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The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch Posted by ErikS on November 4, 2019, 7:46 pm New research: the origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding brooch revealed http://www.erikschoonhoven.nl/royal-jewels/the-origins-of-queen-victoria-s-wedding-brooch

Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch Posted by Dave on November 5, 2019, 1:02 am, in reply to "The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch" Such a wonderful discovery ErikS, hurray and thank you. I wonder if any other jewels were acquired by QV's father in law for the occasion. The article spoke about a smaller sapphire surrounded by brilliants and strings of pearls. Could this have been the one worn by the late PD or indeed the one worn by the PR? Unless I have mixed up things while reading, it sounds as if they were two such sapphires sent to London. Regards, Dave. Previous Message New research: the origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding brooch revealed http://www.erikschoonhoven.nl/royal-jewels/the-origins-of-queen-victoria-s-wedding-brooch

Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch Posted by ErikS on November 5, 2019, 2:22 am, in reply to "Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch" ha, thank you One of the reasons why I included that last list of jewels (on offer by Jitta) is because it might help in possible new identifications. From memory: there are 2 smaller sapphire brooches in the BRF. 1 of them was acquired shortly after the original acquisition, the other one: story unknown. One was worn by PR, the other one left the family with Princess Mary, Countess of Harewood. Previous Message Such a wonderful discovery ErikS, hurray and thank you. I wonder if any other jewels were acquired by QV's father in law for the occasion. The article spoke about a smaller sapphire surrounded by brilliants and strings of pearls. Could this have been the one worn by the late PD or indeed the one worn by the PR? Unless I have mixed up things while reading, it sounds as if they were two such sapphires sent to London. Regards, Dave.

Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch Posted by Beth on November 5, 2019, 6:07 am, in reply to "Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch" Thank you so much ErikS!! Theo Toebosch's research throws a whole new light on the history of this brooch. The description of the jewel offered to the Duke of Coburg and, importantly, the time frame and the offer to deliver it to London is convincing evidence. I wonder what evidence Garrard used for their claim to have made the brooch? I note that the firm says that Albert "secretly" commissioned the jewel? See Garrard's site https://www.garrard.com/the-house/journal/royal-wedding-garrards-historic-involvement/ Is this the painting you referred to -- Winterhalter's 1845 painting of Queen Victoria?

Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch Posted by ErikS on November 5, 2019, 5:20 pm, in reply to "Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch" Yes, that painting The Royal Collection isn't aware of such a theory and I noticed in a previous Garrard website they implied that Albert bought the brooch from them. It seems their PR department went overboard (I'm not sure if this is correct English) this time. Previous Message Thank you so much ErikS!! Theo Toebosch's research throws a whole new light on the history of this brooch. The description of the jewel offered to the Duke of Coburg and, importantly, the time frame and the offer to deliver it to London is convincing evidence. I wonder what evidence Garrard used for their claim to have made the brooch? I note that the firm says that Albert "secretly" commissioned the jewel? See Garrard's site https://www.garrard.com/the-house/journal/royal-wedding-garrards-historic-involvement/ Is this the painting you referred to -- Winterhalter's 1845 painting of Queen Victoria?

Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch Posted by Beth on November 6, 2019, 4:49 am, in reply to "Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch" Are you saying that the Royal Collection isn't aware of the Garrard claim (as per the website)? Previous Message Yes, that painting The Royal Collection isn't aware of such a theory and I noticed in a previous Garrard website they implied that Albert bought the brooch from them. It seems their PR department went overboard (I'm not sure if this is correct English) this time. Previous Message

Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch Posted by ErikS on November 5, 2019, 5:38 pm, in reply to "Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch" I emailed Garrard asking them for evidence and pointing out my article to them. Previous Message Thank you so much ErikS!! Theo Toebosch's research throws a whole new light on the history of this brooch. The description of the jewel offered to the Duke of Coburg and, importantly, the time frame and the offer to deliver it to London is convincing evidence. I wonder what evidence Garrard used for their claim to have made the brooch? I note that the firm says that Albert "secretly" commissioned the jewel? See Garrard's site https://www.garrard.com/the-house/journal/royal-wedding-garrards-historic-involvement/ Is this the painting you referred to -- Winterhalter's 1845 painting of Queen Victoria?

Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch Posted by Beth on November 6, 2019, 4:50 am, in reply to "Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch" It will be interesting to see if the firm responds and what their reply might be. Previous Message I emailed Garrard asking them for evidence and pointing out my article to them. Previous Message Thank you so much ErikS!! Theo Toebosch's research throws a whole new light on the history of this brooch. The description of the jewel offered to the Duke of Coburg and, importantly, the time frame and the offer to deliver it to London is convincing evidence. I wonder what evidence Garrard used for their claim to have made the brooch? I note that the firm says that Albert "secretly" commissioned the jewel? See Garrard's site https://www.garrard.com/the-house/journal/royal-wedding-garrards-historic-involvement/ Is this the painting you referred to -- Winterhalter's 1845 painting of Queen Victoria?

Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch Posted by MarcA on November 5, 2019, 7:53 pm, in reply to "Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch" Whats the pearl brooch? The pearls on the necklace as well look huge. I wonder if they are the Anne & Mary pearls or something else? Previous Message Thank you so much ErikS!! Theo Toebosch's research throws a whole new light on the history of this brooch. The description of the jewel offered to the Duke of Coburg and, importantly, the time frame and the offer to deliver it to London is convincing evidence. I wonder what evidence Garrard used for their claim to have made the brooch? I note that the firm says that Albert "secretly" commissioned the jewel? See Garrard's site https://www.garrard.com/the-house/journal/royal-wedding-garrards-historic-involvement/ Is this the painting you referred to -- Winterhalter's 1845 painting of Queen Victoria?

Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch Posted by Beth on November 6, 2019, 5:18 am, in reply to "Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch" I think that the pearl brooch mentioned in the article is the one in the pearl and diamond set given to Queen Alexandra as a wedding gift by Edward VII Queen Alexandra is wearing it on the centre of her bodice in the photo below. The pearls worn by QEII on her wedding day (as seen in the photo on the Garrard site) are the Queens Anne and Caroline pearl necklaces. They were left to the crown by Queen Victoria to be worn by Queens regnant and consort. King George VI gave them to QEII as a wedding gift. Previous Message Whats the pearl brooch? The pearls on the necklace as well look huge. I wonder if they are the Anne & Mary pearls or something else?

(no subject) Posted by Stefan on November 6, 2019, 4:54 pm, in reply to "Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch" I think MarcA was referrring to the big pearl-broosc worn by Qzueen Victoria in the painting ypou posted. Did Queen Alexandra's pearl broosh originally belong to Queen Victoria? Previous Message I think that the pearl brooch mentioned in the article is the one in the pearl and diamond set given to Queen Alexandra as a wedding gift by Edward VII Queen Alexandra is wearing it on the centre of her bodice in the photo below. The pearls worn by QEII on her wedding day (as seen in the photo on the Garrard site) are the Queens Anne and Caroline pearl necklaces. They were left to the crown by Queen Victoria to be worn by Queens regnant and consort. King George VI gave them to QEII as a wedding gift. Previous Message Whats the pearl brooch? The pearls on the necklace as well look huge. I wonder if they are the Anne & Mary pearls or something else?

Re: (no subject) Posted by Beth on November 7, 2019, 4:40 am, in reply to "(no subject)" Thanks for alerting me to my confusion Stefan. For some reason my mind was focused on the Garrard site. I don't think that the pearl brooch depicted in the 1845 Winterhalter painting of Queen Victoria had any connection with Queen Alexandra's wedding gift brooch. Hugh Roberts in The Queen's Diamonds p 88 cites the Garrard ledger entry, dated 5 Dec 1862. The brooch alone cost Edward VII 2,650 pounds. At the time of the wedding the press reported the pearl necklace, brooch and earrings as new creations.

Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch Posted by MarcA on November 6, 2019, 5:28 pm, in reply to "Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch" When I was writing Mary & Anne rather Anne & Caroline it felt wrong! I thought the brooch was the similar to the one Queen Alexandra received for her wedding but thought that brooch was made as part of the parure she received . It's curious because if it had been a gift from the Queen you'd think we'd know. However it may not have been listed if it was given to Edward a way before so he could have the necklace and earrings made to match. Previous Message I think that the pearl brooch mentioned in the article is the one in the pearl and diamond set given to Queen Alexandra as a wedding gift by Edward VII Queen Alexandra is wearing it on the centre of her bodice in the photo below. The pearls worn by QEII on her wedding day (as seen in the photo on the Garrard site) are the Queens Anne and Caroline pearl necklaces. They were left to the crown by Queen Victoria to be worn by Queens regnant and consort. King George VI gave them to QEII as a wedding gift. Previous Message Whats the pearl brooch? The pearls on the necklace as well look huge. I wonder if they are the Anne & Mary pearls or something else?

Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch Posted by Beth on November 7, 2019, 4:49 am, in reply to "Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch" Apologies for misunderstanding MarcA and for causing confusion. You are correct Marc. Queen Alexandra's wedding brooch was a new creation. Roberts cites Garrard sources for that, as did the contemporary press. I think that the necklace depicted in Winterhalter's 1845 painting of Queen Victoria is meant to be the Queens Anne and Caroline necklaces, although the artist has exaggerated the size of the pearls. Does anyone know anything more about Queen Victoria's brooch in the 1845 painting?

Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch Posted by MarcA on November 7, 2019, 9:09 pm, in reply to "Re: The origins of Queen Victoria's Wedding Brooch" The interesting thing is though Beth maybe you are onto something. The brooch is very similar to QA's wedding brooch yet the portrait was obviously done way before the marriage. Previous Message Apologies for misunderstanding MarcA and for causing confusion. You are correct Marc. Queen Alexandra's wedding brooch was a new creation. Roberts cites Garrard sources for that, as did the contemporary press. I think that the necklace depicted in Winterhalter's 1845 painting of Queen Victoria is meant to be the Queens Anne and Caroline necklaces, although the artist has exaggerated the size of the pearls. Does anyone know anything more about Queen Victoria's brooch in the 1845 painting?

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