Norman Dunn's 'Hebburn and our Neighbours Forum'

Norman Dunn's 'Hebburn and our Neighbours Forum'
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Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Eric on June 10, 2022, 10:43:01

The Rwanda Agreement isn’t all that it seems.

Clause 16 states the following;

16.1 The Participants will make arrangements for the United Kingdom to resettle a portion of Rwanda’s most vulnerable refugees in the United Kingdom, recognising both Participants’ commitment towards providing better international protection for refugees.

According to the UN, there were 126,000 asylum seekers in Rwanda in October 2021. There are probably more now. Of these, many are disabled, mentally ill, requiring palliative care etc. There are 1,198 from the Congo alone.
For every asylum seeker (healthy young males?) that we send to Rwanda, we will get a person back who will probably never work and will put a massive strain on the NHS, housing, social services etc. So a plane taking 50 healthy asylum seekers to Rwanda will return with 50 very ill or disabled asylum seekers from Rwanda. I assume that the people with greatest needs will come first.

This has never been publicised to my knowledge.

For the first time ever, I hope that the Human Rights Lawyers stop this!

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Mac Cummings on June 10, 2022, 11:12:54, in reply to "Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

Yes the Memorandum of Understanding with Rwanda does say that but it is totally silent on the numbers.
So you cannot say that 50 out will equal 50 in!
But nevertheless the implications are concerning.
I have written to my MP for clarification. More should do so. MP's themselves may be in the dark!

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Lilian on June 10, 2022, 12:17:23, in reply to "Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

This surely is not true.Our own people who need to be looked after will be neglected by this crazy exchange .unbelievable.

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Brian on June 10, 2022, 13:01:09, in reply to "Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

They are also getting millions of pounds too, sorry but I think it's a smokescreen for something else, I wonder if there some sort of agreement for minerals or the like going on. There is no advantage at all in the agreement also the foreign office advised UK residents not to to visit Rwanda as they couldn't guarantee peoples safety yet will send asylum seekers there. Sorry but it stinks.

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Norman Dunn on June 10, 2022, 13:25:28, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

I've emailed the Jarrow MP and the Shields MP and asked them to look into this and let me know if this is true. I attached a Link to the thread aswell
I heard recently that the Rwanda Hotels are rubbing their hands in glee awaiting the refugees.
Why do we have to pay millions to house illegals invading our country?
If it was the other way round the French would return the illegals to us.

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Sheila on June 10, 2022, 14:21:05, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

As we have signed the Human Rights into law( Thanks Mr Blair). The Human Rights Lawyers will get richer from our taxes and illegal immigrants are here for good. They know once on British soil they will never be removed. We don’t have enough doctors, NHS struggling, not enough school places, but still they keep coming. The Liberal left shout loudest that the are all desperate asylum seekers and we must take them. At the same time they tell us we have hungry children and elderly who say it’s either eat or heat. Oh and finally, they are escorted from France and handed over to UK Border Force. Although I would not be brave enough to chance it.

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Mac Cummings on June 10, 2022, 16:03:59, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

The lawyers are at it today and now the UNHCR is attempting to block arrangements. They said in court.....
“The UK-Rwanda arrangement fails to meet the required standards relating to the legality and appropriateness of bilateral or multilateral transfers of asylum-seekers.

“This arrangement, which amongst other concerns seeks to shift responsibility and lacks necessary safeguards, is incompatible with the letter and spirit of the 1951 Convention".

Strikes me that it is not 1951 because at that time hordes of young men were not illegally crossing the channel in rubber dinghy's from a safe country, ie France.
Just 7 years before that it was our boys crossing the channel to save France but all that is forgotten. It seems that in the minds of some it is GB's responsibilty to look after all these people at our expense.
I give up.

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Sheila on June 10, 2022, 17:26:20, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

That’s the point Mac, the 1951 convention should be scrapped. What other country takes any notice. Even the Human Rights act was set up after the war, that Europe would never again be able to go to war like Germany. Churchill never thought we needed it, but Mr Blair though differently. One of his Masters at Fettes said he just like to change things even if there was never a reason to do so. I do worry where it will all end.

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Mac Cummings on June 10, 2022, 17:32:26, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

You and I and some others are awful uncaring people arent we! Scrap a 1951 convention Sheila. What an idea. You will be wanting to live in the 21st century next

and allow our taxes to line the pockets of the Human Rights brigade and appease the goody-goodies!!
I better stop now

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Sheila on June 10, 2022, 17:34:50, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

I tell myself the same thing constantly Mac and often wish I had😳

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by geordieboy on June 11, 2022, 20:57:13, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

" I want to tell you a story " There was a huge Lindon Tree growing in my front garden , a few ants scurried around it's base , live and let live I thought , one day it came crashing down . When I looked in the gaping hole where the tree once stood , it was filled with thousands of ants . The mighty British Oak Tree is under attack from the refuge (noun) being washed-up on your shores , better smell the rose now before the proud British Colours which many fought and died for is trampled in your rose garden . Now is not the time to be complacent - you are at war on your own turf .

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Liz dance on June 10, 2022, 15:59:10, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

I will email our MP, Bill Wiggins, about this and also ask for clarification, if what is implied is true it does make a mockery o& the so called Agreement.

Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Peter on June 10, 2022, 20:48:03, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

I will be very interested to hear what Sir Bill has to say!

If I don't like what he says to you, Liz, he'll have another one of my notes!

We keep in touch, you know; haha!

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Liz Dance on June 10, 2022, 21:30:10, in reply to "Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

Hello Peter, i thought it was Jesse Norman to whom you wrote?

I will certainly let you know if Sir Bill replies, this Clause 16.1 in the Agreement is quite alarming to say the least, what is point in sending X number of asylum seekers to Rwanda to get X number back again, totally potty!!!

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Sheila on June 11, 2022, 7:48:30, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

Until they are towed back to France it will never stop. The latest appeal I have read is Africa persecutes LGBT. Surprise now most of the illegals are claiming the are LGBT.

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by geordieboy on June 11, 2022, 11:59:39, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

Sheila ; You are to kind hearted , short pier long walk , giddieup - Sink or swim .

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Sheila on June 11, 2022, 19:30:28, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

GeordieboyNS, I didn’t mean the illegals not to be taken care of, just delivered back to France , where the were already safe. We can’t afford them. The south is being concreted over for houses, they will not be able to afford. . In my town four bed new houses start at £750,000 to £800,000..

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by geordieboy ns on June 12, 2022, 11:11:55, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

Sheila , no harm intended BUT dont put your alien feet on my shore. No political will to stop it ? With the finest navy in the world , time to let the world know - No tresspassing .

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Brian on June 12, 2022, 12:18:50, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

Whether we can afford them is a moot point, the system we use is broken,Patel's idea to send them to Rwanda won't work, Israel have been doing this and the big complaint is there's no jobs or housing and no infrastructure to deal with it the systems that were supposed to be in place aren't
and Rwanda are being well paid for this and would also be by the UK government and as well as the cash we also get Rwandan citizens with chronic health conditions who will be integrated into the support systems of NHS etc. You have to wonder about the sanity of the people who come up with these schemes.
The housing we need aren't 4 bedroom town houses with £800k price tags but social housing which has lessened greatly since the council house sell off instigated by Margaret Thatcher which would have worked better if the monies from the sales had been enough to build new social housing but the discounts in some cases were around 70%. These houses have been sold on in a lot of cases to private landlords who ramp the rents up to way above what people would have been charged by local authorities or housing associations, there's some good landlords but also a lot of poor ones too and not enough properties to go around.
Governments have made pledges on social housing that none have kept regardless of party and attempts to raise the standards of private rented housing in Parliament was blocked by a significant number of MPs who surprise,surprise are private landlords. We have far too many MPs who serve their own interests instead of their constituency and the country These are the people who are bleeding the country financially.

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Sheila on June 12, 2022, 13:19:31, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

Brian, what don’t you think the answer to giving social housing to the most in need, which often appears to be families or single people who are determined to destroy the homes they are given. I have seen it in my town. These houses built by the same builder and really nice 20 years ago. The communal area has used drug needles, that young people with little ones have to pass. The police are called 2 and 3 times a week. Sadly people who have paid hundreds of thousand for their home, find it difficult to sell. Moving these families on just cause’s a problem for someone else.
Lots of young families would love to have these houses, but their need seems not enough. This bidding system for a council home must be so stressful. The old system was fairer to my mind

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Brian on June 12, 2022, 14:18:44, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

I agree that the old system for social housing was definitely the best, some housing associations are going back to estate inspections to ensure stock is being looked after, sink estates are horrendous, quite often thrown up in an area with next to no amenities, you only need one or two problem families to ruin an estate, there was a pilot that ran in Dundee about 20 years back where problem families were removed from the estates and put into a multi story block complete with curfew rules, regular inspections and interaction with social services and police. These families were placed in this environment for a minimum period of 26 weeks before being reconsidered for a council property and the tenancy offered was probationary and reviewed twice yearly, it made a huge difference and although it wasn't cheap the money it saved by stopping estates becoming sink estates and no go areas made it financially worth it.
It should be reinstated across the country.

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Sheila on June 12, 2022, 14:42:19, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

That sounds a good idea Brian. So many young families would look after a decent house, but don’t get the chance. It’s a difficult situation, I would not know where to start.

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by ricky on June 12, 2022, 16:28:20, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

While on the subject of housing. I now find myself looking for alternative housing after my landlord has decided to sell the 2 flats he owns, infact there sold now....dont know who the new landlord is yet but I have to move out as they will be renovated and turned into holiday lets. Out of the 16 houses/flats in the street, 8 of them are holiday lets/second homes. No 1 is empty , my upstairs flat and the empty downstairs flat will also be holiday lets/second homes. Most of the houses/flats in my town are being snapped up, but not by locals. I cannot get a place in my town ,council houses are now very hard to get, of course young teens with babies go top of the list. I've lived in this flat for 29 years, never wanted to buy a place, quite happy to rent but there is none to rent. I now hear the plonker of a PM has now decided to let people buy housing association homes. These are the very places I would like to rent. The UK is a great place to live......if your asylum seeker.

For Ricky

Posted by Norman Dunn on June 13, 2022, 10:06:57, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

Hi Ricky,
Sorry to hear about your experience.
I'm sure if you were prepared to move to our area, you'd soon find accomodation.
Good luck with whatever you decide and we hope you keep on being a regular here. You've helped so many people with your IT advice.

Re: For Ricky

Posted by ricky on June 14, 2022, 14:00:56, in reply to "For Ricky"

Cheers Norman, I was from Whickham , now living in Northumberland. I had considered moving back to my roots but at nearly 65 I was'nt keen on the prospect of having to start again in an area where I hardly know anyone. I've been living away for nearly 40 years. We'll see what turns up.

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Mac Cummings on June 12, 2022, 16:04:13, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

Under Mrs Thatchers plan the house were sold to ordinary people, sitting tenants.
Yes some of them sold them on at great profit but hey don't blame the great lady for that!! It was the ordinary folk who sold them!
I am a Private landlord. A good one I hope. And I am sure that most parliamentarians who are also landlords are not bad people.

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Brian on June 12, 2022, 23:59:14, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

Mac, You have to wonder how good some of these parliamentarians are when they voted against improving housing conditions for tenants of private landlords and just how many voted without declaring an interest, something that isn't supposed to happen but does far too often nowadays.

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Sheila on June 13, 2022, 8:42:00, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

Brian, I thought there were laws against bad landlords. Ever since the horrors of the 1960’s and the vile London landlord Rachman.
My thoughts are, most of the time, if you have good tenants you have a good landlord.

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Brian on June 13, 2022, 9:34:44, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

They need updating Sheila, the problem is now because their is a housing shortage that desperate people move into what they can get. People are scared to report it in case the landlord chucks them back out on the street so you have unscrupulous landlords who do nothing but take money for little or no return. It's not just individuals there is a housing association in London who basically did nothing to a whole estate, wouldn't do repairs, maintenance etc, an employee blew the whistle on them and it made the press and they have been giving a strict timetable with financial penalties if the housing stock is not brought up to a state of good repair.

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Sheila on June 13, 2022, 18:26:11, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

Brian, sadly, do you not think unscrupulous landlords are making money from their tenants being illegal immigrants. I have seen programmes about councils in London trying to get evidence from people living in very bad properties, but the tenants just disappear.

Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Brian on June 13, 2022, 23:04:19, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

Sheila, I agree with you totally, there's some truly vile people exploiting vulnerable people and there's not enough done to stop them, the properties should be confiscated under the proceeds of crime act and prison sentences not fines should be imposed. The people disappear in a lot of cases because of where they came from, officialdom was the cause of pain and misery in their country and it becomes normal not to trust officials and the police.

Private Landlords for Brian.

Posted by Mac Cummings on June 13, 2022, 11:02:33, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

I believe that it was not the Bill but a Labour amendment which they voted against.
The subsequent Homes (Fitness for Human Habitation) Act 2018 requires private sector landlords in England to ensure their properties are fit for human habitation at the beginning of the tenancy and throughout. The Act provides tenants with the means to take legal action against their landlord.
And it is pure speculation that some voted without declaring an interest.

Re: Private Landlords for Brian.

Posted by Brian on June 13, 2022, 13:29:10, in reply to "Private Landlords for Brian."

Mac, voting without declaring an interest is happening more often and its not limited to anyone party, as there's no disciplinary action other than asking for an apology its not a real deterrent is it.

Re: Private Landlords for Brian.

Posted by Mac Cummings on June 13, 2022, 15:38:29, in reply to "Private Landlords for Brian."

Possibly true Brian but without the specific evidence I cannot say......!

Re: Private Landlords for Brian.

Posted by Brian on June 13, 2022, 15:43:41, in reply to "Re: Private Landlords for Brian."

Some of the press named specific MPs a year or two back who did it on a regular basis. The uniform answer was it was an oversight.

Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement

Posted by Peter on June 11, 2022, 18:09:25, in reply to "Re: Rwanda Asylum Seekers Agreement"

No, Liz, it's always been my pal, Bill, Haha; other than the one occasion I wrote to Mrs. Emma Lewell- Buck, the Labour MP for South Shields.

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