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Queen Alexandra / Queen Mary Same collet necklace ? Posted by Franck on April 20, 2020, 6:05 am Hello Just a question : I think it can be the same small diamond collet necklace ? (The first one worn below the choker and the same one worn by QA). Last but not least I wish I would have one day information about the huge diamond collet necklace worn by Queen Alexandra. I do hope that this necklace was inherited by QM and remains in the main branch...but I do think that my wish is not realized. Photos taken from internet. Franck

Re: Queen Alexandra / Queen Mary Same collet necklace ? Posted by Beth on April 20, 2020, 5:55 pm, in reply to "Queen Alexandra / Queen Mary Same collet necklace ? " The large diamond necklace on Queen Alexandra's velvet choker is her City of London wedding gift shortened. In his book on the Queen's diamonds, Hugh Roberts said that HM wore it occasionally on a velvet band as a choker (page 94). The necklace was inherited by Queen Mary who left it to QEII. Roberts identified it as the one worn by QEII in Toronto in 2010. It is one of the few diamond necklaces for which there is information about the carat weight etc. Queen Mary The photo of Queen Mary was taken before the coronation in 1911. We know this for certain as some years ago Nellie of RJWMB discovered a copy of the photo published in the Illustrated London News. The full photo Comparison showing both images are from same occasion After the death of Edward VII Queen Alexandra tried to keep certain jewels but Queen Mary won the battle, except for Queen Victoria's small diamond crown which had been left personally to Queen Alexandra. Because of the tension I very much doubt if Queen Alexandra would have given Queen Mary one of her necklaces.

Re: Queen Alexandra / Queen Mary Same collet necklace ? Posted by Franck on April 20, 2020, 6:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Queen Alexandra / Queen Mary Same collet necklace ? " Dear Beth, Thank you so much for your very kind answer. Please apologize me. I did a mistake. I wanted to say the small diamond necklace worn below the City of London wedding gifts and above the huge diamond pendant necklace. Once again, please find my apologize. Franck Previous Message The large diamond necklace on Queen Alexandra's velvet choker is her City of London wedding gift shortened. In his book on the Queen's diamonds, Hugh Roberts said that HM wore it occasionally on a velvet band as a choker (page 94). The necklace was inherited by Queen Mary who left it to QEII. Roberts identified it as the one worn by QEII in Toronto in 2010. It is one of the few diamond necklaces for which there is information about the carat weight etc. Queen Mary The photo of Queen Mary was taken before the coronation in 1911. We know this for certain as some years ago Nellie of RJWMB discovered a copy of the photo published in the Illustrated London News . The full photo Comparison showing both images are from same occasion After the death of Edward VII Queen Alexandra tried to keep certain jewels but Queen Mary won the battle, except for Queen Victoria's small diamond crown which had been left personally to Queen Alexandra. Because of the tension I very much doubt if Queen Alexandra would have given Queen Mary one of her necklaces.

Re: Queen Alexandra / Queen Mary Same collet necklace ? Posted by Beth on April 20, 2020, 7:27 pm, in reply to "Re: Queen Alexandra / Queen Mary Same collet necklace ? " I am the one who has to apologise Franck. I should have been more precise in how I answered, as I knew you were asking about the small diamond collet necklace. I cannot tell one small diamond necklace from another as my eye is not good enough. But I don't think that Queen Alexandra would have given Queen Mary one of her own rivieres, especially around 1911 when there was some considerable tension between the ladies over who could wear certain heirlooms of the crown.

Re: Queen Alexandra / Queen Mary Same collet necklace ? Posted by Franck on April 20, 2020, 8:18 pm, in reply to "Re: Queen Alexandra / Queen Mary Same collet necklace ? " You are right about the tension between the two ladies around 1911. Just a quick question : must we say ? : to apologize or to apologise. Previous Message I am the one who has to apologise Franck. I should have been more precise in how I answered, as I knew you were asking about the small diamond collet necklace. I cannot tell one small diamond necklace from another as my eye is not good enough. But I don't think that Queen Alexandra would have given Queen Mary one of her own rivieres, especially around 1911 when there was some considerable tension between the ladies over who could wear certain heirlooms of the crown.

Re: Queen Alexandra / Queen Mary Same collet necklace ? Posted by Csaba on April 20, 2020, 10:37 pm, in reply to "Re: Queen Alexandra / Queen Mary Same collet necklace ? " Can this tension be the reason why queen Alexandra left her grand Rundell tiara to Princess Victoria rather than queen Mary? Like a 'revenge' Previous Message You are right about the tension between the two ladies around 1911. Just a quick question : must we say ? : to apologize or to apologise. Previous Message I am the one who has to apologise Franck. I should have been more precise in how I answered, as I knew you were asking about the small diamond collet necklace. I cannot tell one small diamond necklace from another as my eye is not good enough. But I don't think that Queen Alexandra would have given Queen Mary one of her own rivieres, especially around 1911 when there was some considerable tension between the ladies over who could wear certain heirlooms of the crown.

Re: Queen Alexandra / Queen Mary Same collet necklace ? Posted by 992234177 on April 21, 2020, 12:32 am, in reply to "Re: Queen Alexandra / Queen Mary Same collet necklace ? " I’ve got the impression, which might be false that they were divided up after her death intestate. Presumably Queen Mary/King George V got her Russian tiara, QV’s sapphires, George IV circlet, her diamond and her diamond and Pearl Résille necklaces and her Dagmar necklace. They did pretty well.

Re: Queen Alexandra / Queen Mary Same collet necklace ? Posted by Csaba on April 21, 2020, 4:15 am, in reply to "Re: Queen Alexandra / Queen Mary Same collet necklace ? " Queen Alexandra left written notes how her jewellery would be divided. So she didn't leave anything to chance. It is the fact that the Rundell tiara was a gift of her husband and formed part of a parure that makes me suspicious of a revenge. It was Alexandra's most important tiara. Although princess Victoria did stay unmarried and remained by her mother's side until her death so she definitely deserved something important... Previous Message I’ve got the impression, which might be false that they were divided up after her death intestate. Presumably Queen Mary/King George V got her Russian tiara, QV’s sapphires, George IV circlet, her diamond and her diamond and Pearl Résille necklaces and her Dagmar necklace. They did pretty well.

Re: Queen Alexandra / Queen Mary Same collet necklace ? Posted by Beth on April 21, 2020, 8:14 am, in reply to "Re: Queen Alexandra / Queen Mary Same collet necklace ? " As we know Queen Alexandra died intestate. In his biography of Queen Mary James Pope Hennessy referred to Queen Mary saying that some of the children had met to discuss and divide between them Queen Alexandra's jewels. That gave many the impression that it was King George and Queen Mary who determined who got what. Then when Hugh Roberts published The Queen's Diamonds he noted that Queen Alexandra had left notations in the inventory of her jewels about who got which jewels. But, as Queen Alexandra did not leave a legal will, there is no guarantee that her wishes were strictly adhered to. The King, as her legal next of kin, may have decided to implement her wishes entirely, or to make adjustments for any reason he saw fit. We know where some of the jewels went, but not all. I have always wondered whether Queen Alexandra would have noted that the emeralds given to her by North and South Wales were to go to the then Duke of York. We know that Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother commenced wearing the emerald earrings (as pendants on her pearls) shortly after Queen Alexandra's death, but not who formally received them. At times I have the impression that George V may have kept all the major gifts from civic bodies and then given them to individuals. Clearly QEQM had the emerald earrings which were part of the gift of North Wales, but she was never seen wearing the Prince of Wales feather brooch and only commenced wearing the Welsh Leek brooch and the emerald bracelet given by South Wales after she became Queen.

Beth do you know who the lady is stood next to Queen Elizabeth? Posted by Janet on April 21, 2020, 11:51 pm, in reply to "Re: Queen Alexandra / Queen Mary Same collet necklace ? " I have seen that huge diamond corsage before, but in an auction picture not worn. I would love to know who she is. Do you know?

Re: Beth do you know who the lady is stood next to Queen Elizabeth? Posted by Beth on April 22, 2020, 6:18 am, in reply to "Beth do you know who the lady is stood next to Queen Elizabeth?" The lady next to QEQM in the photo is the Duchess of Beaufort, Queen Mary's niece. The occasion was a theatre evening in July 1933. I discovered this through press reports some years ago when the same question was asked. Below are some of the news items I posted about it all twice on the Royal Jewels of the world message board, but can only find the second occasion now. Here is the link https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/msg/1512552961.html Ursula also has an item https://royal-magazin.de/england/teck-cambridge/beaufort-tiara-stomacher-diamonds-ribbon-bow-devante-de-corsage.htm

I dont think there is any evidence... Posted by Janet on April 22, 2020, 12:24 am, in reply to "Re: Queen Alexandra / Queen Mary Same collet necklace ? " of the act of revenge act that you want to pin on Queen Alexandra. Had she wanted to, she could have made a will giving all her jewels to her grandchildren or daughters. All of Alexandra's children had a decent share of her jewels, it being quite logical in the circumstances that George V would receive the most prestigious share. However I don't find it odd that Queen Alexandra would want her unmarried daughter, who had scarified her own happiness and independence to have an important tiara, after all her daughter Queen Maud received Queen Alexandra's coronet. The Rundell tiara was arguably the tiara most associated with Queen Alexandra and would likely be one of the more valuable items. Given the political uncertainty that existed in the UK in the 1920s and having seen what had happened to her sister's family and the advantage having jewels had brought to them in exile, Queen Alexandra may have wanted her single daughter to have a valuable piece to sell if she needed to, as she wouldn't have a husband to support her. There seems to have been some initial tenseness after George V's succession between the two Queens over precedence and jewels but I think it is important not to exaggerate the seriousness of this causing some long lasting dislike between the two women as there simply isn't the evidence to support this largely in part I suspect because: i) Queen Alexandra preferred the quiet life of Sandringham so her ability to wear the jewels and exert precedence were somewhat limited; ii) In contrast say to the Russian situation, neither Queen Alexandra or Queen Mary were of the mindset to try and create a situation where George V felt he had to pick between his wife and mother.

Re: I dont think there is any evidence... Posted by 992234177 on April 22, 2020, 4:09 am, in reply to "I dont think there is any evidence..." perhaps also Queen Alexandra was used to seeing her sister take precedence over her niece. When the tsar and tsarina married there was a mad rush to replace jewels that Maria took. Sapphire tiara, emerald tiara and pearl and diamond tiara. Maybe Queen Alexandra was a little put out by walking behind Queen Mary. In many photos of the two queens, for example at weddings they walk together. Perhaps this was a conscious effort by Mary to equalise their positions, knowing how difficult it must have been for Alexandra.

Re: I dont think there is any evidence... Posted by Csaba on April 22, 2020, 4:35 am, in reply to "I dont think there is any evidence..." That's why I've put revenge in '' in my first post. The other question might be :what did Victoria do with the tiara? Disposed of... Did she sell it? Why did Queen Mary not buy it? Maybe there were 'special instructions' that it should never end up in the hands of Queen Mary! 😉 Previous Message of the act of revenge act that you want to pin on Queen Alexandra. Had she wanted to, she could have made a will giving all her jewels to her grandchildren or daughters. All of Alexandra's children had a decent share of her jewels, it being quite logical in the circumstances that George V would receive the most prestigious share. However I don't find it odd that Queen Alexandra would want her unmarried daughter, who had scarified her own happiness and independence to have an important tiara, after all her daughter Queen Maud received Queen Alexandra's coronet. The Rundell tiara was arguably the tiara most associated with Queen Alexandra and would likely be one of the more valuable items. Given the political uncertainty that existed in the UK in the 1920s and having seen what had happened to her sister's family and the advantage having jewels had brought to them in exile, Queen Alexandra may have wanted her single daughter to have a valuable piece to sell if she needed to, as she wouldn't have a husband to support her. There seems to have been some initial tenseness after George V's succession between the two Queens over precedence and jewels but I think it is important not to exaggerate the seriousness of this causing some long lasting dislike between the two women as there simply isn't the evidence to support this largely in part I suspect because: i) Queen Alexandra preferred the quiet life of Sandringham so her ability to wear the jewels and exert precedence were somewhat limited; ii) In contrast say to the Russian situation, neither Queen Alexandra or Queen Mary were of the mindset to try and create a situation where George V felt he had to pick between his wife and mother.

Re: Queen Alexandra / Queen Mary Same collet necklace ? Posted by Beth on April 21, 2020, 7:08 am, in reply to "Re: Queen Alexandra / Queen Mary Same collet necklace ? " Both forms of spelling are correct. The choice of whether to use a "z" or a "s" largely depends on which country a person lives in. Some tend to follow the UK system and use a "s". Some follow the US system and use a "z". The spell check system on this board is based on the US spelling system. The two different systems also influence whether people use "ou" or just "o" in numerous words. I instinctively use the English spelling system.

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