Norman Dunn's 'Hebburn and our Neighbours Forum'

Norman Dunn's 'Hebburn and our Neighbours Forum'
[ Norman Dunn's 'Hebburn and our Neighbours Forum' ]

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I feel the need to rant

Posted by Malcolm on 20/10/2024, 21:26:09

There's been a lot in the press lately, about reparations about the slave trade..

In particular, several of the Carribean (Commonwealth) countries aim to demand reparation over the slave trade, amounting to trillions of pounds !!!

So, lets, go down this route..

Sparta & Athens...enslaved most of their surrounding cities..

The Roman empire, enslaved the British, amongst many others...so..Italy/Rome...PAY up!!

Just after that, the Vikings..Rape/Pillage Plunder, and enslaved us...so... Denmark/Norway... PAY UP

Just after that, The Normans, Invaded, stole our land....France...PAY UP

Where does it end?

Or is it just about black people, feeling hard done by?

Maybe those "people of colour", who's ancestors were taken as slaves would rather it hadn't happened..... so they would still be living in Africa... drought/civil wars/starvation.. Good luck with that!

Sunday night Rant over....but am I wrong?

Re: I feel the need to rant

Posted by Liz Dance on 20/10/2024, 21:48:03, in reply to "I feel the need to rant"

Good points Malcolm, I just hope that fool Lammy doesn’t get carried away and start giving reparations out, you just don’t know what that guy will do next!!!

Re: I feel the need to rant

Posted by Norman on 20/10/2024, 22:21:03, in reply to "Re: I feel the need to rant"

Well said Malcolm.
LAMMY should tell his Carribean friends that the people who supplied slaves to the traders were fellow Africans.The rich land owners who used the slaves in the West are long dead so they escaped any justice.
Todays generations knew nothing about their ancestors so are innocent and owe them nothing.
Hundreds of years ago we were treated as slaves by rich land owners. 7 yr old children working down coal mines. Wages paid with tokens to spend in the mine owners shop etc etc.
People still pay people like the Ellison
family money cos Ellisons still own the freehold of their homes.

Re: I feel the need to rant

Posted by John Shearer on 20/10/2024, 23:01:34, in reply to "Re: I feel the need to rant"

I. still don't know why we give the subject the time of day. I would give them ALL the opportunity to got home.

Re: I feel the need to rant

Posted by Brian on 20/10/2024, 23:51:02, in reply to "Re: I feel the need to rant"

The slavery trade as abhorrent as it was but in a lot of cases people were taken captive by their own or nearby tribes and sold to traders. It was an established thing that was in place for years before the Europeans turned up,tribes took slaves routinely from other tribes, in battle and also from families within their own tribes. This seems to be forgotten.

Re: I feel the need to rant

Posted by Sheila on 21/10/2024, 8:39:20, in reply to "Re: I feel the need to rant"

It was dreadful, to think about it, but their ancestors are living better lives than those living in some African countries today. All those going on about their African heritage, I bet would not go back and live there. Sadly we read we still have slaves in this country today, brought in by immigrants.

Norman WHY

Posted by Allan Campbell on 21/10/2024, 8:40:08, in reply to "Re: I feel the need to rant"

Why bring the Ellison Family into this thread. That’s just not on.

Every piece of land in the U.K. is owned by someone, a householder a landlord or whatever.

Not happy at all with you.
Retract your post.
A very disappointed Allan Campbell

Re: Norman WHY

Posted by Norman on 21/10/2024, 9:13:48, in reply to "Norman WHY"

I brought the Ellison family into this because they were our wealthy 'Lords of the Manor' who owned the mines where little children worked and died. They owned the shop where the poor workers used their wages, which wasnt money but tokens that could only be spent in their shop.
You have some nerve telling me to retract the truth of how these people grew rich that way.

Re: Norman WHY

Posted by Allan Campbell on 21/10/2024, 11:26:23, in reply to "Re: Norman WHY"

The life in mining communities. That was the way life was back in those days all over the country.

Also in all forms of industry look at the life of Mill workers etc.

It was not slavery, hard very hard and very unfair.

We can do nowt about it. Get over it!

If it wasn’t for the Ellison family you would not exist nor would I and probably all the people that come on this board.

If you or anyone lives in a house that they do not own the freehold for that’s their choice.

I know a member of the Ellison family as he bought a business off a friend of ours. This chap is a good lad trying to make some money as we all used to do.

Allan C.

Re: Norman WHY

Posted by Sheila on 21/10/2024, 13:07:47, in reply to "Re: Norman WHY"

Alan, your post is confusing. You say, if it wasn’t for the Ellison family I would not exist. Neither of my parents came from Hebburn. In fact I was the only sibling born in Hebburn.

Re: Norman WHY

Posted by Jim Gemmell on 21/10/2024, 13:44:03, in reply to "Re: Norman WHY"

Great post Malcolm but Allan can’t agree with your perspective with regards to what we owe the Ellison family and your demand to Norman to retract his post is a joke.

Re: For Jim

Posted by Malcolm on 21/10/2024, 14:35:40, in reply to "Re: Norman WHY"

Jim, I never mentioned the Ellison Family (that was Norman)

And I didn't demand that Norman retract his post (that was Allan C)

For Malcolm

Posted by Sheila on 21/10/2024, 14:57:44, in reply to "Re: For Jim"

Malcolm, re read Jims post.

Re: For Sheila

Posted by Malcolm on 21/10/2024, 15:23:11, in reply to "For Malcolm"

Hi Sheila, I did, several times...Quote:

Great post Malcolm but Allan can’t agree with your (referring to me?)perspective with regards to what we owe the Ellison family and your (again referring to me?) demand to Norman to retract his post is a joke.

Re: For Sheila

Posted by Sheila on 21/10/2024, 16:00:02, in reply to "Re: For Sheila"

Malcolm I read it as , Great post Malcolm, (he enjoyed your post) Then for Alan, he couldn’t agree what Alan had posted and Alan’s demand Norman remove it. I might be wrong, but that is how I read it.
Sorry try if I read it incorrectly.

to explain my post

Posted by Allan Campbell on 21/10/2024, 21:07:19, in reply to "Re: Norman WHY"

Norman linked the Ellison Family into the thread about "slavery", that got my goat.

None of the coal Miners were slaves. They worked down the mines of their own choice (probably very little choice) . The miners took their children down to earn extra money for the family. Of course they may well have not had a choice about going down the mines or any other industry. My Morris family were Copper Furnace men from Swansea area the 1780's up in 19084 when one came up to Tyneside to work in the Tharsis ? Copper works in 1884.

Up to say the 1950's it was "sort" of expected that a son would follow his father into the same industry.

That kind of thing happened in all industries at that time. The worst would be the various Mills around the country.

In no way were these people slaves but conditions were very harsh indeed and to call them slaves demeans those hard worked folk.

Many in the various industries switched to other trades.

I have no idea how involved the Ellison Family were involved with the Hebburn Mines, yes they owned the land where the mines were and would probably be paid a % of what was extracted.

The Ellison family may not have owned the pits but could have leased the land. There would I expect be various shareholders of the mines.

The big pit disaster of 1835 killed 4 of my family and the same pit killed about 2-3 others of family in other accident's plus some very young people.

That pit was working from Walker/Wallsend to Under Hebburn.

WE today cannot know how things were back then so our perception is flawed.
The last 4 lines of Normans post I take exception at the earlier part OK.
Allan C.

Children down the mines and in shipyards

Posted by Allan Campbell on 21/10/2024, 21:37:58, in reply to "to explain my post "

Plenty on the internet about restrictions on the ages of children in the pits. Changes in the Law to restrict Young ones.

I was 15 when starting in Palmers and maybe Dad was of a similar age going into Reyrolle’s.

My Grandfather Campbell started into Leslie’s at about 12 years I understand but don’t know exactly. His father got him into the yard and also his two brothers and sister as they grew up.

This youngsters in dangerous work places have a look at shipbraking in India and other places probably just as bad as 150 years ago here!

Allan C.

For Malcolm

Posted by Jim Gemmell on 21/10/2024, 22:06:57, in reply to "Children down the mines and in shipyards"

Just in case you didn’t see my earlier reply, which should have shown your name as opposed to (no subject)

Re: Children down the mines and in shipyards

Posted by Davy on 22/10/2024, 0:24:43, in reply to "Children down the mines and in shipyards"

Don't think ellison brought out to hebburn andrew Leslie did and Mr reyrolle did,still think its a disgrace that the homes built on reyrolles grounds is named after Catholic saints.

(no subject)l

Posted by Sheila on 21/10/2024, 8:54:07, in reply to "Re: I feel the need to rant"

Norman, I do know many years ago, the people in Hebburn were offered the chance to buy their leasehold from the Ellison family at a very small fee.

Sadly lots of new house builders are now selling their houses leasehold, then selling the lease to a management company who are increasing the charges. Some people were saying they can’t re sell their homes as the lease is so expensive.

Re: (no subject)l

Posted by JimGemmell on 21/10/2024, 18:57:24, in reply to "(no subject)l"

Malcom, sorry if I confused you but Sheila’s interpretation is correct and as I intended. Totally in support of your rant but totally opposed to Allan’s comments. Thank you Sheila too.

Re: (no subject)l

Posted by Malcolm on 21/10/2024, 22:41:17, in reply to "Re: (no subject)l"

Hi Jim, and thanks. I DID re-read it, and again, so thrice, finally got it, and thanks.

And thanks to Sheila, too. X

To round this thread out

Posted by Malcolm on 21/10/2024, 22:56:04, in reply to "I feel the need to rant"

Bottom line is: you can't apply laws retrospectively.

So, for clarity, pass a law, e.g. you can't drink alcohol in public, as of today.

So you cannot prosecute someone you did it yesterday, because yesterday, it wasn't illegal.

Slavery, as abhorrent as it was, was actually LEGAL.

So, to demand reparations, suggests that someone broke the law, which ISN'T the case.

And the suggestion by some International Courts that there is a case to answer is beyond ridiculous.

Case of lawyers (again) seeing a future cash-cow!

Re: To round this thread out

Posted by Norman on 22/10/2024, 11:07:00, in reply to "To round this thread out"

Well said Malcolm.
Todays people were not around when their ancestors broke laws hundreds of years ago so we dont need to pay reparation. Common sense!.

Re: To round this thread out

Posted by Brian on 22/10/2024, 12:46:16, in reply to "Re: To round this thread out"

The only people who got reparation were the slave owners who were given the equivalent of billions in today's money. I believe the government spending was still affected by the payments into the 20th century .

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[ Norman Dunn's 'Hebburn and our Neighbours Forum' ]

Rules! No Party Politics,swearing,derogatory remarks or we will delete. Anyone sharing our content on Face Book must credit 'Hebburn and our Neighbours'.