Seemed like a “this guy at worst can be a great special teams player and develop into more”
Edited by Carl Spackler on November 20, 2025, 16:25:42
Meanwhile he often can’t even get on the field on special teams and we’ve had 4 LBs play over him? (Edmunds, Edwards, Sewell, Jackson, I imagine Ogbonbimiga will eventually be 5) Think it’s both the Ravens and the Eagles who use consensus measures as part of their drafting process. It’s because if your scouting has an outlier opinion on a player, your scouting team is probably wrong (and/or you should wait to take the player because he’s probably not as high on other boards).  Previous Message He was not going to be expected to play this year. Now the question would be if you could have gotten him a round or two later. Previous Message *fart noise* Previous Message Not good. Previous Message
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Message Thread | This response ↓
 Bears-Steelers Week: Jaylon Johnson practiced in full, Gordon limited. - Carl Spackler November 20, 2025, 14:43:07
- Devonta Smith missed practice today. Seems very questionable going into Friday. - Carl Spackler November 26, 2025, 20:14:23
- Lions All-Pro Center Frank Ragnow coming out of retirement and re-joining Lions* - OB25 November 26, 2025, 15:29:22
- If Ozzy/Benedent is able to form an acceptable LT, the Bears can basically spend every draft pick - Toonces November 25, 2025, 18:08:42
- Rome leading the NFL - VIV November 25, 2025, 10:39:10
- Some pretty great company on that list * - meanjeans November 26, 2025, 11:35:20
- Rome has Crossed the Rubicon. * - osklister November 25, 2025, 13:28:26
- And he is on my team. * - harb November 25, 2025, 11:01:41
- I remain underwhelmed by him. Too many drops and middling sideline footwork - OrangeSox November 25, 2025, 10:45:10
- He went from Penix's beautiful balls to Caleb's Howitzer. Will take some adjustment.* - Warrin'_Illini November 25, 2025, 10:43:23
- I am not happy to admit it, but it seems like Poles may have nailed this draft. - gvibes November 25, 2025, 10:36:48
- Eagles going to be without Andrew Mukuba Friday. Maybe Adoree Jackson & Reed Blankenship too - Carl Spackler November 24, 2025, 16:48:07
- I’m not a fan of Poles but early returns on this draft class are increasingly positive. - OB25 November 24, 2025, 11:58:24
- Yeah. Weird that they moved Trapilo out of LT consideration preseason/early. - gvibes November 24, 2025, 14:56:04
- People piling on Ruben Hyppolite II are mean. He's doing his best.* - Warrin'_Illini November 24, 2025, 14:46:13
- ooo (nsfw) - IlliniSax05 November 24, 2025, 14:54:23
- All offensive skill position players drafted with at least input if not final decision from Ben - DocWalk20 November 24, 2025, 14:29:04
- It’s a shame his prized defensive signing is cheeks* - Mrap24 November 24, 2025, 11:59:49
- These pressure/sack stats are such a huge part of the offense turnaround - Carl Spackler November 24, 2025, 11:05:36
- I think PFF grades for non-skill position players are crap, but I’ll use this one anyway… - OB25 November 24, 2025, 11:25:33
- JJ McCarthy had a higher PFF rating than Caleb this week* - gvibes November 24, 2025, 11:28:00
- It's Brosmer time! - AintHatin November 24, 2025, 14:00:57
- Imagine how many points the Bears would've scored yesterday if they only had JJ McCarthy at QB - OrangeSox November 24, 2025, 13:38:00
- people need to stop giving PFF grades any amount of credibility
 - IlliniSax05 November 24, 2025, 13:37:01
- lol, seriously?* - VIV November 24, 2025, 13:33:03
- McCarty is now 851 out of 852 in EPA per dropback. Ahead of only JaMarcus Russell* - Chicago1995 November 24, 2025, 11:37:26
- But what was Nine’s rating?* - Ron McDon November 24, 2025, 11:36:19
- would love someone to explain how that's possible* - John Coctostan November 24, 2025, 11:34:18
- bagent told biggs this staff does an amazing job of spending time with the reserves so they - Ari Gold November 24, 2025, 10:55:42
- This is how Hyppolite got injured - gvibes November 24, 2025, 10:19:01
- Goodbye Aaron Rodgers. Go Bears.* - Warrin'_Illini November 24, 2025, 8:40:25
- I didn't know the Steelers are 1-13 lifetime in Chicago with the win coming 30 yrs ago* - ibdoc November 24, 2025, 8:08:36
- MONANGAI with 4 more carries than Swift. - Carl Spackler November 24, 2025, 7:20:13
- I was wrong about Caleb Williams, and I feel shame. - uofi1998 November 24, 2025, 6:43:05
- Could be tied for first at the end of the night * - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 18:51:10
- Trapilo was very good today* - AintHatin November 23, 2025, 17:40:39
- Credit to Kevin Warren for being front and center in all these postgame celebrations. - illini November 23, 2025, 17:37:00
- Bears have a better record than the Illini, go figure* - RSMBob November 23, 2025, 16:26:51
- (longsnapper don't look) #1 offensive player per preliminary PFF grades - Ozzy Trapilo* - gvibes November 23, 2025, 16:14:21
- Come on jameis* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 15:27:11
- 4 straight putrid drives by Indy.* - Mrap24 November 23, 2025, 15:20:18
- PIT with 1 all time win in CHI is a crazy stat that is hard to believe really* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 15:18:02
- From 0-2 and losing by a billion to Detroit to 8-3. Makes zero sense but it’s been a fun ride* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 15:14:10
- good better best!* - Ari Gold November 23, 2025, 15:12:51
- Giants Lions going to OT on Fox* - Orangeillini November 23, 2025, 15:12:36
- BEARS* - Ron McDon November 23, 2025, 15:12:22
- How big was that by rule timeout reduction* - opossum jenkins November 23, 2025, 15:11:36
- Meh, don’t make a big difference did it? They went 4 and out, didn’t run out of time* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 15:24:20
- wut?* - Ari Gold November 23, 2025, 15:55:52
- Had no idea that is the rule. I also don’t understand the point? What advantage would PIT gain by - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 15:14:23
- crazy good break, along with the formation penalty negating the Rudolph run* - Orangeillini November 23, 2025, 15:12:12
- Just as everyone of us predicted, the Bears played fantastic defense in the second half to win it* - Orangeillini November 23, 2025, 15:10:40
- 8-3* - illini21 November 23, 2025, 15:10:37
- Yes sir!* - Mrap24 November 23, 2025, 15:10:33
- Seriously Herculean effort by that group of defenders. Hell yes* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 15:10:27
- Yup* - illini21 November 23, 2025, 15:10:51
- HELL YEAH* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 15:10:17
- Lions tied it up* - Orangeillini November 23, 2025, 15:09:45
- Will be lucky to only give up 3* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 15:09:14
- Gonna just let them waltz right down here* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 15:08:50
- Too easy* - Mrap24 November 23, 2025, 15:08:38
- Tory Taylor is ass* - opossum jenkins November 23, 2025, 15:07:53
- way too easy.* - Ari Gold November 23, 2025, 15:07:39
- Fuck off Taylor* - illini21 November 23, 2025, 15:07:09
- Awful punt. * - VIV November 23, 2025, 15:06:52
- What a shit punt* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 15:06:51
- Go for it* - bbonb November 23, 2025, 15:06:14
- Wait what? How do they lose a TO there??* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 15:06:13
- Injury* - Mrap24 November 23, 2025, 15:06:30
- would’ve liked to have seen a caleb keeper somewhere there.* - Ari Gold November 23, 2025, 15:06:07
- Caleb need to know to just go down. But also bad time for wright to block no one* - Mrap24 November 23, 2025, 15:06:06
- How can we not have anybody open* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 15:05:26
- Dammit the game was over if he doesn’t slip* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 15:04:44
- Oh no* - illini21 November 23, 2025, 15:04:38
- Soldier Field turf showing its awesomeness. * - VIV November 23, 2025, 15:04:31
- Turf monster* - Mrap24 November 23, 2025, 15:04:30
- Oh man, he had the cutback lane* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 15:04:04
- Absolutely throw it here* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 15:03:29
- If they lose now, fire Bart Miller tonight* - opossum jenkins November 23, 2025, 15:01:47
- I’m shocked the punted. 2 runs here, make them use timeouts* - Mrap24 November 23, 2025, 15:00:44
- Thank you Tomlin* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 15:00:23
- LOL at punting it there* - Carl Spackler November 23, 2025, 15:00:21
- Woah punting? GUTLESS* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 14:59:50
- Did we line offside?* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 14:58:15
- Saved by stupidity. Phew* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 14:58:14
- This is insanely slow by PIT* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 14:57:15
- Should’ve gone for it* - opossum jenkins November 23, 2025, 14:55:27
- Possible win cons: (1) Bears defense holds (lol), (2) Steelers score too fast, Bears comeback win.* - Orangeillini November 23, 2025, 14:55:14
- Pathetic!* - Toonces November 23, 2025, 14:54:44
- Can we stop them?* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 14:54:44
- YES!* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 14:59:48
- From that above angle, holy cow is the field awful* - Mrap24 November 23, 2025, 14:53:44
- I’d honestly consider going here* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 14:53:43
- Hell of a catch. * - VIV November 23, 2025, 14:53:36
- Dammit caleb* - VIV November 23, 2025, 14:53:05
- The’s inexcusable. Wtf* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 14:53:05
- JFC* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 14:52:57
- There’s like 3 plays a game where CW and the wr aren’t on the same page on whether to sit or - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 14:52:10
- Brutal miss* - illini21 November 23, 2025, 14:52:08
- Another wide open guy* - Mrap24 November 23, 2025, 14:51:43
- 22 just ran to the line instead of covering the TE like he was supposed to - Mrap24 November 23, 2025, 14:49:40
- Ok that was inevitable. Just don’t stop trying to score td’s* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 14:48:57
- Soft call* - gvibes November 23, 2025, 14:45:48
- Even if they punch this in, at least made them use half the quarter to do so.* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 14:45:14
- Man this turf is brutal* - Mrap24 November 23, 2025, 14:43:53
- That was a big missed gift wrapped sack.* - Carl Spackler November 23, 2025, 14:39:44
- Great route* - Mrap24 November 23, 2025, 14:35:31
- I really think Rudolph has a 3rd TO in him* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 14:34:22
- Monangai has been an awesome pick. More like that, Poles.* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 14:31:53
- yes.* - Ari Gold November 23, 2025, 14:33:33
- Man, if the Bears can win this and the Giants can hold off the Lions…* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 14:31:46
- Big defensive series. Cant let them get 7* - Mrap24 November 23, 2025, 14:29:55
- Holy shit at the OL there* - gvibes November 23, 2025, 14:29:28
- love the commitment to the run there.* - Ari Gold November 23, 2025, 14:29:18
- That was some sexy blocking* - illini21 November 23, 2025, 14:29:15
- Detroit is in big trouble. Let’s finish this* - illini21 November 23, 2025, 14:27:18
- Jameis!* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 14:32:48
- Um, NYG just went up 10 at DET* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 14:27:05
- Gotta finish this drive with 7* - Mrap24 November 23, 2025, 14:25:05
- Fortunate spot* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 14:22:56
- Gotta be some holes opening the run game now* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 14:21:06
- need a knock out punch.* - Ari Gold November 23, 2025, 14:20:01
- Yeah baby* - illini21 November 23, 2025, 14:19:47
- That’s why you punt it there* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 14:19:36
- Blatant grab by the DB. No need for it* - Mrap24 November 23, 2025, 14:18:35
- That’s why you go for it there* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 14:18:30
- No balls! Could have run for a first down easily.* - Toonces November 23, 2025, 14:14:35
- Wow really surprised that we punted. Only got us 30 yards* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 14:13:44
- God dammit* - illini21 November 23, 2025, 14:13:12
- Catch the ball* - Mrap24 November 23, 2025, 14:11:27
- shockingly good defense so far this half. better keep scoring though...* - Orangeillini November 23, 2025, 14:08:52
- Assist to the park district there* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 14:07:41
- LFG* - illini21 November 23, 2025, 14:07:30
- Great help from the shitty turf!* - Mrap24 November 23, 2025, 14:07:27
- Don’t know who half these guys are but they’re playing hard at least* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 14:07:22
- Hell yeah! That’s how you take advantage of the free play. * - VIV November 23, 2025, 14:02:13
- Hell yes* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 14:01:34
- Fuck yeah. Great back to back play calls and CW executed perfectly on both* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 14:01:26
- Oh fuck off, and it was a late hit too* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 14:00:10
- Jfc DJ* - Mrap24 November 23, 2025, 14:00:05
- Incredibly weak. Come on man* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 13:59:52
- so dumb.* - Ari Gold November 23, 2025, 13:59:41
- Rome, Loveland and burden are all so good in space. Would like to see more and more of those - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 13:58:33
- nice to see somebody else make a terrible st penalty.* - Ari Gold November 23, 2025, 13:57:28
- Wow huge break there* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 13:56:27
- I can’t wait until refs are replaced by AI robots - Randle McMurphy November 23, 2025, 13:54:39
- We have penalties on >50% of our kick/punt returns, don’t we?* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 13:53:24
- Wright has the best ball skills of anyone on the team* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 13:53:12
- Got through the double up window at only -4, that’s a huge win* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 13:52:09
- they can't go downfield - apusikam November 23, 2025, 13:51:57
- this just is not an NFL defense - apusikam November 23, 2025, 13:48:38
- Feels like our guys are more open today than normal. Gotta clean it up after half. * - illini November 23, 2025, 13:38:55
- Frustrating to the max but ok finish. Let’s go. I am drunk and it’s going to be a long one.* - Toonces November 23, 2025, 13:34:41
- Fine but FGs not gonna cut it today* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 13:33:44
- Nice job getting points there* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 13:32:52
- agreed.* - Ari Gold November 23, 2025, 13:34:50
- Man he’s been off today* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 13:31:12
- His accuracy is a problem* - UIHuskie November 23, 2025, 13:31:09
- another effing overthrow!* - Ari Gold November 23, 2025, 13:30:36
- Wtf was burden doing* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 13:30:12
- Not worth the yards/TO trade off there* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 13:29:31
- Desperately needed that conversion, triple up wouldn’t have been out of the question.* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 13:28:38
- Jesus caleb* - gvibes November 23, 2025, 13:27:30
- Rome you gotta get that foot in.* - Carl Spackler November 23, 2025, 13:27:23
- Come. On. Caleb. * - VIV November 23, 2025, 13:27:22
- Smart to waste time but being that careless was very dumb* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 13:25:52
- Did Aaron Henry call the defensive play on 3rd and 15? - Mrap24 November 23, 2025, 13:22:06
- Not gonna get many 3rd and 11 opportunities with this defense, the easy 10 yard pass was the killer* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 13:22:03
- should’ve called a to on that 3rd down play we weren’t ready for.* - Ari Gold November 23, 2025, 13:21:27
- Did the BTN+ production team get this game?* - Carl Spackler November 23, 2025, 13:20:36
- God dammit, way better if he just scored* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 13:20:06
- Great job everybody* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 13:19:11
- Woof* - illini21 November 23, 2025, 13:19:09
- You gotta be fucking kidding me. Why the to* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 13:18:50
- don't love that timeout. surely they go for it and make it* - Orangeillini November 23, 2025, 13:18:16
- That was an awesome play by sweat* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 13:17:45
- Steel City vs Chi-city?! What the fuck? Chi-city has never been used by anyone. Ever. - longsnapper November 23, 2025, 13:16:54
- Even when they have the play bottled up it’s 6-8 yard gains on back to back plays* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 13:13:22
- Gotta keep scoring td’s* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 13:11:36
- correct.* - Ari Gold November 23, 2025, 13:14:52
- what a momentum change that whole sequence was.* - Ari Gold November 23, 2025, 13:09:09
- Very good Caleb. * - VIV November 23, 2025, 13:08:59
- Ok Loveland is kind of a freak * - gvibes November 23, 2025, 13:08:47
- Really huge to get 7 and not 3 there with the Pittsburgh double up opportunity pending* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 13:08:28
- that’s what i’m talking about!* - Ari Gold November 23, 2025, 13:07:38
- The good is so good. Perfect timing* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 13:05:32
- And again* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 13:07:39
- What the fuck Caleb? Cutler had more chalance than this* - longsnapper November 23, 2025, 13:04:17
- Dumb caleb* - gvibes November 23, 2025, 13:03:07
- A guy that does that to mahomes is suspended 2 games* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 13:02:56
- get the ball down.* - Ari Gold November 23, 2025, 12:59:53
- Just so inaccurate * - illini21 November 23, 2025, 12:59:49
- Two strong cases why they need to reimplement the "no assisting ball carrier" rule.* - longsnapper November 23, 2025, 12:57:14
- A bit of justice there* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 12:56:41
- No clue what’s going on there. Ban the fucking push* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 12:56:32
- He was laying on the ground. Come the fuck on* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 12:53:04
- Horrible officiating. * - VIV November 23, 2025, 12:52:24
- Fucking bullshit* - illini21 November 23, 2025, 12:51:13
- Not a recipe for success so far today* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 12:51:04
- There’s no way that’s a fumble but there’s no way to overturn it. * - VIV November 23, 2025, 12:50:28
- 0% chance any ref saw that ball come out, you can’t just call it for the hell of it!* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 12:50:27
- refs didn't see it and were just guessing* - Orangeillini November 23, 2025, 12:50:10
- disastrous tos.* - Ari Gold November 23, 2025, 12:50:06
- Total bs. Should have been stopped, probably wasn’t a fumble, but they won’t overturn* - John Coctostan November 23, 2025, 12:50:01
- all of that started with the ko return. tough to win with the shittiness of our st.* - Ari Gold November 23, 2025, 12:44:33
- There are guys fucking standing there for 7-8 yard check downs. Throw the damn ball to open guys. - OB25 November 23, 2025, 12:44:07
- is it possible giving up the TD is better than taking a safety and giving up possession - Orangeillini November 23, 2025, 12:42:51
- Yikes* - illini21 November 23, 2025, 12:42:46
- At least we get the ball back this way!* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 12:42:19
- Not a real great play there imo* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 12:41:23
- WTF Caleb. Awful. * - VIV November 23, 2025, 12:41:22
- disaster* - Orangeillini November 23, 2025, 12:41:10
- Probably can’t afford a ton of penalties today* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 12:39:50
- fire hightower!* - Ari Gold November 23, 2025, 12:35:26
- Steelers have gained 5+ on 11 of 15 plays and also have 4 and 3 yard runs. No resistance.* - Orangeillini November 23, 2025, 12:34:56
- Gonna need to be a day that Caleb wins it for us, which is ultimately what matters the most anyway.* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 12:34:22
- it should be obvious at this point that the Bears should be going for it on 4th down a lot today* - Orangeillini November 23, 2025, 12:33:23
- Hyppolyte was out of position on every play, but at least he was out there - OrangeSox November 23, 2025, 12:31:56
- Stevenson in the locker room. So without LBs 1-4 and CBs 1-3* - Carl Spackler November 23, 2025, 12:31:29
- Stevenson has also gone to the locker room* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 12:31:12
- And now even fewer LBs* - VIV November 23, 2025, 12:30:32
- Getting marched on.* - Toonces November 23, 2025, 12:29:26
- It would be fun to support a team with an even average defense* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 12:28:39
- Not having linebackers makes it difficult * - VIV November 23, 2025, 12:27:51
- too much time.* - Ari Gold November 23, 2025, 12:27:05
- Pick up ur jock Byard* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 12:26:46
- Not offering much resistance here* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 12:25:33
- 93 gave up the edge* - Orangeillini November 23, 2025, 12:21:40
- Now that was a great throw. More of those, please* - OB25 November 23, 2025, 12:17:18
- Hell of a drive. What BJ has done with the run game is incredible * - illini21 November 23, 2025, 12:17:11
- woot!* - Orangeillini November 23, 2025, 12:16:38
- BANG. what a laser* - VIV November 23, 2025, 12:16:37
- Cream of some Monangai!* - VIV November 23, 2025, 12:13:37
- Get the first!* - VIV November 23, 2025, 12:11:57
- Jesus Christ Caleb* - illini21 November 23, 2025, 12:11:29
- another big miss there.* - Ari Gold November 23, 2025, 12:11:12
- that's a better catch than most of the Bears WRs are capable of making* - Orangeillini November 23, 2025, 12:08:34
- That better stand* - Herman Blume November 23, 2025, 12:08:25
- what a play!* - Ari Gold November 23, 2025, 12:08:05
- Are the Bears playing any linebackers today? - timmer November 23, 2025, 11:27:01
- Benedet inactive* - Carl Spackler November 23, 2025, 10:45:22
- Rodgers out for today.* - voiceofreason November 23, 2025, 9:54:48
- lol Rodgers is such a douche - illini21 November 23, 2025, 9:18:16
- biggs thinks benedet may be out as well.* - Ari Gold November 22, 2025, 17:07:53
- Cross both Jaylon and Kyler off the list, neither to be active* - OB25 November 22, 2025, 12:16:46
- Bears media site has Edmunds on IR apparently. - gvibes November 22, 2025, 10:24:02
- 49ers voiding Aiyuk’s contract 14 months after a 120 mil extension* - Mrap24 November 21, 2025, 18:29:48
- roschon and homer out too limiting practice squad call ups even further.* - Ari Gold November 21, 2025, 14:52:36
- Edmunds, Edwards, Sewell all out Sunday* - AintHatin November 21, 2025, 13:18:13
- Good Nate Tice article. There was a twitter thread with NFL HC ranks, and Ben was top 5 - gvibes November 21, 2025, 13:02:06
- If I’m the Steelers, I’m in 12/13 all game with Darnell Washington and spamming the run. - Carl Spackler November 21, 2025, 9:38:18
- biggs claims edmunds could be out multiple weeks with a groin.* - Ari Gold November 21, 2025, 7:07:48
- 12/7 game against the Packers flexed to the 3:25pm window* - illini21 November 20, 2025, 15:03:29
- Also The Athletic’s Playoff Simulator has the Bears winning 10 games and missing the playoffs - Carl Spackler November 20, 2025, 14:57:54
- I was too lazy to open a new thread. But no Edmunds, Edwards, or Sewell practice yet. - gvibes November 20, 2025, 14:44:22
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on November 20, 2025, 16:22:58, in reply to "He’ll probably be a bust but it was clearly an upside/developmental pick."