rot as a swing tackle. You should be able to get at least a 3rd rounder for him, if not a 2nd (maybe a future 2nd)?

The only way taking Joe Alt makes sense is trading Braxton.

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it's not taking Laremy Tunsil because you have Charles Leno Jr. all over again.

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 4, 2024, 10:12:06, in reply to "Sidejack: I’ve seen some “Take Joe Alt and move Jones to swing tackle” takes. Absolutely fucking not"

Alt can be a perennial pro bowl tackle.

Jones is... fine.

If you can upgrade the position, you should.

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

It wouldn’t be my favorite direction, but I’m OK with that, just deal Braxton.*

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Alt can be a perennial pro bowl tackle.

Jones is... fine.

If you can upgrade the position, you should.

So NE just rolls the dice with Jacoby B?

Posted by ISeeDeadHawkeyes <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=ISeeDeadHawkeyes' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 4, 2024, 9:02:39, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

Seems like a team that knows they'll just be in line for #1 next year.

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yeah, this is a multi year rebuild for the patriots. it's the worst roster in football.

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 4, 2024, 9:06:27, in reply to "So NE just rolls the dice with Jacoby B?"

your OL might be the worst in the league, your front 7 has two good players and one of them is 31, and you have the worst receiving group in the league. you need as many high picks over the next 3-4 years as possible.

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

I'd draft one of the QBs and sit him for a year.*

Posted by Warrin'_Illini $<iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Warrin\'_Illini' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'>$ on April 4, 2024, 10:05:46, in reply to "yeah, this is a multi year rebuild for the patriots. it's the worst roster in football."

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Let me cook.

Caleb took his top 30 visit to Chicago today and Odunze takes his tomorrow*

Posted by Carl Spackler <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Carl+Spackler' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 3, 2024, 18:53:48, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

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That would be a pretty great deal for the Raiders*

Posted by OWWDig <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OWWDig' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 3, 2024, 15:25:50, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

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looking at the chart, it should be a 3rd instead of a 4th. *

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 4, 2024, 9:00:23, in reply to "That would be a pretty great deal for the Raiders*"

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

I think it's still a good deal. I do wonder if Daniels will fall that far, but if he does...

Posted by OWWDig <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OWWDig' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 4, 2024, 9:02:31, in reply to "looking at the chart, it should be a 3rd instead of a 4th. *"

I think the Raiders would jump on that.

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I'd personally take Adonai Mitchell over Worthy

Posted by bjl63 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=bjl63' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 3, 2024, 15:21:01, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

Yeah Worthy is fast but also thin. I like Mitchell's game way better but that doesn't mean KC does.

I also agree that 6 QBs go in the 1st*

Posted by bjl63 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=bjl63' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 3, 2024, 15:24:54, in reply to "I'd personally take Adonai Mitchell over Worthy"

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Yeah Worthy is fast but also thin. I like Mitchell's game way better but that doesn't mean KC does.

i wouldn't have worthy that high, but i think the chiefs are going to continue to chase speed*

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 3, 2024, 15:24:43, in reply to "I'd personally take Adonai Mitchell over Worthy"

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Yeah Worthy is fast but also thin. I like Mitchell's game way better but that doesn't mean KC does.

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

I have officially worried myself into Odunze slipping to 8 and Jets going from 10 to 8 to get him*

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did you read my blurb about swapping 9 and 8? because i'm worried about the same.

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 3, 2024, 15:11:40, in reply to "I have officially worried myself into Odunze slipping to 8 and Jets going from 10 to 8 to get him*"

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

Totally missed that part. I’m starting to feel good about Odunze getting to 7/8ish.

My other concern is the Cardinals doing what they did last year. Moving from 4 to 11, then back to 8. So Harrison goes Chargers, Nabers goes Giants, then Cards take Rome 8.

Mini-mock;
1. Caleb
2. Maye
3. Daniels
4. Harrison
5. JJ (Vikings)
6. Nabers
7. Alt
8. Turner
9. ROME

That’s pretty chalky, let’s see if it changes over the next few weeks. A lot of hopium in that mock.

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also, when are you gonna do a mock?*

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 3, 2024, 15:13:46, in reply to "did you read my blurb about swapping 9 and 8? because i'm worried about the same. "

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"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

I think that’s definitely in play. Or should be*

Posted by snipes824 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=snipes824' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 3, 2024, 15:11:40, in reply to "I have officially worried myself into Odunze slipping to 8 and Jets going from 10 to 8 to get him*"

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I like Worthy. Is this the worst draft for RBs in recent memory?*

Posted by Poldark <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Poldark' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 3, 2024, 14:57:39, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

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Social Misfit who wants to coach Illinois women's basketball.

"He's jealous of detlef."

2014 was pretty terrible (Bishop Sankey was the first RB off the board)

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 3, 2024, 15:06:15, in reply to "I like Worthy. Is this the worst draft for RBs in recent memory?*"

This is better than that. Somewhere between there and the Breece Hall/James Cook/Kenneth Walker class of 2 years ago.

There's no Bijan or Saquon or even a Josh Jacobs or Najee Harris that's worthy of a first round pick and they're all kind of bunched up in that 2nd-3rd round range. There are definitely breakout candidates, but so much is going to depend on situation. I like Trey Benson (FSU) and Jaylen Wright (TEN) the best.

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"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

there's just no way the bears should trade down more than a couple of spots with all of that talent

Posted by Ari Gold <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Ari+Gold' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 3, 2024, 14:56:57, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

still available around #9.

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I hadn't thought of it until now but DeJean to the Packers just seems like the lock of all locks*

Posted by illini21 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=illini21' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 3, 2024, 14:56:55, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

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I hate it.*

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 3, 2024, 14:57:38, in reply to "I hadn't thought of it until now but DeJean to the Packers just seems like the lock of all locks*"

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"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

I do not understand the JJ McCarthy love. At all. His own coaches didn't trust him to throw the

Posted by LovetheChief <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=LovetheChief' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 3, 2024, 14:47:27, in reply to "VIV mock draft 1.0"

ball against Penn St.

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He is coach and GM catnip.

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 3, 2024, 14:55:06, in reply to "I do not understand the JJ McCarthy love. At all. His own coaches didn't trust him to throw the "

He broke his thumb ahead of the state title game for Nazareth and elected to play with it instead of getting the surgery he needed and they won. He won a national title at Michigan. Harbaugh raves about him. He played hockey growing up. He's tough. He's only lost like 3 games since he was a HS sophomore.

It's all the intangibles.

You have to project that "he wasn't asked to do much at Michigan, but he can do more." He's a good enough athlete with a good enough arm, can read the defenses good enough, performed well on 3rd downs and in end game situations. I personally think the 3rd pick is nuts for him, but he's going top 5.

"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

Yup. He spikes on every single thing that they overvalue *

Posted by meanjeans <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=meanjeans' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 3, 2024, 15:26:34, in reply to "He is coach and GM catnip. "

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BLAM, there's my opinion people - behold

he's a more athletic, better-armed mac jones plus all that stuff.

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 3, 2024, 15:32:00, in reply to "Yup. He spikes on every single thing that they overvalue *"

i think it's kind of nuts, but what do i know?

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"the sum value of my outfit will always be higher than yours."

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