Norman Dunn's 'Hebburn and our Neighbours Forum'

Norman Dunn's 'Hebburn and our Neighbours Forum'
[ Norman Dunn's 'Hebburn and our Neighbours Forum' ]

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To build 370,000 houses in a year is that possible ? All B.S. ?

Posted by Allan Campbell on 3/8/2024, 16:23:42

I see that that number is the target given out by A. Rayner.

From what I have read the maximum reached in any one year is about 150,000.

So to have an increase of well over 100% there would probably require to double the workforce. Where could you get the workers from?

The other way is to reduce the amount of work required to build each house. That would only give a very minor increase.

There will be a limit on how much you could reduce say the size of a house before it becomes unsaleable.

Make more prefabricated housing ! Possible I suppose but there could be a high resistance or acceptance of them unless of very high quality say Swedish type !

With any housing projects the design, price and location etc. will determine if people will buy them.

The main crunch Where is the money going to come from first to build and buyers for them.

Then there is getting the land to build them on, big problem I think.

There are a tremendous number of houses being built in the Harrogate area. ABout 6 or 7 schemes/ sites.

A few are to me ugly, well not for me! Others detached with a very small gap between the houses. I look and think could I put up a ladder to paint the barge boards!

I have not been up in Hebburn for about a year and then not near any new housing over Monkton, the Coke works way,to see what’s being built.

Allan C.

Re: To build 370,000 houses in a year is that possible ? All B.S. ?

Posted by Sheila on 3/8/2024, 17:32:01, in reply to "To build 370,000 houses in a year is that possible ? All B.S. ?"

The house prices in this area, seem to be to expensive for first time buyers. I think the government is talking about the need for social housing. My daughter said in her local council,in London, there are queues of people trying to find a home, or just arriving with children having been made homeless. Some councils do use Private landlords, but some bad tenants sometimes have to be evicted. Then the council has to pick up the bill for the dreadful state some houses are left by Tennant. It’s a difficult situation .

Re: To build 370,000 houses in a year is that possible ? All B.S. ?

Posted by Brian on 3/8/2024, 20:55:36, in reply to "Re: To build 370,000 houses in a year is that possible ? All B.S. ?"

Sheila is right, even 150,000 would be a hell of an achievement, planning takes time as does finding available and suitable land, as well as associated services etc

Re: To build 370,000 houses in a year is that possible ? All B.S. ?

Posted by Brian on 3/8/2024, 22:08:59, in reply to "Re: To build 370,000 houses in a year is that possible ? All B.S. ?"

Probably the biggest problem to hit the target is the lack of skilled people to fill the vacancies, both private companies and housing associations cannot fill the vacancies on offer.

Brian agreed we all know that so why the B. S.

Posted by Allan Campbell on 3/8/2024, 23:21:38, in reply to "Re: To build 370,000 houses in a year is that possible ? All B.S. ?"

All of us on the board know that there is not enough tradespeople to build that amount of housing and it would take 4 to 5 years to train up new skilled people.

Is there a short cut way ? Just use unskilled Labour ?

I have done brick and block walls for my garage in about 1970/72 plus all the digging, concreting, roofing plus electrics.

However I had studied it all at college in Newcastle, the electrical side by Dad. That was the only time that I managed to put my training to practical use.

I do remember the brickwork lectures and exams.

The number of types of ways of laying bricks, coursing I think they called it. English, French, and other styles. How to build brick arches and other stuff came into it. I think they also lectured on mortar mixes, concrete mix etc.

We were taught how to design steelwork and concrete buildings and structures etc.. some timber work also came into it.

I had forgotten all that about brickwork, It was all theory no practical except that you had to drawn it on paper. That was all night school in Bath Lane.

It was all toward you becoming a Structural Engineer or architect when you were able to get a job with a Consulting Engineer etc.

Just writing this brings back memories of what we learned at Bath Lane and Rutherford College’s

Did I ever use all the stuff that we were taught after leaving college. The steelwork and concrete yes. Nothing on brickwork except you had the knowledge to ask questions about what was being used for or in the building you were designing.

A case in point. In a power station they modified a switch room on the operating floor and they changed the type of bricks that were to be used. The change resulted in the weight of the switch room walls increased by a huge amount so we had to redesign the supporting steel work but it was already built so it ended up having to install props to various beams.

A brick is not just a brick there are so many different types for different purposes. You have house brick, engineering bricks and so on. Goodness knows how many types there are these days.

At least this tread has brought back memories of stuff long forgotten.

Thanks people Allan C.

Brickwork an interesting subject

Posted by Allan Campbell on 4/8/2024, 8:36:24, in reply to "Brian agreed we all know that so why the B. S."

My previous post stirred my memory.

The way of laying bricks in various styles, there was if I remember correctly called Flemish bond, English Bond, Header bond.

The main one that you see on the majority of buildings is Running or Stretcher Bond.

The various Bonds probably to suit what was being built way back.

The type of brick used varied a lot. Those used for a house not very strong but those for a chimney stack very very strong.

I would expect these days that there are very very few brickies that can lay the more complicated Bonds or even know of them.

I wonder the type and Bond they use in furnaces or kilns.

Allan C.

Re: To build 370,000 houses in a year is that possible ? All B.S. ?

Posted by Liz Dance on 4/8/2024, 9:54:57, in reply to "Re: To build 370,000 houses in a year is that possible ? All B.S. ?"

Wouldn’t it be better, in the first instance, if the Government took over empty properties, there are loads of these places, owners of the properties should be contacted asked for the reason the property is empty, if there is no good reason then the landlord should be given 6 months to find a tenant or the Government will intervene.

The next step should be abandoned house building sites, there are plenty of those around, these sites should be commandeered and finished off.

Then maybe empty office buildings, there are plenty of those around, so many people now working from home, these buildings should be investigated to see if they could be turned into flats, after all many are in central locations so no need to garaging that kind of thing.

These are just starting points but would avoid concreting over farmland and green belt, don’t forget once farmland is built on that is one less field providing food for us you will never get that back!!!

The above, to my mind, takes common sense, I am sorry but I don’t thing Angela Rayner et al have common sense they just want to further wreck the country to build houses to accommodate our ever exploding population but, as it is always being told to us, immigration is good for us!!!

Liz I suspect you know very little about the construction industry

Posted by Allan Campbell on 4/8/2024, 12:25:12, in reply to "Re: To build 370,000 houses in a year is that possible ? All B.S. ?"

Empty houses, why are they empty.

There are a lot of reasons that they stand empty.

One very good reason is that tenants were moved out to make way for renovations say around 2019/20.

Everything then stopped due to COVID. This resulted in various things. Lack of manpower to start or restart works, added to that the cost of material’s vastly increased.

That means refinancing which takes time as you have to build up your reserves etc.

Landlords will not leave a property empty if they can make enough money to justify the various expenses that come up.

An old property if refurbished has to meet the latest regulations and that can cost a bomb.

It’s the mix of expenses that prevents work being done even just working on one building and having to leave another till the first one completed.

As for empty office buildings or shops. There are a few here in Harrogate empty, Debenhams being one and it’s probably going to be flats as has the Littlewoods, River Island building on the towns Main Street. The WFH adds huge problems to shopping centres etc.

Greatly reduced footfall in shops, fewer people going into Cafe’s etc. therefore a decline which can only get worse.

In France we saw the rapid decline of one big town because a retail group of store opened on the outskirts.

Over about 5 years the old town centre sort of died reducing to about a third of is size in that time.

If you take away one of a farmers fields you run the danger of making the whole farm unviable. Field rotation very very important.

I could go on But!

Allan C.

Re: Liz I suspect you know very little about the construction industry

Posted by Brian on 4/8/2024, 16:20:11, in reply to "Liz I suspect you know very little about the construction industry "

There's houses that have stood empty for decades in every large city l, one of the biggest problems is locating the owner, some have died, some have moved abroad plus a myriad of other reasons, it impedes the purchase and quite often stops it. Quite a few local authorities have tried it and have met with limited success as the work involved isn't usually cost effective

Re: To build 370,000 houses in a year is that possible ? All B.S. ?

Posted by Flora on 6/8/2024, 19:18:45, in reply to "Re: To build 370,000 houses in a year is that possible ? All B.S. ?"

Agree with you 100% Liz.

Re: To build 370,000 houses in a year is that possible ? All B.S. ?

Posted by Norman on 4/8/2024, 10:28:10, in reply to "To build 370,000 houses in a year is that possible ? All B.S. ?"

Pre-Fabricated homes could be produced
again,and more efficient than those post ww2 ones.
Why do we need 370,000 houses built? is it for all the Invaders flooding over for an easy life.

Norman pre fabricated housing

Posted by Allan Campbell on 4/8/2024, 11:31:42, in reply to "Re: To build 370,000 houses in a year is that possible ? All B.S. ?"

Yes you could but they would have to be too a very high standard and therefore very expensive I think.

The possible problem is, would they be acceptable to buyers and mortgage providers.

How they were manufactured and materials used are new regulations required.

We older folk remember the prefabs near High Lane Row and maybe that puts us Off.

However the same problem arises the manpower to make and assemble them etc.

Whatever way houses are to be produced it comes back to manpower. 370,000 ain’t going to happen full stop.

Some years ago around 2000 there was a small development of 6 houses in Knaresborough of prefabricated houses and built to a very high standard including triple glazing. They were either Swedish or Danish manufactured.

We looked at them but price too high and location only 1/2 mile from our house. They never caught on for some reason, probably location being too close to the main York road.

One other problem is being able to produce the materials to build that amount of housing, you are talking more than doubling that side of the trade..

As regards immigration the Government stupidly scrubbed the Rwanda Scheme without anything to replace it, loony!

Labour have now been in power for a month and it’s been downhill all the way and that’s stuff that we have now found out, what else is hidden in the woodpile I wonder!

Way back Leslie’s started making prefabricated houses and a lot built but that did not last very long. We had moved away from Tyneside so no knowledge of what happened to the company.

Allan C.

Re: Norman pre fabricated housing

Posted by Brian on 4/8/2024, 14:14:15, in reply to "Norman pre fabricated housing "

There's a quite a range of flat pack houses available nowadays , the triple glazed, highly insulated packs are usually constructed to passivhaus standard and are as you say expensive. There's a number of UK companies that produce flat pack houses and are available in a number of styles and sizes. As they are not of traditional construction planning committees can ve a bit sniffy about them , but they can be built in a much quicker time frame, are more heat efficient as well as being tailored to a particular use before it is even erected at the manufacturer. The more thats made the more likely the prices will come down.

Re: To build 370,000 houses in a year is that possible ? All B.S. ?

Posted by Brian on 5/8/2024, 11:18:59, in reply to "Re: To build 370,000 houses in a year is that possible ? All B.S. ?"

Norman from start to moving in it can be as little as 16 weeks depending on which flat pack the use. We lost so much social housing in the 1980s with right to buy which was never replaced as local authorities couldn't use the money for new builds only refurbishment. It was why so many local authorities set up almo's(arms length management organisations) so they could build properties, some were very good and some were abysmal. Most have been taken back into local authority control as it takes away a level of administration and save money. Private landlords on the whole charge exorbitant rents compared to local authorities and housing associations and the no fault evictions make it a precarious way to rent. There's thousands of families who would take your hand off for those houses if they were available .

Private Landlords for Brian

Posted by Mac C on 5/8/2024, 11:44:56, in reply to "Re: To build 370,000 houses in a year is that possible ? All B.S. ?"

Brian.
There are some bad landlords and I include some Housing Associations in that category.
But as private Landlord I keep my rent at or below market levels and don't look for rises every year. Why? Because it is better business to keep a good tenant than get another £50 a month. Plus I have never evicted anyone MOST landlords don't!
There is nothing precarious about renting from most private Landlords.
The Marxist left of course don't see this!