I think turnovers as a defensive scheme is sustainable. The issue is, do we have anything else? *
 Previous Message we forced 28 turnovers and were 7th in the nation with a +11 turnover margin. is that sustainable? if we regress to a good TO margin instead of amazing, where do we stand? is what made us have a 6-6 season sustainable? thats what worries me Previous Message Issues that have come up repeatedly over the lovie Smith era. Poor time management, frequent confusion on the field, concerning personnel decisions, and failure to be energized to start the game/throughout the game. That this has continued through the final game of year 4 is definitely giving me pause. Do I think it means lovie isn't the guy? No, not necessarily. And also, I hope not. Previous Message i also thought it was no coincidence that he posted that "luck" chart. contrary to what most everyone here tells you, we were not among the luckier teams this year. (and i get that you can look at luck in various ways but it's such a foregone conclusion here that we lucked into a few wins, it's good to know how lazy and narrow that type of thinking is.) Previous Message given that last year’s defense was historically bad. But it certainly did improve. I’m just surprised because roughy took the long game approach for the last 4 years and held firm to allowing for the 5 year plan even when results looked terrible. And I generally agreed with that. But if you take that view all along, I’m not understanding why it’s a “stance” to sit here at the end of year 4 and be pretty concerned about some of the long-term question marks that were reinforced this past Saturday. It seems like right now is the perfect time to take a step back and make an assessment of where we’re at as a program after year 4. Or I guess maybe we should see what the bowl game looks like first. Previous Message this tweet in particular rang true: "I just don't know how to respond. By every metric - yards, point differential, regular statistics, advanced statistics, wins - we're better. I get it if people say "it's not rebuilt yet" because it's not. It needs to improve again next year. But "are we much better"? C'mon." and stance-defending is a big part of it for *some* people. you know who they are (i mean, they raise their hand every 10 seconds.) Previous Message and would like to have a civil debate with him about it. Feels like one of those things where he is misinterpreting the comments people are making, and I’m probably misinterpreting his point about stances as well. But he seems to think this is all about people wanting to be right, and at least for most people I don’t think that is the case. I agree we should watch each game and evaluate it on its own merits, not everything has to be a big picture talking point. But this NW game was the last game of the season in year 4, so I think most people are just taking stock of the season as a whole which is a normal thing to do at year end. Previous Message
Ugh
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Bill Cubit and the Not Ideals with their hit rendition of "Not a Dagger"#bowlorbust #tourneyorbust #noexcuses
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Message Thread | This response ↓
 Postgame thread - illiniranger November 30, 2019, 14:08:43
- Posted just for this picture - Cunativeson December 5, 2019, 11:55:24
- dots - jdl December 5, 2019, 19:39:11
- beat bowl opponent* - Detlef December 5, 2019, 10:26:33
- roughy's newest blog post is a worthwhile read* - ArtVandelay December 5, 2019, 10:19:37
- For lack of a better place, are we recruiting the ESL QB? (Tyler Macon) - TheGandyMan45 December 4, 2019, 17:25:05
- Yes - illiniranger December 4, 2019, 17:31:17
- Cory Patterson visited with Antonio Johnson and his family on Monday night - illini21 December 4, 2019, 16:43:05
- A piece of good news, Hayes says he is returning for next season - larue33 December 4, 2019, 15:32:57
- Lere Oladipo in the transfer portal.* - Detlef December 4, 2019, 13:59:32
- Man I wish the Redbox (eww) Bowl was on 12/31.* - Warrin'_Illini December 4, 2019, 13:48:28
- I assume we will not get word on a destination until after the weekend's games?* - TheGandyMan45 December 4, 2019, 13:27:23
- here are some interesting stats on our turnover rates - reggiedunlop December 4, 2019, 12:53:47
- I have no idea what these stats are saying* - gvibes December 4, 2019, 13:33:16
- 000 - gig December 4, 2019, 15:50:25
- ooo - illiniranger December 4, 2019, 13:34:39
- this deserves its own thread - illiniranger December 4, 2019, 13:24:42
- Finally, a stat that demonstrates the obvious truth. * - uofi1998 December 4, 2019, 13:09:29
- here's an interesting article about the inverted Tampa 2 - illiniranger December 4, 2019, 10:17:16
- American-Chinese U vs Chinese U* - PrkrLewis December 4, 2019, 9:11:47
- MSU Twitter is thinking pretty heavily they're going to the Bronx? - ijustkrushalot December 3, 2019, 10:32:34
- Jason Kirk has RedBox vs. Cal * - ijustkrushalot December 4, 2019, 8:46:51
- Palm has us in Redbox vs Washington* - Mrap24 December 4, 2019, 8:29:14
- Redbox. Lock* - Rynounc99 December 3, 2019, 10:44:39
- Stewart Mandel has us playing FSU in Detroit.* - PrkrLewis December 3, 2019, 10:41:06
- Jeebus, let them. Anything is better than NYC in the winter. * - osklister December 3, 2019, 10:39:45
- Only Illini fans that want the pinstripe live there* - Taz December 3, 2019, 10:40:28
- just so expensive* - ECEIllinois December 3, 2019, 11:44:05
- YOU ARE MISINFORMED. NYC>>>> Detroit* - Detlef December 3, 2019, 11:27:43
- No, not at all. Logistically and date-wise it is ideal for me.... - HectorVillanueva19 December 3, 2019, 11:26:29
- Negative. - tvillini December 3, 2019, 11:24:42
- Um no. If I could go that would be tops for me - bjl63 December 3, 2019, 10:45:20
- I'd rather go to Detroit and sit in a dome than sit in the cold at Yankee Stadium.* - PrkrLewis December 3, 2019, 10:40:16
- Good. I'm looking at Airbnb and hotels right now for 12/27 - 1/1. At least $1k for that stay.* - PrkrLewis December 3, 2019, 10:38:47
- Former 4* STL DL Michael Thompson (of OU) enters the transfer portal - UofIL6 December 3, 2019, 10:11:56
- BTW, is there any news on Doug Kramer? When cerny came in, it got really ugly. - uofi1998 December 3, 2019, 9:08:22
- My agglomerated offense thoughts, after stewing for a few days. - ijustkrushalot December 2, 2019, 16:25:28
- "I'd be ok not watching [him] play football ever again" "[he] was actually OK passing" - longsnapper December 3, 2019, 9:15:11
- i would have preferred Taylor in there as the backup because he does one thing really well - illiniranger December 3, 2019, 10:35:18
- I don't know. We've seen him in action in likely 7-8 games in his brief career, some with extended - UofIL6 December 3, 2019, 10:05:41
- I think you’re judging him by a very Illinois bar - snipes824 December 3, 2019, 9:51:14
- This Is The Way * - lp December 3, 2019, 9:40:18
- I tend to agree. I think the frustration is they didn't trust him for the entire first half. - tvillini December 3, 2019, 9:34:22
- here's a long two part response. - illiniranger December 2, 2019, 17:58:29
- I agree with all of that - reggiedunlop December 2, 2019, 16:35:45
- Probably should go to the Peters subthread below but - JacobRDaugherty December 2, 2019, 15:53:29
- JeffJ says the DIA wants the Pinstripe Bowl against Pitt --> $$$ - Lord Maximus December 2, 2019, 15:39:48
- I think JeffJ has similar "source(s)" as a several people do on here.... - HectorVillanueva19 December 3, 2019, 11:32:01
- Make it happen* - snipes824 December 2, 2019, 16:01:31
- Ugh no.* - ECEIllinois December 2, 2019, 16:01:22
- New York is the one place I don’t want to go to* - CanHartlebHireSnider December 2, 2019, 15:54:07
- This convinces me we probably aren't going to NYC.* - PrkrLewis December 2, 2019, 15:45:34
- Me too, for sure* - JacobRDaugherty December 2, 2019, 15:44:21
- I’ll be there if it happens* - CWR10 December 2, 2019, 15:43:58
- Also, did the DIA get new interns starting today? I've gotten 4 emails from them today* - Taz December 2, 2019, 13:32:37
- If they raise season ticket prices (see email inside!) for 2020, then I'll get on the hate Whitman - Taz December 2, 2019, 12:54:35
- Probably never going to happen, but watch them actually lower the price. . - Savoy December 2, 2019, 18:14:24
- Surprised deadline is not sooner, would expect some date berfore our bowl game* - Savoy December 2, 2019, 18:04:41
- I think they’ll have a small increase. I like the early renewal option - CubsWonWorldSeries December 2, 2019, 14:44:00
- doesn't that email say prices stay the same by renewing now?* - assassin December 2, 2019, 14:07:22
- you going to the bowl game?* - Detlef December 2, 2019, 12:56:38
- btw, I gained an appreciation for the people that say that the concessions are bad - Gene Parmesan December 2, 2019, 12:41:46
- I am happy the team made a bowl game. - Detlef December 2, 2019, 12:03:32
- would you feel better/worse/the same about the season if we lost to wisconsin & msu - biclops December 2, 2019, 11:30:12
- Or the exact same season but in a different order? Start 2-6, then finish with the 4-game streak - meanjeans December 2, 2019, 13:33:45
- Idk. I want to not see the same bad stuff (that's mostly controllable by good coaching) at the end - Taz December 2, 2019, 12:35:50
- There's no way of answering that without seeing how it played out. - uofi1998 December 2, 2019, 11:39:17
- I think the way we lose would have to be factored. - tvillini December 2, 2019, 11:34:51
- Recency bias. - Illiniphil December 2, 2019, 11:34:36
- Much worse. That is the type of irrelevant 6-6 win season that I want nothing to do with. - OB25 December 2, 2019, 11:32:38
- I wish roughy was still here. I think he’s missing the point with his ‘stance’ tweets... - OB25 December 2, 2019, 10:05:00
- We all asked before the season to improve to what, 70th in defense (SP+)? - snipes824 December 2, 2019, 11:31:30
- i wonder if there'd be fewer "stance" tweets if the season hadn't been called "magical" by JW - Gene Parmesan December 2, 2019, 11:26:34
- The irony of this tweet combined with his own pinned tweet (ooo) - meanjeans December 2, 2019, 11:07:29
- Doesn't he already do that with Underwood's recruiting style? "I said 2 years ago this would happen"
 - Kajagoogoo December 2, 2019, 11:26:16
- Yes there are people that want to be "right" and thus have a stance, but I'd argue those are few and - Taz December 2, 2019, 11:13:11
- I'll be honest, I don't know what he means by "stance-free." Doesn't he just have a different stance - gvibes December 2, 2019, 11:10:46
- I think he's commenting that folks have been Illinois'd to the point that - lp December 2, 2019, 11:16:39
- I think that most people are just not going to be that happy with a 6-6 season. - gvibes December 2, 2019, 11:35:20
- I think the actual feeling is that if the floor for an Illini team was 6-6, he would be enshrined. - tvillini December 2, 2019, 11:58:47
- That old yarn has never been true, and I scoff every time I see it. - uofi1998 December 2, 2019, 11:47:31
- Absolutely - snipes824 December 2, 2019, 11:43:48
- yeah, and that makes sense too* - lp December 2, 2019, 11:40:56
- Maybe not in a sustained sense, but as a point along the current spectrum, 6-6 is quite acceptable. - Illiniphil December 2, 2019, 11:39:23
- it's fine to be honest about the team's strengths and flaws. it's not when you say dumb things to.. - suburbanmyth December 2, 2019, 11:15:30
- his stance is we are on track - illiniranger December 2, 2019, 11:14:12
- maybe he should worry less about being mr. fan police - IlliniSax05 December 2, 2019, 11:09:36
- I really really really thought that game against NW was going to be the game we had against Iowa. - tvillini December 2, 2019, 10:20:46
- he made many more points than simply calling out stance-defending - suburbanmyth December 2, 2019, 10:18:09
- Dissecting the year... there were two games I feel awful about - ijustkrushalot December 2, 2019, 9:06:49
- Someone posted about the NG All State team (we have one commit so far). - osklister December 2, 2019, 9:02:35
- These tweets are always fun. Committed but not - UofIL6 December 2, 2019, 7:35:47
- Burger basket enters the transfer portal. We recruited him hard* - OrangeSox December 2, 2019, 6:18:04
- Jalen St. John reopens recruitment. Get him!* - Cunativeson December 1, 2019, 17:33:39
- again?* - bbonb December 1, 2019, 19:22:05
- Dammit* - Cunativeson December 1, 2019, 20:39:59
- ESPN Bowl projections: 1 vote for Detroit (vs. BC) & 1 vote for Pinstripe (vs. Louisville)* - TheGandyMan45 December 1, 2019, 17:09:48
- Magical season according to Whitman - illini21 December 1, 2019, 16:46:42
- it was magical for me because i literally dreamt it* - suburbanmyth December 2, 2019, 10:19:03
- Whitman also probably thinks his tenure has been magical, thus the raise and extension* - ArtVandelay December 2, 2019, 8:49:55
- 2001 and 2007 were magical. We had a couple of magical games this year, but a 6-6 season? - IlliniOllie December 2, 2019, 8:28:53
- ooo - gig December 2, 2019, 8:39:31
- Four game conference win streak, beating a Top 10 team, biggest comeback in school history - ATL December 1, 2019, 19:58:38
- Hey Taz - this is a good insight into how Whitman thinks - illiniranger December 1, 2019, 17:45:51
- exactly right - this is a window into the culture of the DIA, and what has been wrong for decades!* - ArtVandelay December 2, 2019, 7:09:30
- I'm with Taz on that, this is dumb. - larue33 December 1, 2019, 18:04:37
- I think trying to glean Whitman’s thinking from a press statement is pretty dumb - CanHartlebHireSnider December 2, 2019, 8:52:22
- People are extra red-ass because we looked like total dogshit yesterday - AintHatin December 1, 2019, 19:45:53
- yep - snipes824 December 1, 2019, 18:33:47
- How about he says “we made a bowl game” instead of “magical season” - illiniranger December 1, 2019, 18:13:11
- Yep, I want the AD making glowingly positive comments about the coach - IlliniRunner December 1, 2019, 18:06:59
- Yea. I don't think that Tweet was as well thought out as he would have liked. - OWWDig December 1, 2019, 17:52:52
- “Magical”... careful, don’t trip over that bar, Josh* - IlliniOllie December 1, 2019, 17:34:49
- Burger Basket (Dayven Coleman) enters the portal. I recall when he was a sought after Lovie target* - UofIL6 December 1, 2019, 14:14:35
- After letting it settle for a day, I still feel pretty discouraged overall. - OB25 December 1, 2019, 13:59:23
- Jalen St John back on the market. Go get him, Lovie/CP* - UofIL6 December 1, 2019, 13:28:19
- As gross as that was top to bottom, the fact that we waited that long to get IW on the field - GMAW December 1, 2019, 10:32:33
- Yep exactly. This is why I said I feel that the coaches took some "lucky" wins - Taz December 1, 2019, 13:36:47
- Our players won games despite their coaching? It was the epitome of stupid. * - uofi1998 December 1, 2019, 11:08:44
- and then literally put him in at the worst possible time* - reggiedunlop December 1, 2019, 10:47:37
- Felt he was the best option for our ball club* - WhitmansFolly December 1, 2019, 10:33:55
- Unless the line suddenly started blocking for IW, it would have made zero difference* - longsnapper December 1, 2019, 10:37:51
- Probably, but there was literally no reason not to try* - GMAW December 1, 2019, 10:41:20
- IW: 3/10, 38 yards, 0 TDs, 1 INT. 9 rushes, 16 yards. You want to start a true FR - longsnapper December 1, 2019, 10:55:18
- I wanted Isaiah to start, but since that didn't happen, we had a couple options - Taz December 1, 2019, 13:40:17
- I think the angst over Robinson is that he doesn't look like a functional option at all - UofIL6 December 1, 2019, 11:35:34
- he's just a kid so i'm not going to trash him like many others have but robinson - suburbanmyth December 1, 2019, 11:34:59
- Any time in the 2nd half while it was still a game to try to ignite something. Or not at all. - uofi1998 December 1, 2019, 11:15:37
- You can toss in Rod Smith if you want, but this was/is coaching overall. Start with Lovie. - osklister December 1, 2019, 11:10:28
- Agree on all * - illiniranger December 1, 2019, 10:59:16
- Maybe it's been posted already: first time ever NU has beaten UIUC five times in a row. * - osklister December 1, 2019, 10:06:27
- so, it wasn't just a bad dream..still shocked how easily they ran it* - Mismysteri December 1, 2019, 8:08:15
- One prediction shows Illinois vs Cal in the Redbox Bowl 12/30 Levi's Stadium Santa Clara* - RSMBob November 30, 2019, 22:56:13
- Let’s play Miami - CubsWonWorldSeries November 30, 2019, 21:25:57
- Once bit twice shy I stopped watching after the 1H. I'm weighing my satisfaction with the season - lp November 30, 2019, 20:03:37
- Shamelessly stolen from another forum... - uofi1998 November 30, 2019, 16:48:27
- last few games are so illinois. play well enough to beat a better opponent on the road and then no - Ari Gold November 30, 2019, 16:47:30
- We're the one B1G team that couldn't figure out a way to beat NU. Well, shite-y bowl here we come! - osklister November 30, 2019, 16:38:19
- Going to have a real hard time firing Lovie after the inevitable 7-5 year next year * - gvibes November 30, 2019, 16:29:44
- Annoying ass NU fans sitting behind us - Cunativeson November 30, 2019, 16:12:49
- Box score. 14 yards rushing: - JeffFrank November 30, 2019, 15:29:13
- mediocre coach coaches mediocre team to mediocre season ... - fizzlepizzle November 30, 2019, 15:25:53
- So Brandon Peters is worth what, 20 points a game over replacement value? - meanjeans November 30, 2019, 15:17:17
- so... Detroit it is?* - ECEIllinois November 30, 2019, 15:10:04
- *fart* - Waka November 30, 2019, 14:36:08
- Anyone else having connectivity issues with boardhost? I’m trying to blowhard here and I’m getting - meanjeans November 30, 2019, 14:30:18
- This season had 2 really successful results, but is hardly a success. - uofi1998 November 30, 2019, 14:25:32
- Our drive chart: - longsnapper November 30, 2019, 14:22:04
- That. Idea with Bobby.....anyone else listen to that? - LPAD November 30, 2019, 14:17:35
- incredibly disappointing, but it hasn't erased all of the goodwill from the season for me - snipes824 November 30, 2019, 14:16:53
- Agreed* - CubsWonWorldSeries November 30, 2019, 15:12:03
- Shit sandwich* - VIV November 30, 2019, 14:16:09
- embarrassing. need a new OL coach * - Detlef November 30, 2019, 14:15:37
- ####, that hurts for so many reasons* - reggiedunlop November 30, 2019, 14:12:02
- I’m disappointed but trying to keep some perspective. - opossum jenkins November 30, 2019, 14:11:55
- Ooo - IlliniOllie November 30, 2019, 14:11:03
- Teams have fired coaches for less * - meanjeans November 30, 2019, 14:10:24
- What’s to say? Everything about that sucked. Most of all fitzy * - LPAD November 30, 2019, 14:10:18
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on December 2, 2019, 10:45:43, in reply to "my concern is similar to the bears from last year to this one"