that's good Archived Message Posted by Sammich on June 7, 2022, 12:05:50, in reply to "Again, I voted for all of the projects that I am currently complaining about" but it sounds like the projects themselves were compromised by an inability to envision a Seattle with significantly less personal vehicle traffic. Message Thread: | This response ↓ Snapper's Urban design idea of the day: no drive thrus in urban areas. - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 7:04:43 Snapper on a first date - Sounder June 7, 2022, 13:36:19 ####ing hate how car centric the US is* - ECEIllinois June 7, 2022, 12:35:11 Chapel Hill doesn't allow drive throughs* - opey8 June 7, 2022, 9:43:21 What are the boundaries for them? - TarheelIllini June 7, 2022, 12:05:06 Neither does San Luis Obispo. * - haighter June 7, 2022, 9:47:45 because that place is magical* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 9:48:58 sdie jack: I made Santa Maria style tri tip last night - Sounder June 7, 2022, 12:00:21 No reason? Isn't difficulty of parking a pretty good reason?* - Sounder June 7, 2022, 9:36:53 you are *this* close... the idea is that urban areas stop catering to cars, and focus on - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 9:39:10 For the tenth time, we are a car dependent society - Sounder June 7, 2022, 11:38:41 yeah, the people in the netherlands are ####ing miserable* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 11:41:04 You act as if you can just magically snap your fingers and make the US like Holland - Sounder June 7, 2022, 11:43:59 Does Sounder think Holland = Netherlands?* - complainant June 7, 2022, 12:38:42 Holland is a subregion of the Netherlands - Sounder June 7, 2022, 12:46:03 I'll get over it. Let's return to discussing how you think everyone is like you. - complainant June 7, 2022, 13:02:14 Are you looking for me to defend Millennials here?* - Sounder June 7, 2022, 13:46:06 Millennials are definitely known as the generation to not care about the environment.* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 13:48:01 I'm not saying Millennials don't care about the environment - Sounder June 7, 2022, 13:54:33 Directed more at compy than at you. This isn't a good argument though. It can't be - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 13:58:57 I mostly hate the term virtue signalling, but millennials do a metric ton of it - Sounder June 7, 2022, 14:02:23 Not as horrible as driving a car each way to work, I'm sure. Being environmentally conscious - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 14:15:16 it's almost like I knew your counter. They enacted 40 years of public policy change - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 11:45:06 Using what legal approach? - uofi1998 June 7, 2022, 13:26:23 I don't understand the question. I want people to vote for public policies - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 13:32:54 How are local govts. going to force policy change to reverse nearly 100 years of urban sprawl... - uofi1998 June 7, 2022, 13:44:50 I don't see it that way at all. Why would people be forced from their properties?* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 13:48:56 I'm completely fine with that, but it won't change anything in my lifetime* - Sounder June 7, 2022, 11:47:18 Also, I choose to live in a city that is trying to do the things you want to see - Sounder June 7, 2022, 11:48:43 Because it is full of half measures* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 11:50:08 half measures that have cost billiions and are billions over budget - Sounder June 7, 2022, 11:55:16 It's like trying to lose weight and going to the gym and trying hard but not changing your diet. - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 12:17:20 So what is your realistic solution?* - Sounder June 7, 2022, 12:20:09 I can't speak to Seattle specifically, but generally: - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 12:28:06 Seattle is literally doing some version of all of those things - Sounder June 7, 2022, 12:54:27 it's telling that some of those "comments" on quora says "shows promise" "good idea" etc. - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 12:59:22 Believe me, everyone in Seattle wants to live in your utopian vision - Sounder June 7, 2022, 13:29:29 You don't want to hear this, but support of public transportation also means utilizing it. - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 13:36:07 I literally laughed out loud at the idea that taking Seattle public transit - Sounder June 7, 2022, 13:41:20 An adult fare on King County metro is $2.75. And that credits to the Link light rail fare ($2.50) - IlliniRunner June 7, 2022, 13:48:35 $11 to take transit vs. $15 to drive and park isn't a difficult decision* - Sounder June 7, 2022, 14:09:33 $5 for a Zpack and penicillin* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 13:49:40 Build housing, build housing, build housing as well* - reggiedunlop June 7, 2022, 12:44:46 and your point?* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 11:48:09 my point that it's too little too late* - Sounder June 7, 2022, 11:49:00 ....for you* - IlliniRunner June 7, 2022, 12:51:46 this is the solipsism that needs to be overcome, yes - Sammich June 7, 2022, 11:56:55 Again, I voted for all of the projects that I am currently complaining about - Sounder June 7, 2022, 12:01:21 that's good - Sammich June 7, 2022, 12:05:50 There are several problems with the Seattle Transit sytem - Sounder June 7, 2022, 12:09:20 I remember it being a subplot in "Singles"* - Sammich June 7, 2022, 12:15:11 Exactly. That was 30 years ago. - Sounder June 7, 2022, 12:19:26 you also said that you COULD use light rail, but don't* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 12:04:19 I've used it a few times. - Sounder June 7, 2022, 12:06:25 I fundamentally disagree with that. Well, the too late part. It is definitely too little* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 11:50:24 Here's a sampling of what people think of light rail in Seattle - Sounder June 7, 2022, 11:54:13 Frequency is the key. I'm glad you identified that as a problem.* - complainant June 7, 2022, 14:21:48 Also I take the bigbop position on policing the riders. - complainant June 7, 2022, 14:24:11 And you do realize that any comment forum (whether online or a public comment) - IlliniRunner June 7, 2022, 12:53:29 For sure, but it doesn't make it less funny or less true* - Sounder June 7, 2022, 12:55:02 it shakes a lot?* - IlliniRunner June 7, 2022, 12:52:23 You have to admit Wallingford got f*cked hard in the light rail plan - Sounder June 7, 2022, 12:55:57 It shakes a lot? Wallingford did get fucked, I will admit. On a personal level - IlliniRunner June 7, 2022, 13:01:23 Yeah, in addition to the light rail not serving us - Sounder June 7, 2022, 13:30:37 Amsterdam in 1970: - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 11:43:43 Great, they have a 50 year start on us to fix the problem - Sounder June 7, 2022, 11:46:48 becuase it is designed around cars.... instead of elevating a train, just place light rail - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 11:49:36 Seattle built a tunnel and a light rail - Sounder June 7, 2022, 11:51:28 that tunnel was a terrible idea* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 11:55:09 Agree to disagree - Sounder June 7, 2022, 11:56:08 remember when the world's largest bore (not you, hey yo!) got stuck and they had to - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 11:57:28 The expense was acknowledged and expected - Sounder June 7, 2022, 11:59:06 Before the pandemic struck the new light rail segment was getting more use than expected - IlliniRunner June 7, 2022, 13:00:45 again, maybe they need to be better designed. It's not the light rail, it's the implementation* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 12:01:56 They aren't failing because they are incompetent - Sounder June 7, 2022, 12:09:59 It's mostly the uncomfortable wooden shoes. - KingTalkyTiki June 7, 2022, 11:42:28 My moonshot design idea: Make underneath the EL a covered bikeway everywhere* - Chilango June 7, 2022, 9:31:09 that would concentrate public transit along the same lines. Would rather have boulevards turn to - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 9:42:55 I think that makes more sense. - Chilango June 7, 2022, 12:14:01 ooo - bigbop85 June 7, 2022, 9:39:54 my moonshot idea- shutter the EL. - VIV June 7, 2022, 9:36:38 Yeah, that's a MARS shot. - Chilango June 7, 2022, 12:14:30 the El is good. Just need light rail or real dedicated bus lanes to connect as a circle line.* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 9:41:57 Just have buses stop less often and always stop after a light/stop sign - bigbop85 June 7, 2022, 9:44:17 100% agree with the less stops and location.* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 9:47:38 ooo - VIV June 7, 2022, 9:49:34 ooo - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 9:52:26 This was my number one fixable chicago transit issue five years ago - reggiedunlop June 7, 2022, 9:47:21 Now, it would be 1) increasing the number of e-bikes and lowering the price with 2) increasing - reggiedunlop June 7, 2022, 9:53:49 that ####ing parking deal pisses me off more and more everyday.* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 9:57:37 there should be stops at every "200." 800N, 1000N, 1200N, etc.* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 9:51:37 Odd and Even buses.... Norton, you're a genius!! * - osklister June 7, 2022, 10:02:06 We actually discussed it quite heavily here with Kimmerz (come back) and TIT (come back)* - reggiedunlop June 7, 2022, 9:49:03 and me, buddy* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 9:49:18 I was including you with the 'we'* - reggiedunlop June 7, 2022, 9:49:52 Plain English pod on this recently talked about how our environmental laws make this impossible - bigbop85 June 7, 2022, 9:41:05 like an order of magnitude higher, iirc* - torinese June 7, 2022, 11:54:27 We just added a 1.7 mile / 3 station subway spur for the cost of about 1.6 billion dollars... - haighter June 7, 2022, 9:47:00 you also have crazy high seismic regulations* - VIV June 7, 2022, 9:50:59 Yeah, you would need 100 billion (at least) and 25 years to do this - reggiedunlop June 7, 2022, 9:43:38 It took that much just to update the People Mover at ORD* - Dilbert June 7, 2022, 9:57:07 I'l just sit back and wait for Elon to solve all the world's transportation problems* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 9:58:15 ugh. pass* - Dilbert June 7, 2022, 11:59:47 I agree about the spill out on to roads. - Chicago1995 June 7, 2022, 8:59:03 i don't get why people go bonkers for raising cane's * - VIV June 7, 2022, 9:07:41 The sauce is like crack - imo really good* - bulldogmba June 7, 2022, 9:27:26 looks like it's mayo-based which is usually a pass for me* - VIV June 7, 2022, 9:33:51 Starbucks is such a ####ing scam - bjl63 June 7, 2022, 9:00:55 We classify areas of town as "Urban" "Traditional" and "Suburban" - ijustkrushalot June 7, 2022, 8:42:52 Could you expand upon this or link or something? This seems pretty interesting... - haighter June 7, 2022, 9:26:56 heh.. found the boards we used for an open house when we rewrote the code - ijustkrushalot June 7, 2022, 12:10:17 Can't wait to read this* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 12:15:11 maybe has to do with mixing of zones and the utilization of feeder streets, etc. - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 9:35:43 wtf is "traditional"?* - VIV June 7, 2022, 9:07:07 to some degree a term of convenience, but for us: - ijustkrushalot June 7, 2022, 11:47:07 "Now leaving Traditional Chicago"...."Welcome to Suburban Chicago".... - osklister June 7, 2022, 8:57:45 Welcome to San Francisco. * - haighter June 7, 2022, 7:41:37 There is a drive thru Starbucks near me that backs up into traffic on a daily basis* - CWR10 June 7, 2022, 7:40:24 All those drivers should be executed. Ticketed, at least.* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 7:50:39 All those drivers should be executed. Ticketed, at least.* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 7:50:37 Spoken like a dude with no kids* - Carl Spackler June 7, 2022, 7:31:26 This - bigbop85 June 7, 2022, 8:40:24 Yeah, but how often do you do that in Lincoln Park? Wouldn't that be - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 8:41:51 What about Tuesday night after soccer practice? Or just a long day running errands? - Chicago1995 June 7, 2022, 8:56:54 Of course, but then just go to one of the drive thrus that's within a quarter mile of an on/off ramp - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 8:59:04 McDonalds at Clark and Wrightwood and Fullerton and Clybourn - bigbop85 June 7, 2022, 8:53:54 Can't disagree with Clark and wrightwood having a drive more. However, Fullerton/clybourn - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 8:57:46 Haha that Wendy’s has the quickest drive thru ever - bigbop85 June 7, 2022, 9:24:44 the shared entrance and exit being just south of clyborn/ashland is a cluster####* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 9:31:01 *removes car seats to clean them...finds something growing on seats underneath** - lcubed June 7, 2022, 8:40:10 Eh…I have kids. Not having drive-throughs would make zero appreciable difference… - haighter June 7, 2022, 8:38:36 I'm certain there's a solution that would be convenient for parents* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 7:52:52 Like a drive thru?* - Dilbert June 7, 2022, 7:57:00 Terrible utilization of space and incredibly inefficient* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 8:03:53 how about this? - IlliniSax05 June 7, 2022, 8:10:25 Love this thing, Taco Bell rules.* - Warrin'_Illini June 7, 2022, 11:51:30 Can you send out a pen, I've got to sign the receipt.... - osklister June 7, 2022, 8:14:44 When's the last time you signed a receipt at a fast food place?* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 8:20:10 Good point. But what about sending out some dog biscuits? Extra lollipops for the kids in the car?? - osklister June 7, 2022, 9:00:00 That's better. The sonic model is much better than standard dive thru* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 8:12:43 How about this? You just drive your car close to the building, and someone hands you your order - doubledown June 7, 2022, 8:06:06 Great idea: - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 8:12:12 That’s the case for, what, 1% of drive-thrus? * - doubledown June 7, 2022, 8:19:44 Probably more: - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 8:26:25 The new Sbux in town is being built for a 19 car dedicated drive thru - Dilbert June 7, 2022, 8:46:21 That's ####ing ridiculous* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 8:49:21 Which part? - Dilbert June 7, 2022, 8:51:18 Well, you kind of answered with the "not walkable & no public transit" but - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 9:06:04 it is not open yet, but I will get you a picture next time I am over there - Dilbert June 7, 2022, 9:11:18 The Chik-Fil-A’s around here get crazy drive through lines like that - DT June 7, 2022, 8:15:40 The one close to me is worse - TarheelIllini June 7, 2022, 8:56:14 I love using the CFA app and either getting curbside delivery or just walk in... - shua June 7, 2022, 8:42:03 How about this, you park your car, and you either go inside or someone comes out - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 8:10:18 Wait, what if the employee was on roller skates? - osklister June 7, 2022, 8:16:05 Hopefully he's got nice stems* - longsnapper June 7, 2022, 8:21:06 Curbside pickup works just as well for me.* - ISeeDeadHawkeyes June 7, 2022, 7:53:55 In & Out should have to be in the middle of nowhere. They're a cancer. * - doubledown June 7, 2022, 7:27:47 a delicious cancer* - Tortillini June 7, 2022, 7:31:01 this* - bbonb June 7, 2022, 7:56:12 Middling at best. * - doubledown June 7, 2022, 7:34:44 I'm sure the lack of availability near me heightens its appeal - Tortillini June 7, 2022, 8:06:17 Mandated In & Out on every corner. Problem solved.* - ghost_of_clt June 7, 2022, 7:30:59   Searching