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Princess Marina Festoon Tiara Posted by MarcA on August 25, 2018, 4:39 pm The thread on Princess Toria and her Cartier tiara has set me thinking about this piece: http://www.tiara-mania.com/2014/10/kent-festoon-tiara.html The tiara seems to have little to no provenance, it just appeared according to Beth (whom I doubt the information is less than 100% accurate) with the DoK after QM deaths. It's creation is thought to be around the turn of the century and it apparently comes in a Cartier box with no attribution though as such. The Kent's I believe by that point at the end of WW11 were not very well off. Churchill described her as the only war widow in England to pay death duties so a purchase seems unlikely. PT died in 1935 and left pretty much everything, that we know of, to EDOK. If the Kents did get this and unless we haven't found a photo yet it sat unworn for 18 years. Franck wondered if PT left anything to QM? So it may have sat in the vaults for a number of numbers. Mind you I didn't think QM did unworn for a number of years. So where/whom did Maria get it from? To add a twist her mother died in 1957 and as is not unlikely her mother may have made a dispersal of jewels before then. What does anyone else think or know?

Re: Princess Marina Festoon Tiara Posted by Beth on August 25, 2018, 6:01 pm, in reply to "Princess Marina Festoon Tiara" I really don't know where to start in any reply Marc. It is a complicated matter. Every time I go back to research this tiara, I seem to get side tracked, so what I say may have little foundation. The earliest wearing of this tiara by the Duchess of Kent which I can find is at the coronation in 1953. That is why I say it did not appear until after the death of Queen Mary. I suspect that Queen Mary left the tiara to Princess Marina. I have also wondered if the tiara may have originally belonged to Queen Alexandra, who did have a diamond and pearl tiara -- but we have no photos of that. The other classic photo of Princess Marina wearing the tiara was not published in the press until the end of 1953. I think it is accepted that, after the death of the Duke of Kent, Princess Marina was short of money, so I cannot see that she would have purchased this herself as she had to sell furniture etc at various times. If Queen Mary left her a substantial amount of cash, perhaps she purchased it. But I am still inclined to the theory (and I stress it is just a theory) that Queen Mary left her this tiara. Unfortunately, I am not feeling 100% today but, if I am better tomorrow, I will upload the cuttings I have about Queen Alexandra's tiara.

Re: Princess Marina Festoon Tiara Posted by MarcA on August 25, 2018, 6:47 pm, in reply to "Re: Princess Marina Festoon Tiara" I also think that QM may have left it to Marina or it may have been also a piece purchased from the second wave of ship wrecked monarchies from WW2 but that's pure supposition. I also believe that QM also started to wear somewhat smaller tiara's post WW2 as well. Perhaps relegating a newly purchased piece to a wishful position. It would be very interesting if it is a QA piece as it could indicate a fair bit of QA's collection survived Mary's love of a reset. Previous Message I really don't know where to start in any reply Marc. It is a complicated matter. Every time I go back to research this tiara, I seem to get side tracked, so what I say may have little foundation. The earliest wearing of this tiara by the Duchess of Kent which I can find is at the coronation in 1953. That is why I say it did not appear until after the death of Queen Mary. I suspect that Queen Mary left the tiara to Princess Marina. I have also wondered if the tiara may have originally belonged to Queen Alexandra, who did have a diamond and pearl tiara -- but we have no photos of that. The other classic photo of Princess Marina wearing the tiara was not published in the press until the end of 1953. I think it is accepted that, after the death of the Duke of Kent, Princess Marina was short of money, so I cannot see that she would have purchased this herself as she had to sell furniture etc at various times. If Queen Mary left her a substantial amount of cash, perhaps she purchased it. But I am still inclined to the theory (and I stress it is just a theory) that Queen Mary left her this tiara. Unfortunately, I am not feeling 100% today but, if I am better tomorrow, I will upload the cuttings I have about Queen Alexandra's tiara.

Queen Alexandra wearing pearl and diamond tiara Posted by Beth on August 26, 2018, 5:31 am, in reply to "Re: Princess Marina Festoon Tiara" Note: As I mentioned yesterday I have not finished searching for information about Queen Alexandra's pearl and diamond tiara --so what is below is not complete; however, it does attest to the fact that she had a pearl and diamond tiara, which has flown under the radar. Shortly after her wedding Queen Alexandra (as Princess of Wales) was recorded wearing pearls and diamonds as part of her headdress. I presume that initially this may have been made with brooches as indicated by this report of a reception held in Denmark in September 1864. Times 24 September 1864 The following report does not make it clear if a tiara was used or if an improvised headdress was used for a Drawing Room held by Queen Victoria. Morning Post 10 March 1866. By 1868 the press was reporting a tiara being worn as for a banquet at Dublin Castle. Freeman's Journal 20 April 1868. I don't seem to have yet collected cuttings from the 1870s but there are numerous references to HM wearing a pearl and diamond tiara in the 1880s. Below are some - chosen at random. For a State Ball in July 1889 For a Drawing Room May 1889 For a State Concert What I have not been able to find is an image, either a photo or a sketch, of Queen Alexandra wearing this pearl and diamond tiara. It is possible that she may have used her wedding tiara with elements consisting of pearls and diamonds, or she may have had an entirely different, separate jewel. The Kent tiara, like the turquoise tiara now worn by Princess Astrid, has Gothic type spires as the dominant elements. Of course this is not proof that the Kent tiara was owned by Queen Alexandra. All I can prove is that Queen Alexandra did wear a pearl and diamond tiara. She continued to wear a similarly described item after she became Queen, but in that era she had access to the Diamond Diadem and it is most likely that she was wearing the diadem, especially on grand state occasions.

Re: Queen Alexandra wearing pearl and diamond tiara Posted by Dave on August 26, 2018, 6:54 am, in reply to "Queen Alexandra wearing pearl and diamond tiara" Nice Post guys. I think Beth has done it again in her research pointing to the tiara's arrival after QM's death. But it is possible it came from further back i.e. QA or from Princess Louis or Toria. Regards, Dave. Previous Message Note: As I mentioned yesterday I have not finished searching for information about Queen Alexandra's pearl and diamond tiara --so what is below is not complete; however, it does attest to the fact that she had a pearl and diamond tiara, which has flown under the radar. Shortly after her wedding Queen Alexandra (as Princess of Wales) was recorded wearing pearls and diamonds as part of her headdress. I presume that initially this may have been made with brooches as indicated by this report of a reception held in Denmark in September 1864. Times 24 September 1864 The following report does not make it clear if a tiara was used or if an improvised headdress was used for a Drawing Room held by Queen Victoria. Morning Post 10 March 1866. By 1868 the press was reporting a tiara being worn as for a banquet at Dublin Castle. Freeman's Journal 20 April 1868. I don't seem to have yet collected cuttings from the 1870s but there are numerous references to HM wearing a pearl and diamond tiara in the 1880s. Below are some - chosen at random. For a State Ball in July 1889 For a Drawing Room May 1889 For a State Concert What I have not been able to find is an image, either a photo or a sketch, of Queen Alexandra wearing this pearl and diamond tiara. It is possible that she may have used her wedding tiara with elements consisting of pearls and diamonds, or she may have had an entirely different, separate jewel. The Kent tiara, like the turquoise tiara now worn by Princess Astrid, has Gothic type spires as the dominant elements. Of course this is not proof that the Kent tiara was owned by Queen Alexandra. All I can prove is that Queen Alexandra did wear a pearl and diamond tiara. She continued to wear a similarly described item after she became Queen, but in that era she had access to the Diamond Diadem and it is most likely that she was wearing the diadem, especially on grand state occasions.

Re: Queen Alexandra wearing pearl and diamond tiara Posted by Beth on August 26, 2018, 2:04 pm, in reply to "Re: Queen Alexandra wearing pearl and diamond tiara" One of my pet "theories" is that it may have belonged to Queen Alexandra, but I cannot prove that. All I can prove is that Queen Alexandra had a pearl and diamond tiara.

Re: Princess Marina Festoon Tiara Posted by Franck on August 26, 2018, 5:47 am, in reply to "Re: Princess Marina Festoon Tiara" I also think that QM may have left the tiara to Marina. She might have been also given a collet necklace at the death of QM. Indeed I have noticed that she had/wore 2 collet necklaces + a longer collet necklace before the death of QM : [img][/img] After the death of QM she had/wore 3 collet necklaces + a longer collet necklace (I have seen a photo of QM wearing 4 collet necklaces at once) at the Shah's Visit in 1959 (See youtube). She might have worn her collet necklace (the shorter one) given by QM (maybe her own wedding present) with her pearl and diamond tiara also from QM for the first time at the coronation of QEII in 1953 : [img][/img] Franck Previous Message I also think that QM may have left it to Marina or it may have been also a piece purchased from the second wave of ship wrecked monarchies from WW2 but that's pure supposition. I also believe that QM also started to wear somewhat smaller tiara's post WW2 as well. Perhaps relegating a newly purchased piece to a wishful position. It would be very interesting if it is a QA piece as it could indicate a fair bit of QA's collection survived Mary's love of a reset. Previous Message I really don't know where to start in any reply Marc. It is a complicated matter. Every time I go back to research this tiara, I seem to get side tracked, so what I say may have little foundation. The earliest wearing of this tiara by the Duchess of Kent which I can find is at the coronation in 1953. That is why I say it did not appear until after the death of Queen Mary. I suspect that Queen Mary left the tiara to Princess Marina. I have also wondered if the tiara may have originally belonged to Queen Alexandra, who did have a diamond and pearl tiara -- but we have no photos of that. The other classic photo of Princess Marina wearing the tiara was not published in the press until the end of 1953. I think it is accepted that, after the death of the Duke of Kent, Princess Marina was short of money, so I cannot see that she would have purchased this herself as she had to sell furniture etc at various times. If Queen Mary left her a substantial amount of cash, perhaps she purchased it. But I am still inclined to the theory (and I stress it is just a theory) that Queen Mary left her this tiara. Unfortunately, I am not feeling 100% today but, if I am better tomorrow, I will upload the cuttings I have about Queen Alexandra's tiara.

Re: Princess Marina Bow Brooch Rivieres Posted by The Royal Watcher on August 27, 2018, 12:19 pm, in reply to "Re: Princess Marina Festoon Tiara" I wrote an article on Princess Marina's Bow Brooch, HERE, to mark the 50th Anniversary of her Death, and I noticed that it has a few rows of collet diamonds suspended from it when worn by Princess Nicholas and when displayed with the wedding gifts, and removed when worn by the Duchess. Maybe these were worn as necklaces (two or even three)?? Previous Message I really don't know where to start in any reply Marc. It is a complicated matter. Every time I go back to research this tiara, I seem to get side tracked, so what I say may have little foundation. The earliest wearing of this tiara by the Duchess of Kent which I can find is at the coronation in 1953. That is why I say it did not appear until after the death of Queen Mary. I suspect that Queen Mary left the tiara to Princess Marina. I have also wondered if the tiara may have originally belonged to Queen Alexandra, who did have a diamond and pearl tiara -- but we have no photos of that. The other classic photo of Princess Marina wearing the tiara was not published in the press until the end of 1953. I think it is accepted that, after the death of the Duke of Kent, Princess Marina was short of money, so I cannot see that she would have purchased this herself as she had to sell furniture etc at various times. If Queen Mary left her a substantial amount of cash, perhaps she purchased it. But I am still inclined to the theory (and I stress it is just a theory) that Queen Mary left her this tiara. Unfortunately, I am not feeling 100% today but, if I am better tomorrow, I will upload the cuttings I have about Queen Alexandra's tiara.

Re: Princess Marina Bow Brooch Rivieres Posted by Beth on August 28, 2018, 6:14 am, in reply to "Re: Princess Marina Bow Brooch Rivieres" Congratulations on your article - a lovely tribute. I have never been 100% sure of where all Princess Marina's collet necklaces originated, nor have I previously thought about the fate of the diamonds forming the swags under the bow brooch. I suspect that the diamonds would have been too small to have formed the central part of the collect necklaces, but definitely may have been used for the sections at the back of the necklaces, especially to lengthen one of them.

Re: Princess Marina Bow Brooch Rivieres Posted by Franck on August 28, 2018, 6:31 am, in reply to "Re: Princess Marina Bow Brooch Rivieres" I now have the impression that Princess Marina had 2 collet necklaces from QM and the diamonds forming the swags under the bow brooch were used to lengthen the necklaces (and on least the longer one !). Previous Message Congratulations on your article - a lovely tribute. I have never been 100% sure of where all Princess Marina's collet necklaces originated, nor have I previously thought about the fate of the diamonds forming the swags under the bow brooch. I suspect that the diamonds would have been too small to have formed the central part of the collect necklaces, but definitely may have been used for the sections at the back of the necklaces, especially to lengthen one of them.

Re: Princess Marina Rivieres Posted by The Royal Watcher on August 28, 2018, 4:30 pm, in reply to "Re: Princess Marina Bow Brooch Rivieres" Thank you Beth and Franck! I agree that these diamonds were probably used to lengthen necklaces! I think that the base of the Festoon Tiara could also be used as a riviere, so that could count towards an additional strand. Also, I wonder about the provenance of Princess Alexandra's Pearl and Diamond Necklace, and whether these diamonds from the brooch might have helped form that? Previous Message I now have the impression that Princess Marina had 2 collet necklaces from QM and the diamonds forming the swags under the bow brooch were used to lengthen the necklaces (and on least the longer one !). Previous Message Congratulations on your article - a lovely tribute. I have never been 100% sure of where all Princess Marina's collet necklaces originated, nor have I previously thought about the fate of the diamonds forming the swags under the bow brooch. I suspect that the diamonds would have been too small to have formed the central part of the collect necklaces, but definitely may have been used for the sections at the back of the necklaces, especially to lengthen one of them.

Re: Princess Marina Rivieres Posted by Beth on August 28, 2018, 7:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Princess Marina Rivieres" Princess Alexandra's necklace also appeared only after Queen Mary's death. And Queen Mary wore one which was remarkably similar. I floated the idea on the RJWMB at one stage. Jonathan said that he had seen a clearer image of Queen Mary wearing her necklace and seemed to think they were the same, but I have never seen a photo with sufficient definition/clarity which would prove that comprehensively. http://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/thread/1488441399.html

Re: Princess Marina Rivieres Posted by The Royal Watcher on August 28, 2018, 7:50 pm, in reply to "Re: Princess Marina Rivieres" Thanks for your reply Beth! I agree with you, it does look like Princess Alexandra's necklace originally belonged to Queen Mary! Your research is amazing, as always! Previous Message Princess Alexandra's necklace also appeared only after Queen Mary's death. And Queen Mary wore one which was remarkably similar. I floated the idea on the RJWMB at one stage. Jonathan said that he had seen a clearer image of Queen Mary wearing her necklace and seemed to think they were the same, but I have never seen a photo with sufficient definition/clarity which would prove that comprehensively. http://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/thread/1488441399.html

Re: Princess Marina Rivieres Posted by Franck on August 28, 2018, 10:54 pm, in reply to "Re: Princess Marina Rivieres" Beth! you are incredible ! I agree with you and the Royal Watcher ! it does look like Princess Alexandra's necklace originally belonged to Queen Mary! Previous Message Thanks for your reply Beth! I agree with you, it does look like Princess Alexandra's necklace originally belonged to Queen Mary! Your research is amazing, as always! Previous Message Princess Alexandra's necklace also appeared only after Queen Mary's death. And Queen Mary wore one which was remarkably similar. I floated the idea on the RJWMB at one stage. Jonathan said that he had seen a clearer image of Queen Mary wearing her necklace and seemed to think they were the same, but I have never seen a photo with sufficient definition/clarity which would prove that comprehensively. http://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/thread/1488441399.html

Re: Princess Marina Rivieres Posted by Dave on August 29, 2018, 1:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Princess Marina Rivieres" Provenance noted Beth, thanks for this find. Princess Alexandra although by now a minor royal did do her share for her family and her extended one that being the commonwealth nations. I suspect she is still rated highly by the Queen and other major royals and I now see she had jewellery to boot. I wonder with her eventual passing if her children will do the likely and put these historic pieces up for auction? Regards, Dave. Previous Message Princess Alexandra's necklace also appeared only after Queen Mary's death. And Queen Mary wore one which was remarkably similar. I floated the idea on the RJWMB at one stage. Jonathan said that he had seen a clearer image of Queen Mary wearing her necklace and seemed to think they were the same, but I have never seen a photo with sufficient definition/clarity which would prove that comprehensively. http://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/thread/1488441399.html

Re: Princess Marina Festoon Tiara Posted by 992234177 on August 28, 2018, 2:01 am, in reply to "Princess Marina Festoon Tiara" We know that QM gave The Duchess of Gloucester three tiaras; Honeysuckle Teck Turquoise Iveagh We believe that QM gave The Duchess of York three tiaras; Temple of Love Turquoise Teck Crescent and Star Delhi Durbar Since we know QM gave The Duchess of Kent two tiaras; Cambridge Sapphire Bandeau Isn’t it probable that there should be a third tiara?

Re: Princess Marina Festoon Tiara Posted by Beth on August 28, 2018, 6:20 am, in reply to "Re: Princess Marina Festoon Tiara" That is logical 992234177. I wish that the royal collection people would give us some clues by providing more information on the jewels of Queen Mary and Queen Alexandra.

Re: Princess Marina Festoon Tiara - interesting Posted by Franck on August 28, 2018, 6:27 am, in reply to "Re: Princess Marina Festoon Tiara" Dear 992234177, It is interesting ! we can also add for the the Duchess of York on least an other tiara : The fringe tiara and maybe the sapphire and diamond tiara. She also gave the following tiaras to Princess Mary, the Princess Royal : - Queen Victoria's sapphire and diamond tiara ; - A diamond honeysuckle tiara ; - A diamond fringe tiara ? - A Gothic Tiara- Enamel,Sapphire,Citrine and Diamond Arts and Crafts Diadem (From Royal Magazin) ; Therefore, I doubt that QM would have given only 2 tiaras to Princess Marina (I am now sure that QM also gave a collet necklace in 1953) Franck PS : I have now the impression that QEII was not given many tiaras in 1953 by QM (maybe 5 or 6 known tiaras ?). Previous Message We know that QM gave The Duchess of Gloucester three tiaras; Honeysuckle Teck Turquoise Iveagh We believe that QM gave The Duchess of York three tiaras; Temple of Love Turquoise Teck Crescent and Star Delhi Durbar Since we know QM gave The Duchess of Kent two tiaras; Cambridge Sapphire Bandeau Isn’t it probable that there should be a third tiara?

Re: Princess Marina Festoon Tiara Posted by Dave on August 28, 2018, 12:37 pm, in reply to "Re: Princess Marina Festoon Tiara" What a precise analogy 992234177. It leaves me to suspect QM of having no less than 25 or more tiaras during her life time. Regards, Dave. Previous Message We know that QM gave The Duchess of Gloucester three tiaras; Honeysuckle Teck Turquoise Iveagh We believe that QM gave The Duchess of York three tiaras; Temple of Love Turquoise Teck Crescent and Star Delhi Durbar Since we know QM gave The Duchess of Kent two tiaras; Cambridge Sapphire Bandeau Isn’t it probable that there should be a third tiara?

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