Religion and Ethics and Health BBS

Religion and Ethics and Health BBS
[ Religion and Ethics and Health BBS ]

Why do we value the artificial?

Posted by Maverick on May 31, 2026, 7:32 pm

No auto-tune, no pitch correction, no razzle dazzle special effects, no pyrotech.

World War II era had some great ones.

It seems to me that the more artificial effects increase

Posted by observER on June 1, 2026, 1:17 pm, in reply to "Why do we value the artificial?"

the less talent there is; that is, as dependence on and use of technology increases the natural abilities decrease, a trade off.
There was a saying that repeating an exercise10,000 times brought perfection. If this is true, it follows that over dependence on technology results in lesser human ability. The first hint I remember was the discussion when Texas Instruments made the pocket calculator which then became controversial when used in classrooms. The arguments for and against ran both ways but the nation’s. decline in math scores does suggest that something has changed and something is VERY wrong.

When machines do things for us the need for us to do

Posted by Maverick on June 1, 2026, 4:18 pm, in reply to "It seems to me that the more artificial effects increase"

for ourselves is removed. That goes for the development of physical skills and for skills of the mind like using imagination to fill in the blanks. We don't need imagination now. Special effects does it for us. I think that contributes to the decline of creativity.

Fortunately, most of my music listening is to genres less affected by these trends.

Posted by 7:77 on June 2, 2026, 8:17 am, in reply to "When machines do things for us the need for us to do"

I have a pretty wide range of music that I like to listen to and play (I play violin). But for the most part that doesn't incorporate a lot of big record label pop, which along with "major label" country, is probably the most afflicted with high-tech manipulation of the recordings. You never hear that stuff in classical or jazz music, and almost never in metal or prog. And perhaps surprisingly, almost never (except as a deliberate special effect) in the insane Japanese alt-idol* world or in art-pop (think: Kate Bush, Bjork, Oomori Seiko...).

Heh...just imagine hearing pitch correction or suchlike on an Ella Fitzgerald recording! People would riot.

* The regular, mainstream idol scene's take on pop is about as artificial and plastic as imaginable (awful stuff...), but the underground "alt-idol" scene, particularly in parts of Tokyo, has some brilliant songwriting and mind-blowing musicianship. Maybe the best prog-metal song of the last five years or more anywhere is a 14-minute epic by alt-idols Broken by the Scream, "Remembrance of Nazca." Who'da thunk?

Pop music is a fraud.

Posted by Maverick on June 2, 2026, 9:38 am, in reply to "Fortunately, most of my music listening is to genres less affected by these trends."

Most of it sounds alike. That's because there are the same people behind the scenes creating this stuff to be put out there as if the performer is the genius doing it all. Yeah sure. Can you say Jack Antonoff? Can you say Red Light Management?

It's about what the market wants. It's about the money and what sells and not about the artistry. It's boring. The performers have become boring. GOG mentioned Taylor Swift. She's guilty of it too. Out comes the performer gyrating around and showing as much skin as possible or acting bad-ass. Look how sexy I look. Look how tough I am with all these muscles and tatts. Nothing wrong with tatts if you like them but come on. Isn't there something else, something different to offer the audience? Can we have something different people? I can almost predict what I will see. Why do people fall for it and even more a mystery to me why do they buy it? I don't get it.

And then comes the prerecorded tracks, the miming, the correcting pitch when the performer sings flat and out of tune. Go figure why people like this shit.

I totally agree. Gaga. The Met Gala. Our culture is debased.

Posted by GOG on June 3, 2026, 8:20 am, in reply to "Pop music is a fraud."

Hollywood “celebrities. Fake screwed up dysfunctional narcissists.

Yes Hollywood is another illusionist.

Posted by Maverick on June 3, 2026, 12:11 pm, in reply to "I totally agree. Gaga. The Met Gala. Our culture is debased. "

The stage persona is crafted for public consumption. What walks out on stage is an entertainer, an illusionist, an actor and sometimes a talented artist. What walks off stage is a human being as flawed as the rest of us. Taylor Swift and the rest of them are a product that is created and sold. The second Swift and the rest of them no longer draw the crowds and pull in the money they will become a has-been, discarded for the next hot selling product that comes along.

The illusion can be enjoyable but many people don't keep it in the realm of illusion. They blur the line between something created and crafted and something that is real. I guess some people don't want the illusion to end. So for them it becomes a delusion. And sadly what too often sells is what is popular and not always what is talented and real. That goes for Hollywood, music, TV, talk shows, politics, the news media and businesses that try to convince us through marketing what they are selling is fantastic and will make our lives so much better. It's about getting you to give up your money to them. And if they have to lie, cheat and toss morals and ethics and dignity out the nearest window they will do it. And as long as the public shells out the money and adulation it will continue. It certainly isn't true of everyone, both entertainer and public, but true of too many as far as I see. So we have what we have.

Yep, at least the mainstream, big label stuff.

Posted by 7:77 on June 2, 2026, 9:52 am, in reply to "Pop music is a fraud."

I don't really blame the performers themselves. I mean...you're only young and beautiful once (okay, in my case at least young...), so if you have a chance to make major bank, you jump on it. But the suits in charge? Screw 'em.

The worst part, in my view, is that so many people making really good music (and no mistake: there are still countless numbers of them) have a hard time even making a very modest living at it.

Sit in Central Park NYC sometime and listen to the awesome street musicians

Posted by Maverick on June 2, 2026, 10:38 am, in reply to "Yep, at least the mainstream, big label stuff."

dripping with talent but who can't get anywhere because what they do won't sell. To me it speaks of the shallowness of American society.

I have literally done just that!

Posted by 7:77 on June 2, 2026, 12:05 pm, in reply to "Sit in Central Park NYC sometime and listen to the awesome street musicians"

I went to university in NYC.

These days the buskers I'm most likely to hear are plying their trade in various parts of Tokyo, but same thing: something they do to bring in a little cash (along with regular performances in small venues).

"American Society" cannot be lumped together...

Posted by Cheap Seats Shaman *= on June 2, 2026, 10:59 am, in reply to "Sit in Central Park NYC sometime and listen to the awesome street musicians"

Like any body of water, it has it's shallow parts but it also contains great depths, unexplored and distant.
🤔

Granted America contains many different peoples.

Posted by Maverick on June 2, 2026, 12:08 pm, in reply to ""American Society" cannot be lumped together..."

Its totally impractical to try and list them here and analyze each group separately as related to the subject matter. So I defaulted to generalities. Something like looking at the bigger picture. The details suffer but that would be a super long post to try and address the details which I am not necessarily well equipped to do.

Our Schools started going downhill when the DOE, Unions and gub'mint took over...

Posted by Cheap Seats Shaman *= on June 1, 2026, 2:45 pm, in reply to "It seems to me that the more artificial effects increase"

We can thank Jimmah Cahtah for that.

The education I received pre-DOE and what I see now is depressing.

Yep. Now the woke are finishing the demolition.

Posted by GOG on June 1, 2026, 7:43 pm, in reply to "Our Schools started going downhill when the DOE, Unions and gub'mint took over..."

Value, or merely utilize?

Posted by Cheap Seats Shaman *= on June 1, 2026, 10:20 am, in reply to "Why do we value the artificial?"

I certainly don't "value" artificiality, but most certainly utilize it, as does everybody.
(depending on your definition of 'value')

There's a blending between use and value but

Posted by Maverick on June 1, 2026, 2:41 pm, in reply to "Value, or merely utilize?"

money is hard to come by for many. Many spend lots of money on the artificial. I wonder how well the Andrews Sisters and their kind would do in today's world. Could they compete and do as well as they did back then? Oh they would catch attention but I wonder how much.

Get rid of pitch correction and auto-tune. Let the voices stand on their own merit.

What's wrong with looking your age? I wonder how much is spent on Botox, face lifts, implants. Many entertainers have lost their natural looks to too much plastic surgery and now look like something that has stepped out of the plastic factory. Why would anyone go under the knife unless they value the results? Nothing wrong with wanting to look your best but can you say that about everyone who has had multiple plastic surgeries?

How about the movies? Strip away the special effects, the over fast action pacing, the sci-fi stuff and what is left? Would what is left even sell all by itself?

Society values the artificial. Society spends lots of money on it. Some is OK. But its like it has taken over. Kick kids off the cell phone and computers away from the video games and AI. Boot them out the damn door and do something real like interact with real people and not artificial ones and do some hands on stuff instead of pushing keys on a board.

Some artificial stuff is OK but its over the top.

Someone could refinance a house with the money some spend on tattoos...

Posted by Cheap Seats Shaman *= on June 1, 2026, 2:52 pm, in reply to "There's a blending between use and value but "

...but they can't afford dinner.

As an example, Taylor Swift and other singers,

Posted by GOG on June 1, 2026, 4:43 am, in reply to "Why do we value the artificial?"

rumor has it , do not sing their songs, but use others with better voices. They remain anonymous. I’m not referring to back up singers.

My two cents

Posted by Maverick on June 1, 2026, 4:53 pm, in reply to "As an example, Taylor Swift and other singers,"

When someone, anyone pays to see a live performance that's exactly what they should get. If a performer wants to use auto-tune, pitch correction, miming, prerecorded backing tracks, it should be told. People have the right to know what they are paying for. If they buy tickets being fully informed that's their decision. But they should be informed.

I have no interest in buying tickets to listen to recordings. I can listen to all the recordings I want at home without the expense of insanely costly tickets.

I pay no attention to Taylor Swift.

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