what he's describing is "new urbanism", which has been a development trend Archived Message Posted by Sounder on June 2, 2022, 13:20:29, in reply to "I've watched the first two episodes you linked." for probably over a decade now. Previous Message I don't find him insufferable. Nor do I have a problem with his general premise. Though his sentiment may evolve over future episodes, I don't believe he is insulting residents of suburban communities for their choice of lifestyle, nor is he blaming them for the potential downfall of their communities. He seems to instead be pointing out these communities cannot continue in perpetuity, and there is enough data available now to determine it is financially prudent to revert back to classic city development techniques wherever possible. I don't really see why anyone would be against that. I believe there is a way to increase the prosperity and adaptability of suburban communities without eliminating some of the features that made them so enticing in the first place. Message Thread: | This response ↓ Posted without comment: - longsnapper June 2, 2022, 11:00:02 Yeah #### big cities. They suck. Sorry * - PapaDels June 3, 2022, 23:41:12 ooo. - longsnapper June 4, 2022, 6:55:49 this tax information is interesting* - reggiedunlop June 3, 2022, 16:42:16 Center for Neighborhood Technology's H+T Index - oskeewowza June 2, 2022, 14:24:31 our Historic Preservation Ordinance requires anything 50 years + in age to be reviewed - ijustkrushalot June 2, 2022, 14:26:26 Yep. Funny, right? *M*odernism is facing a reckoning* - oskeewowza June 2, 2022, 14:29:09 there are some rare exceptions... I do think we have some SF neighborhoods that are decent enough - ijustkrushalot June 2, 2022, 14:31:53 IMO I would consider myself lucky to be in an historic district - oskeewowza June 2, 2022, 14:36:01 Our local historic districts are parochial in nature and poorer neighborhoods - ijustkrushalot June 2, 2022, 14:54:41 my old building was a historic apartment building on a historic boulevard. - longsnapper June 3, 2022, 8:52:18 i'm in one. it's pretty awesome* - VIV June 2, 2022, 14:41:01 I live in an older neighborhood and love it, it's not a regulated district though - ijustkrushalot June 2, 2022, 14:55:20 ...but we unlocked ADUs and we're starting to get guys going into neighborhoods - ijustkrushalot June 2, 2022, 14:34:19 This...even our very very plain post WW2 tract housing that is 95% of my neighborhood... - haighter June 2, 2022, 14:29:00 man I wish I didn't actually have to work today because this is all basically my world. * - ijustkrushalot June 2, 2022, 13:43:16 dude it's thursday. Basically the weekend.* - longsnapper June 2, 2022, 13:46:42 Do you generally agree with his thesis?* - Sounder June 2, 2022, 13:45:52 I haven't watched the videos but I generally subscribe to Strong Towns, although they get a bit much - ijustkrushalot June 2, 2022, 14:20:46 Can't wait* - reggiedunlop June 2, 2022, 13:35:48 I've watched the first two episodes you linked. - illini June 2, 2022, 13:19:04 what he's describing is "new urbanism", which has been a development trend - Sounder June 2, 2022, 13:20:29 New Urbanism is the old urbanism - ijustkrushalot June 2, 2022, 13:43:52 That is not true and an incorrect and tired critique* - oskeewowza June 2, 2022, 14:39:55 Oh I know and we've been around this a few times - ijustkrushalot June 2, 2022, 14:56:57 OK, I'm trying to work through this - Sounder June 2, 2022, 12:14:00 Absolutely not.* - complainant June 2, 2022, 14:08:06 I'm somewhere in the middle in terms of personal preference - GrandmotherPearlsJam June 2, 2022, 13:00:18 What I like about Seattle is that I have a single family home in a dense neighborhood - Sounder June 2, 2022, 13:06:16 that’s the move we just made. - Chilango June 3, 2022, 8:49:51 I have no problem with density. A lot of people in the area are vocal about not wanting apartments - GrandmotherPearlsJam June 2, 2022, 13:20:42 apartments are necessary for cities. I used to hate them, but I have really come around - longsnapper June 2, 2022, 13:23:56 high ceilings, sufficient windows, soundproof materials - these things make great apartments - complainant June 2, 2022, 14:40:49 a lot of started as "only poor or prostitutes woul duse apartments" and there's many - longsnapper June 3, 2022, 8:47:02 I think that single floor retail is pretty much a requirement in new Seattle apartments* - Sounder June 2, 2022, 13:21:58 Charlotte is way behind on this. It's getting better closer to the city, but to the point of this - GrandmotherPearlsJam June 2, 2022, 13:29:49 I seriously don't mean this to sound disparaging - Sounder June 2, 2022, 13:31:24 It's not. It wants to be. And could maybe get there. But they are going about it wrong.* - GrandmotherPearlsJam June 2, 2022, 13:34:40 I've been giving a lot of thought to NC/SC as a potential retirement locale* - Sounder June 2, 2022, 13:41:09 A lot of great places on the coast. Charlotte and Raleigh are on the come up. - GrandmotherPearlsJam June 2, 2022, 13:55:37 all of those things you described are what appeals to me* - Sounder June 2, 2022, 13:57:31 Whaaaaat? * - haighter June 2, 2022, 13:42:46 The West Coast is too damn expensive* - Sounder June 2, 2022, 13:43:19 Yea...but you're gonna wanna move to Charleston and to find a place... - haighter June 2, 2022, 13:53:31 honestly, I don't want any of that - Sounder June 2, 2022, 13:54:11 The problem with "beach" + "middle of nowhere" in NC/SC is that in NC - GrandmotherPearlsJam June 2, 2022, 13:59:37 I don't mind tourist destination as long as it's not too crazy* - Sounder June 2, 2022, 14:01:12 Northern Corolla would work. Up in the 4x4 area. Pretty remote, not many people vacationing up there - GrandmotherPearlsJam June 2, 2022, 14:13:01 well now we need the list of real cities* - longsnapper June 2, 2022, 13:32:26 Top of mind my list is pretty short, and not in any way meant to be disparaging - Sounder June 2, 2022, 13:40:33 That's a good list, I would chop it up a little - bigbop85 June 2, 2022, 14:41:40 Portland belongs on second tier, not lower* - cpsteine June 2, 2022, 16:19:28 No wonder I love cities…..all three cities where I’ve lived are listed* - TarheelIllini June 2, 2022, 14:39:12 LA is interesting because Red Car system. Their early mass transit was great - longsnapper June 2, 2022, 13:44:38 there are 28 cities in LA county, that blows my mind - Sounder June 2, 2022, 13:46:45 New York, Boston, Rantoul ... * - illini June 2, 2022, 13:34:34 Rantucky * - haighter June 2, 2022, 14:07:59 And contributes to the housing crisis in Seattle - bigbop85 June 2, 2022, 13:12:25 Sounder voted for a densification measure - IlliniRunner June 2, 2022, 13:14:48 Of course. But it's because suburbs & most cities have been designed around cars - longsnapper June 2, 2022, 12:44:51 Also, this asshole lives in Brainerd* - Sounder June 2, 2022, 12:18:27 unless Brainerd is a neighborhood in Amsterdam, you are wrong* - longsnapper June 2, 2022, 12:54:37 Minnesota?! Lol.* - cpsteine June 2, 2022, 12:52:20 It's like how some people like wearing shoes when they run. * - doubledown June 2, 2022, 12:18:17 Do you have an opinion on Edge Cities?* - Sounder June 2, 2022, 12:03:40 not especially concernee about titles, but about design* - longsnapper June 2, 2022, 13:05:48 But the definiion of an edge city basically covers what you are looking for in design* - Sounder June 2, 2022, 13:11:17 you have to really control the build-up, or they can explode without warning - Sammich June 2, 2022, 12:59:11 I lived in Walnut Creek, it was glorious* - Sounder June 2, 2022, 13:01:31 I think that's the first time that sentence has ever been written. * - haighter June 2, 2022, 13:04:18 You are wrong, people love that place - Sounder June 2, 2022, 13:09:32 I know...I'm just busting balls... - haighter June 2, 2022, 13:14:19 fun fact: the reason the BART system was built is because of Walnut Creek - Sounder June 2, 2022, 13:17:50 I just remember the first time driving out to their house...I just felt like... - haighter June 2, 2022, 13:20:40 o0o - haighter June 2, 2022, 13:17:06 Haters gonna hate* - HamptonSki June 2, 2022, 11:26:36 These will either be very interesting or completely insufferable - Sounder June 2, 2022, 11:24:38 Can't guys like this just pick a place to live that they enjoy and shut the #### up about it? - doubledown June 2, 2022, 11:17:14 yeah, people should just throw their hands up and not try to improve anything* - longsnapper June 2, 2022, 12:49:14 "Other people's preferences are fundamentally broken" isn't a great starting point. * - doubledown June 2, 2022, 13:01:54 this has little to do with other people's preference, and a lot to do with the design of towns* - longsnapper June 2, 2022, 13:08:22 Design that is based on ... * - doubledown June 2, 2022, 13:16:17 the automobile and an unsustainable growth model* - longsnapper June 2, 2022, 13:17:55 Yeah, you and the YouTube guy keep saying it's unsustainable, but there isn't exactly a mountain of - doubledown June 2, 2022, 13:22:52 It's like Tesla. Easy to keep growing if the federal government is subsidizing your growth* - longsnapper June 2, 2022, 13:30:18 maybe you say that in your OP instead of just "#### the suburbs" - IlliniSax05 June 2, 2022, 12:56:12 I could have, but then I wouldn't have gotten my point across.* - longsnapper June 2, 2022, 12:57:12 sure you would have. it just wouldn't have been so assholish and judgmental - IlliniSax05 June 2, 2022, 12:58:32 this is directed at the physical suburbs themselves, not the people living there* - longsnapper June 2, 2022, 13:11:54 Have you considered how much affordability weighs into this - Sounder June 2, 2022, 13:12:48 sure. but it doesn't change my views at all.* - longsnapper June 2, 2022, 13:17:19 Do you have a solution, or do you just want to be holier than thou?* - Sounder June 2, 2022, 13:21:00 A solution to home prices? Sure, build more medium density housing and improve public trans. - longsnapper June 2, 2022, 13:22:28 Do you understand that if you tax the cars entering the city - Sounder June 2, 2022, 13:41:54 I don't believe you, but it is an experiment I'd be willing to test out* - longsnapper June 2, 2022, 13:45:56 Especially in a place like Chicago, if you make people feel unwelcome - Sounder June 2, 2022, 13:47:58 I think you are ignoring the public transportation aspect of my improvement* - longsnapper June 2, 2022, 13:49:41 Look, I live somewhere that is genuinely trying to improve their public transit - Sounder June 2, 2022, 13:56:00 Cost of staying on the path we're on is even costlier. I understand that improvement comes - longsnapper June 2, 2022, 14:00:51 welcome to the deuce, Holly* - Gene Parmesan June 2, 2022, 12:15:38 So you didn't watch?* - longsnapper June 2, 2022, 11:41:16 I got about 4 minutes in, then decided I didn't really care what he had to say. * - doubledown June 2, 2022, 12:01:50 I'm really trying to get through this, but it's insufferable* - Sounder June 2, 2022, 12:07:05 Cool, them your previous comment is somewhat meaningless, no?* - longsnapper June 2, 2022, 12:02:51 No. * - doubledown June 2, 2022, 12:16:46 Or maybe admit the suburbs are really appealing to parents? - bigbop85 June 2, 2022, 11:29:38 I haven't watched yet...but would think that "Netherlands Style Cities" would likely be more... - haighter June 2, 2022, 11:49:41 Does being a "Netherlands style" city include not having "Chicago style" public schools? - IlliniOllie June 2, 2022, 13:11:50 I mean...there's less school aged Children in San Francisco than any other city... - haighter June 2, 2022, 14:50:13 we don't have any of those, unfortunately. and don't tick off SF or CHI as 'like that.' they're not* - cpsteine June 2, 2022, 12:54:01 It's also noteworthy that the Netherlands is flat AF* - Sounder June 2, 2022, 13:02:15 So are their women* - HamptonSki June 2, 2022, 13:04:30 Fluggaenkoechiebolsen!* - ISeeDeadHawkeyes June 2, 2022, 13:10:37 Like what you like and live your life - Sounder June 2, 2022, 11:26:04 ja. I'm guilty of judging people on where they live. It's dumb; I have tried to curb doing it* - cpsteine June 2, 2022, 11:19:36 Unless it's Peoria, then it's completely justified* - Sounder June 2, 2022, 14:04:47 samesies* - ArtVandelay June 2, 2022, 12:55:08 To be fair, you live somewhere pretty awesome* - ISeeDeadHawkeyes June 2, 2022, 12:06:44 ooo - IlliniSax05 June 2, 2022, 11:18:27 I'm gonna need to watch these later. Thanks for sharing* - KingTalkyTiki June 2, 2022, 11:03:19   Searching