Religion and Ethics and Health BBS

Religion and Ethics and Health BBS
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How "New Atheism" fizzled

Posted by BornToFarm on January 30, 2026, 1:43 pm

Not with a Bang: How the New Atheism Fizzled
Denyse O’Leary September 30, 2024

At one time, the New Atheism was riding a wave! Richard Dawkins, for example, was Cool.

Two decades ago, he and renowned philosopher Daniel Dennett (1942–2024), journalist Christopher Hitchens (1949–2011), and neuroscientist Sam Harris were the Four Horsemen of the (New Atheist) apocalypse.

From the publisher of the book The Four Horsemen (Random House Penguin 2007):

"At the dawn of the new atheist movement, the thinkers who became known as “the four horsemen,” the heralds of religion’s unraveling — Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Daniel Dennett — sat down together over cocktails. What followed was a rigorous, pathbreaking, and enthralling exchange, which has been viewed millions of times since it was first posted on YouTube. This is intellectual inquiry at its best: exhilarating, funny, and unpredictable, sincere and probing, reminding us just how varied and colorful the threads of modern atheism are..

But now there is an eerie silence that fashionable media are beginning to notice.

It didn’t help that Hitchens and Dennett are deceased. But what’s significant is that they were not replaced.

Was it just a flash in the pan that Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Muslim turned atheist, hung out with the remaining Horsemen for a while? She then became a Christian.

Something Seems to Have Fizzled

It’s not clear that the public is more religious so something else must have happened.

Possibly, people look at the fine-tuning of the universe and realize that there is a God, whether they like it or not. That’s what converted eminent atheist Antony Flew (1923–2010) some years back and he called his subsequent book There Is a God (HarperOne 2008).

I wrote about the decline earlier this year, noting that the void is starting to be filled by people like “Professor Dave” who, unlike Dawkins and Dennett, is not a professor, nor even a PhD.

Atheism’s Suicide Problem

What I hadn’t run across then was that atheism also has a suicide problem, which certainly won’t help with numbers. At the Huffington Post, Staks Rosch, “a vocal atheist, humanist, progressive, and Jedi” noted, back in 2017:

"Depression is a serious problem with in the greater atheist community and far too often, that depression has led to suicide. This is something many of my fellow atheists often don’t like to admit, but it is true. I know a lot of atheists, myself included, would all like to believe that atheists are happier people than religious believers and in many ways we are. But we also have to accept the reality that in some very important ways we are not.

December 8, 2017

Characteristically, Rosch blamed people who are not atheists:

"There are of course many valid reasons why atheists are sometimes more prone to suicide than religious believers. Interestingly enough, one of those reasons is religious believers themselves. We live in a world dominated by people who often fervently believe ancient superstitions and who many times demonize, harass, ostracize, and disown those who lack belief in those ancient superstitions. Atheists on the receiving end of this treatment are understandably stressed and isolated. They often experience anxiety and depression as a result.

December 8, 2017

Apparently, atheism does not provide much of a basis for standing up to persecution, even in countries where many have laid down their lives for the right of others to believe whatever they want to.

Trendy Media Have Begun Picking Up on New Atheism’s Waning

At The Atlantic, Ross Andersen writes about Dawkins’s final lecture tour of the United States this fall:

"Dawkins seems to have lost his sense of proportion. Now that mainstream culture has moved on from big debates about evolution and theism, he no longer has a prominent foe that so perfectly suits his singular talent for explaining the creative power of biology. And so he’s playing whack-a-mole, swinging full strength, and without much discernment, at anything that strikes him as even vaguely irrational. His fans at the Warner Theatre didn’t seem to mind. For all I know, some of them had come with the sole intent of hearing Dawkins weigh in on the latest campus disputes and cancellations. After he took his last bow, the lights went out, and I tried to understand what I was feeling. I didn’t leave the show offended. I wasn’t upset. It was something milder than that. I was bored.

“Richard Dawkins Keeps Shrinking”

Not Woke

But Andersen’s real concern, it turns out, is that Dawkins is not Woke. He does not think, for example, that Maori beliefs should be taught in science class. Andersen, finger in the wind, takes issue with that. The Woke, it turns out, are no more tolerant of atheists than they are of anyone else with non-Woke views. That may be what finally fells the New Atheism.

https://scienceandculture.com/2024/09/not-with-a-bang-how-new-atheism-fizzled/

"There is no God and Marx is his prophet." mantra of New Left.

Posted by DFM on January 31, 2026, 9:19 pm, in reply to "How "New Atheism" fizzled"

But the old atheism still exists

Posted by Christopher Blackwell on January 30, 2026, 7:47 pm, in reply to "How "New Atheism" fizzled"

BornToFarm

Atheism Chic may have passed, as Chic fads usually
does. But that is only the noisy ones out to make a name for themselves as a controversial, daring speaker. Sort of a Born Again Atheist, as they use much the same tactics as the hard core Born Again Hell Fire Christians. I have met a few such Atheist, and they are just as much a nuisance, with their silly attempts to convert others.

Most Atheists are not interested in making newly converted Atheists. Nor do they care what religion that you practice, as long as you do not bother them and their none belief.

I couldn't have said it better myself

Posted by BornToFarm on January 31, 2026, 6:17 am, in reply to "But the old atheism still exists"

There always have been and probably always will be atheists.

The in your face part doesn't work. Even Dawkins has mellowed.

And, "Turn or Burn" doesn't work well either and drives people away.

I have been an atheist since I was 6 years old.

Posted by KR on January 30, 2026, 6:34 pm, in reply to "How "New Atheism" fizzled"

I simply heard other kids my age describing what they “learned” at church and knew immediately that it didn’t make any sense.

I tried atheism for a while but I had to give it up. No Holidays.

Posted by DFM on January 31, 2026, 9:21 pm, in reply to "I have been an atheist since I was 6 years old."

I think it follows that depression would follow atheistic belief.

Posted by observer on January 30, 2026, 4:05 pm, in reply to "How "New Atheism" fizzled"

Belief in God’s Word, to the contrary, is the epitome of hope.
Without hope no one has reason to feel great!

Only for those that need to believe in something more than physical reality to be happy.

Posted by KR on January 31, 2026, 3:32 pm, in reply to "I think it follows that depression would follow atheistic belief."

I have always been an atheist. I have never felt depressed, even when dealing with serious personal issues (like cancer).

you do not have to believe in god to have hope

Posted by trish on January 31, 2026, 7:42 am, in reply to "I think it follows that depression would follow atheistic belief."

They hope for a better future for their children just like everyone else

They hope for good health, safety, family harmony.

BTW "hope" comes from Old English hopa (noun) and hopian (verb), meaning expectation or confidence

Why…

Posted by mark on February 7, 2026, 9:04 pm, in reply to "you do not have to believe in god to have hope"

….the definition? It means that in the Bible also. But it it is an expectation and confidence of eternal life.

because I love etymology

Posted by trish on February 8, 2026, 7:00 am, in reply to "Why…"

There is hope and there is hope.

Posted by observer on January 31, 2026, 9:48 am, in reply to "you do not have to believe in god to have hope"

Temporal hope doesn’t satisfy spiritual needs.

that simply is not true particularly since not everyone has "spiritual Needs"

Posted by trish on February 1, 2026, 10:16 am, in reply to "There is hope and there is hope."

If someone isn't fulfilled by the wonder and excitement of life itself.

Posted by Mugwump on February 10, 2026, 7:21 am, in reply to "that simply is not true particularly since not everyone has "spiritual Needs""

I'd say he or she is a lost cause from the get-go.

Why do you say not everyone has spiritual needs?

Posted by observer on February 9, 2026, 11:45 am, in reply to "that simply is not true particularly since not everyone has "spiritual Needs""

It’s a universally accepted fact that humans have those needs.
Not everyone expresses them with religion. Christianity posits that Christ and Christ alone fully meets those needs.

For that to be "universally accepted," wouldn't there need to be...

Posted by 7:77 on February 13, 2026, 7:17 am, in reply to "Why do you say not everyone has spiritual needs?"

...a similarly-universal definition of "spiritual?" To get a definition of that term that's reasonably objective and not frustratingly vague is often a big ask; a universally-accepted one seems impossible.

because they do not

Posted by trish on February 9, 2026, 4:13 pm, in reply to "Why do you say not everyone has spiritual needs?"

if one doesn't believe in having a "spirit" then one has no spiritual needs

as with god, having a spirit cannot be proven. It simpy isn't part of everyone's wheelhouse

You could say you didn’t have a liver, too, but that wouldn’t

Posted by observer on February 9, 2026, 4:38 pm, in reply to "because they do not"

make it so. You’re always suggesting that others avail themselves of information you favor. YOU need to avail yourself of the established fact re the spiritual needs of all humans, not just more Trish trying to nail Jello to a tree and calling it fact.

you can prove a liver. You cannot prove spirit.

Posted by trish on February 10, 2026, 7:59 am, in reply to "You could say you didn’t have a liver, too, but that wouldn’t"

Well it is an accepted term in the field of psychology whether Trish

Posted by observer on February 10, 2026, 11:40 am, in reply to "you can prove a liver. You cannot prove spirit."

agrees or both.

Many people have no "spiritual needs".

Posted by KR on January 31, 2026, 3:32 pm, in reply to "There is hope and there is hope."

Wrong again!

Posted by observer on February 9, 2026, 11:46 am, in reply to "Many people have no "spiritual needs"."

Not acknowledging those needs is not the same as not having them.

Believing in them is one thing

Posted by trish on February 9, 2026, 4:15 pm, in reply to "Wrong again!"

it is (as you know) a matter of faith

not everyone believes in having a spirit. You cannot prove people have a spirit. Just as with god - you cannot prove there is one, nor can anyone prove there is not

How is this so difficult for you.

Denial, yours in this case, does not indicate the facts.p

Posted by observer on February 9, 2026, 4:40 pm, in reply to "Believing in them is one thing"

Do your homework, Trish. Your belief isn’t fact. All human beings have spiritual needs whether you accept it or not.

Belief is NEVER fact

Posted by trish on February 10, 2026, 7:49 am, in reply to "Denial, yours in this case, does not indicate the facts.p"

get YOU linguistics straight.

You cannot prove spirit
I cannot disprove spirit

And even if you could, you still cannot say everyone has spiritual needs.

I don’t think everyone has the capacity to live a spiritual life, nor is everyone meant to. Some people should (or must) focus on being worldly without incorporating spirituality, magic, or religion. And there’s not a damn thing wrong with that.

You often say silly things.

Posted by observer on February 12, 2026, 12:36 pm, in reply to "Belief is NEVER fact"

Things like, “Belief is never fact.” Care to reword that or do you want to stand by the suggestion you’ve made.

At most, I might qualify that slightly:

Posted by 7:77 on February 13, 2026, 7:23 am, in reply to "You often say silly things."

Something like: "belief is never proven fact." Once proof that a statement of fact is certainly true is established, belief become unnecessary (and perhaps even impossible). Belief that such a statement is true in the absence of proof is not knowledge ("justified true belief") even if the statement is in fact true. The establishment of Gettier cases demonstrates this quite convincingly.

By definition, belief doesn't become fact until proven empirically

Posted by Trish on February 12, 2026, 2:50 pm, in reply to "You often say silly things."

but you knew that

in the context of Religion this is particularly important to separate.

I can say I believe in ghosts all I want, but ghosts can't be proven. So they remain in the belief (faith) collumn

Nothing is more pompous

Posted by observer on January 31, 2026, 9:50 am, in reply to "There is hope and there is hope."

than stating God does not exist, fact not uninformed opinion.

If your god exists, he needs to prove it. Otherwise I have logic on my side.

Posted by KR on January 31, 2026, 3:28 pm, in reply to "Nothing is more pompous"

NOW YOU KNOW

Than stating God exists (as something other than personal opinion).

Posted by Azriel on January 31, 2026, 2:40 pm, in reply to "Nothing is more pompous"

Doesn't matter how fervent one's belief or disbelief may...the claim to "know" borders on the offensive.

But what you know doesn’t offend?

Posted by observer on January 31, 2026, 2:53 pm, in reply to "Than stating God exists (as something other than personal opinion)."

Ridiculous.

The statement "god exists" is not provable any more

Posted by trish on February 1, 2026, 10:15 am, in reply to "But what you know doesn’t offend?"

than the opposite.

Get over it.

Satan's favorite line..

Posted by scott on February 8, 2026, 6:56 pm, in reply to "The statement "god exists" is not provable any more"

Please do your research on HaSatan

Posted by trish on February 9, 2026, 7:35 am, in reply to "Satan's favorite line.."

You are so far off the mark.

YOU CANNOT PROVE GOD
YOU CANNOT PROVE THERE IS NO GOD

It's simple and true.

Please do yours on Hell.

Posted by observer on February 9, 2026, 5:37 pm, in reply to "Please do your research on HaSatan"

another unprovable thing. Here's your research

Posted by trish on February 10, 2026, 7:58 am, in reply to "Please do yours on Hell."

We cannot prove hell exists empirically

We can analyze why humans across cultures developed hell concepts

We can study the psychological, social, and moral effects of belief in hell

We can debate whether the idea is coherent, just, or necessary

Hell as a concept Hell is not observable

It cannot be measured

It cannot be tested

There is no hell.

In Jewish tradition, there is no eternal punishment. BTW

Also, the word hell does not mean fire, punishment, or demons. Old English: hel / helle

Meaning: the concealed or covered place

Verb root: helan = to hide, cover, conceal

roto-Germanic: *haljō

Meaning: the underworld, hidden realm

Neutral destination of the dead, not a moral one

ndo-European root: *kel-

Meaning: to cover, conceal, hide

Your limits are not mine!

Posted by observer on February 10, 2026, 11:18 pm, in reply to "another unprovable thing. Here's your research"

and your beliefs are not mine nor do they apply to me

Posted by trish on February 11, 2026, 7:48 am, in reply to "Your limits are not mine!"

there that's settled.

In your mind perhaps!

Posted by observer on February 12, 2026, 12:24 pm, in reply to "and your beliefs are not mine nor do they apply to me"

Hardly a universal fact!

my beliefs are as valid as yours

Posted by Trish on February 12, 2026, 2:52 pm, in reply to "In your mind perhaps!"

and as deeply held.

but they are NOT the same. I wouldn't expect you to adhere to my beliefs just 'cause. That would be hypocritical

faith is a huge arguing point because of our differences and the inability to show, with proof, that all our beliefs are FACTS

call a fact a fact
call a belief a belief

why is this so hard for you?

try a dictionary it might help you catch up

Posted by trish on February 13, 2026, 6:05 am, in reply to "my beliefs are as valid as yours"

faith is faith
fact is fact

faith does not magically turn into fact because you believe in something. It must be proven

I find it amazing that a person cannot separate one from another in their writing or speech. Does it threaten you somehow to admit you might not know everything about religion?

Ha!

Posted by observer on February 12, 2026, 9:12 pm, in reply to "my beliefs are as valid as yours"

That’s hilarious. You cannot prove that.

I assert no claim that I know or can know. I, as do you, have opinion.

Posted by Azriel on January 31, 2026, 3:48 pm, in reply to "But what you know doesn’t offend?"

Period. And neither of our opinions are superior on any way to that of the other. Got it?

De;ression is common among believers, even their mininsters.

Posted by Christopher Blackwell on January 30, 2026, 8:10 pm, in reply to "I think it follows that depression would follow atheistic belief."

Observer, that is a strange thing to say considering how common depression is among believers in most religions, including the ministers.

I have had friends that were Christian Ministers and the stress of being on call all the time, living in a glass bowl, being constantly watched and harshly judged, also dealing with the constant in fighting of the people in church politics.

Naturally, they cannot discuss their dismay with their congregations, as they could get thrown out of their churches. So not being a Christian, I seem to have been chosen to hear their worry and frustration, because I am good and not telling anyone, I could serve as their father confessors.

Re: De;ression is common among believers, even their mininsters.

Posted by observer on January 30, 2026, 9:38 pm, in reply to "De;ression is common among believers, even their mininsters."

True that some believers suffer from depression. Whether or not it’s clinical depression or garden variety is significant. But the point is, those who trust in God’s Word have hope, hope that atheists do not have. What they do with that hope i can vary.

hope that atheists do not have.

Posted by Christopher Blackwell on January 31, 2026, 9:06 am, in reply to "Re: De;ression is common among believers, even their mininsters."

Observer, what in the world do you base that fantasy on? Amazing all the pompous assumptions from some believers

They have hope based on all that they have overcome in their life.

And when they don’t overcome,

Posted by observeri on January 31, 2026, 2:52 pm, in reply to "hope that atheists do not have."

then what?

Re: And when they don’t overcome,

Posted by Christopher Blackwell on January 31, 2026, 9:47 pm, in reply to "And when they don’t overcome,"

Observer, the same thing that happens when their many prayers go unanswered. I have seen even ministers lose their faith. Those are the unfortunate ones.

As they say, life is unfair. Good and bad hit us mostly whether we are good or evil. Often the hard part is figuring if what hits us is good or bad. Only then we still must figure out how to deal with whatever it is.

Like so many of our older members, I have a fair number of health issues. Several of them should have killed and are quite likely to kill me in the future, if I don't get surprised and killed off by something that I have not yet experienced. Aging, increased limits of what I can do, and the process of dying makes a fascinating study. I take an ever-increasing number of medications, none that will heal me, only hopefully delay actual dying, provided that their interactions don't prove lethal.

I am always rather fascinated to still exist. So far I have survived my issues thirty-three years. Late night posting often go in strange directions whhich is why I do not do them too often.Three hours past my usual bedtime.

Belief in your god is simply weakness, desperation and ignorance.

Posted by KR on January 30, 2026, 6:36 pm, in reply to "I think it follows that depression would follow atheistic belief."

Strong people will never need it. Weak people may find comfort in it, but it doesn’t actually help them become strong.

Now you know.

You can’t know that.

Posted by observer on January 30, 2026, 9:41 pm, in reply to "Belief in your god is simply weakness, desperation and ignorance."

And I know you can’t know that. You don’t even KNOW how stupid your posts are.

I believe that based on my life experience.

Posted by KR on January 31, 2026, 3:55 pm, in reply to "You can’t know that."

I can’t prove it, nor do I care to take the time to try. Faith is something that just seems useless to me. I have no need for anything beyond my short life on this earth, and I have no evidence to make me think anything more exists.

Have you ever once thought that perhaps your experience

Posted by observer on February 9, 2026, 11:48 am, in reply to "I believe that based on my life experience."

might just be lacking evidence?

have you?

Posted by trish on February 9, 2026, 4:15 pm, in reply to "Have you ever once thought that perhaps your experience"

Yes, that’s why I am a Christian.

Posted by observe on February 9, 2026, 4:43 pm, in reply to "have you?"

Left to only my experience, I’d be an atheist, but never a pagan, or other fence sitter.

In my experience...

Posted by Skye on February 10, 2026, 8:25 am, in reply to "Yes, that’s why I am a Christian."

I have never seen anyone walk on water or raise up out of their grave after death. I've never seen Santa and his reindeer fly across the sky, either.

I would think most people would tend to doubt such outlandish claims or stories, unless they have been taught to or have some kind of emotional reason or investment in doing so... such as fear of death, consequences, or reality they don't want to face or accept.

You can believe whatever you want, or whatever makes you feel better in what you hope for... but that doesn't make your beliefs, hopes or opinions true any more than anyone else's.

At least "fence sitters" don't have such hubris to claim that they 'know' what they do not know.

If your choice brings contentment and the challenge to

Posted by trish on February 10, 2026, 8:01 am, in reply to "Yes, that’s why I am a Christian."

be a better person daily, then I am glad for you.

I will never be a Christian again. I might consider Judaism, Buddhism, or Taoism

You depress me.

Posted by GOG on January 30, 2026, 7:02 pm, in reply to "Belief in your god is simply weakness, desperation and ignorance."

You entertain me, because morons are funny.

Posted by KR on January 30, 2026, 7:55 pm, in reply to "You depress me. "

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