Religion and Ethics BBS

Religion and Ethics BBS
[ Religion and Ethics BBS ]

In religion is it necessary to claim absolute rightness?

Posted by Trish on June 19, 2025, 3:40 pm

Because i understand the nature of faith i am carefull to separate what I believe and what I know. Yet over and over again people make grandiose, sometimes judgemental, statements implying ultimate truth

I don't get the need to do so. There is no way I understand all the workings of the universe let alone higher powers. I doubt ANY human can make such a claim.

I understand deeply held beliefs feel wholly real but that is subjective. For example, I believe in ghosts and in several experiences I have had. Nonetheless,I know I cannot prove it. I can only recount the experience.

Why is it so hard for people to handle religion this way? It would certainly diminish hatred (or one would hope)

Why isn't it okay to say, "this is what I believe. This is why" and then let the conversation evolve?

I admire your patience.

Posted by Mugwump on June 20, 2025, 9:49 am, in reply to "In religion is it necessary to claim absolute rightness?"

It sometimes seems infinite, often in the face of responses that appear reasoned but when examined prove hollow.

That question suggests the ultimate question:

Posted by observe on June 20, 2025, 9:26 am, in reply to "In religion is it necessary to claim absolute rightness?"

Is there such a thing as truth?

Then that begets arguments re the limits of truth.

The end result is the choices people make re these questions.

It’s my belief that history itself and the Bible primarily are objective proofs of truth, whereas the “whole cloth” arguments
contradicting them are in fact the colossal examples of subjectivity.

ya know the saying, History is written by the victor?

Posted by Trish on June 20, 2025, 12:08 pm, in reply to "That question suggests the ultimate question:"

There is revisionist history out there everywhere. So you need to do due dilligence in comparative research.

But since history has happened, we can say things like WW2 happened and know it to be true.

Matters of faith are a wholly different critter. I understand that some people think their faith is the absolute truth when in fact it's wholly subjective. What makes your idea of God "right" (so to speak)?

I see God as a multi-sided crystal. What you see depends on where you stand. It makes sense that people with brown skin would thin of God as having brown skin... after all, don't we look like our parents (in this case a Sacred Parent)?

God is genderless - it must be so to be the God of all people. As for the level of interaction this being has with people - that question is still on the table for greater thought.

Also

Posted by observer on June 22, 2025, 12:16 am, in reply to "ya know the saying, History is written by the victor?"

my major complaint with trying to communicate with you, Trish, is that your arguments are not clear cogent cohesive or cogent. It just seems like you just regurgitate whatever comes to mind given your mood, rather than make sense. It’s as if you have a hat full of thoughts and just grab a few out and post ‘em to see if they’ll fly.

Having a lot of varied information is useless if it can’t be presented in a meaningful way. It’s like having a kitchen full of edibles with no idea or recipe of how to prepare them to make a delicious soup, stew, meal, whatever.

You are likable. You are bright. You work hard and I admire your perseverance, but what you do with information is mind boggling to me.

wow you and scott are on an insult roll

Posted by Trish on June 22, 2025, 8:46 am, in reply to "Also"

please feel free to NOT read my posts...they appear to challenge your brain.

Re: wow you and scott are on an insult roll

Posted by observer on June 22, 2025, 9:53 am, in reply to "wow you and scott are on an insult roll"

Apparently your reading comprehension is also challenged!

Reread what you wrote

Posted by trish on June 22, 2025, 1:15 pm, in reply to "Re: wow you and scott are on an insult roll"

What's challenged is their abillity to accept that their beliefs

Posted by Mugwump on June 22, 2025, 9:51 am, in reply to "wow you and scott are on an insult roll"

aren't superior to those of anyone who doesn't share them.
They believe that anything that does not conform is heretical, and since the root of the word is simply "choice"
it offends (or frightens?) them. You're not supposed to have a choice. You either prostrate yourself to their belief system or else. But they love everyone. That's why they torment others instead of just taking a pill. What they challenge is the right to think differently from them.

It ain’t over ‘til it’s over.

Posted by observer on June 21, 2025, 11:52 am, in reply to "ya know the saying, History is written by the victor?"

What I believe and what I know is not my opinion, but the Word of God, the Bible, understood by the influence of the Holy Spirit, and study based not on tradition, but hermeneutics whereby the Bible is understood by its own narrative - language, grammar, context, genre of the specific books, culture, audience being addressed, etc. It’s not a mere “Sunday sit and soak” mentality, but a sincere desire for a relationship with God, not the mere accumulation of knowledge without the benefit of wisdom.

And so for the “history” the Bible says that the future includes a time when “every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord” and I believe it because of the sovereignty of God. I also believe it because of what He does in my life and the lives of other believers

The question presented was "Is it necessary to CLAIM" absolute rightness"?

Posted by Mugwump on June 20, 2025, 9:58 am, in reply to "That question suggests the ultimate question:"

Leaving room for behavior one might term courteous, humble or, dare I say it, polite...

That depends on whether or not Truth is basic to understanding.

Posted by observer on June 20, 2025, 10:07 am, in reply to "The question presented was "Is it necessary to CLAIM" absolute rightness"?"

Yoou seem determined to conflate belief & knowlege.

Posted by Mugwump on June 20, 2025, 10:11 am, in reply to "That depends on whether or not Truth is basic to understanding."

Since that strikes me as irrational (and rude in context) there's nothing for us to discuss.

Not bowing to another’s narrative is not of itself rude nor irrational.

Posted by observer on June 20, 2025, 10:29 am, in reply to "Yoou seem determined to conflate belief & knowlege."

It is in fact a God given right, one which the godless depend on for their voices to be heard.

"the godless"

Posted by Skye on June 21, 2025, 7:19 am, in reply to "Not bowing to another’s narrative is not of itself rude nor irrational."

Might that be you?

Because if you do not subscribe to the "right" god, scriptures or understanding of such... you may well be judged by others as being "godless."

The Romans considered Christians to be atheists.

Posted by Mugwump on June 21, 2025, 7:45 am, in reply to ""the godless""

So much for absolutes!

Some would say....

Posted by Skye on June 21, 2025, 8:01 am, in reply to "The Romans considered Christians to be atheists."

"I only believe in one less god than you."

You seem to deny there’s such a thing as Truth.

Posted by observer on June 20, 2025, 10:25 am, in reply to "Yoou seem determined to conflate belief & knowlege."

When it comes to word games, I much prefer Scrabble.

Posted by Mugwump on June 20, 2025, 11:56 am, in reply to "You seem to deny there’s such a thing as Truth."

Are you equating "Truth" with "fact"?

Yes she is

Posted by Trish on June 22, 2025, 8:52 am, in reply to "When it comes to word games, I much prefer Scrabble."

and will continue to do so, no matter how illogical. Perhaps it's fear that keeps her clinging to a presumption that her faith, her book, her god, are all factual and wholly correct, and everyone else in the world who does not believe likewise is somehow a lesser being (oh, never quite says as much, but the underlying ripple is certainly there).

She appears not to be...oh what was that word ... cogent.

Re: When it comes to word games, I much prefer Scrabble.

Posted by observer on June 20, 2025, 1:43 pm, in reply to "When it comes to word games, I much prefer Scrabble."

No, truth is far greater. A fact is merely one element of it.

Simple answer

Posted by Benny on June 20, 2025, 5:34 am, in reply to "In religion is it necessary to claim absolute rightness?"

No!

Good questions, I believe religion has too much dogma.

Posted by Ken C on June 19, 2025, 8:52 pm, in reply to "In religion is it necessary to claim absolute rightness?"

To many people choose just one church. They keep going to just that one church without studying other religions. They surround themselves with like minded believers.

I think people should spend more time exploring other ideas and other beliefs.

One of my goals for this board is to have a variety of beliefs and variety of values. That causes conflicts, but it gives people a chance to explore new beliefs.

Good Thoughts, Ken C!!!

Posted by Deanna on June 20, 2025, 10:24 am, in reply to "Good questions, I believe religion has too much dogma."

I totally agree!!! And I had done so and continue to do so...I found that the First Presbyterian Church was my church....but, appreciate many others too...

And some are not my cup of tea!!

Alas, MANY human DO make such a claim.

Posted by DFM on June 19, 2025, 8:38 pm, in reply to "In religion is it necessary to claim absolute rightness?"

Ah dear Trish, still fighting the good fight?

Posted by Dancing Digits on June 19, 2025, 7:46 pm, in reply to "In religion is it necessary to claim absolute rightness?"

You certainly have more patience than I.

In regards to your question, I have no idea why in religious matters the claim to be absolutely right is necessary. It is more likely that it is necessary for the individual who can not, for whatever the reasons may be, tolerate being wrong.

One can always hope

Posted by Trish on June 20, 2025, 7:02 am, in reply to "Ah dear Trish, still fighting the good fight? "

I just never understood the incessanct "of, course I'm right" attitude.

When I see the way science is advancing, I know I will learn some of my ideas about *something* will be proven wrong. That's okay. There is a lot of this world and universe yet to explore. Why bother even researching if you think you already have all the answers?

Well, you uncovered another claim of absolute rightness.

Posted by Mugwump on June 20, 2025, 4:07 pm, in reply to "One can always hope"

Wno evidently believes it is a necessity to make that claim

This is one of the main reasons I left the Church

Posted by Trish on June 22, 2025, 8:54 am, in reply to "Well, you uncovered another claim of absolute rightness."

When I asked questions along this vein, they were belittled and I was pretty much told to shut up.

I would think the all-mighty Oz would be able to stand up to a little discussion

You were wrong

Posted by Gustavo on June 22, 2025, 9:02 am, in reply to "This is one of the main reasons I left the Church"

for allowing anyone to interfere with your fellowship with Jesus Christ.

I have a very strong bond with Jesus Christ. I pray every morning and talk to him. I receive answers and guidance.

Why would I let anyone interfere. I encounter atheists everyday who are critical.

Oh I still talk to god

Posted by trish on June 23, 2025, 11:40 am, in reply to "You were wrong"

I am just no longer a Christian. God doesn't need temples or even specific words. You can chat with it anywhere you wish, without religious constraints

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