then there's all the "proto" stuff like the Stooges that definitely had the right attitude... and the Ramones, musically, are more of a bubblegum 50s rock-influenced group.
I think a lot of young kids get into crap mall punk or what have you, then maybe go down the road to hardcore, and then dig up the old stuff (Clash and such) and don't find it to be punk at all. then there's weirdo scenesters who think you need to have liberty spikes to be a punk band.
I think to keep it simple, 80s hardcore is true punk... all the mall punk from the 90s can still be punk, even though we all know it's mostly mediocre.
ugh why do I bother with a post like this at 9 in the morning in the office... nobody should bother reading this, I'm not coherent, as usual