Posters of original research, analyses, insights etc retain all rights to their work. Such research etc cannot be used in any format without the written consent of the author.

Family order of George IV Posted by DavoST on May 1, 2020, 9:56 pm Hi, my first post here. My name is Davo, from Melbourne, Australia. Have lurked for about a month. Loving reading all your posts. Lately I’ve been doing some research on the beautiful bejewelled royal family orders – both UK and similar counterparts elsewhere. I wanted to share some results and seek your thoughts or advice. I’ll start with the family order of George IV, but will get to others in future posts. I’ve been looking at different publications and the online collection holdings of the National Portrait Gallery (NPG), and the Royal Collection Trust (RCT). Most sources list three badges in the RCT. These belongs to the King’s Sister, The Princess Royal (later the Queen of Württemberg), his sister-in-law, the Duchess of Cambridge, and his niece Princess Augusta of Cambridge (later the Grand Duchess of Mecklenburg-Strelitz). There is no list of recipients included in Risk et al’s Royal Service Volume II, which has an opening chapter, “The Royal Family Orders and the Royal Order of Victoria and Albert”, which lists those awarded the orders from the VA onwards. So to ascertain who else may have been given the order by George IV I’ve looked for evidence of recipients the three groups of female relatives where badges exist. In Royal Insignia, Stephen Patterson reproduces the three different sized badges in the royal collection (pg133): one each belonging to a sister, sister-n-law and niece of George IV. Patterson’s notes record that in 1821 Rundell, Bridge and Rundell provided him with 11 jewelled badges/medallion. They were billed to the King in RA26021-22, “for four medallion at £234 each, one at £195, a smaller piece for £66 an yet another for £135. In July 1821 (RA 26026-27) Rundell supplied another medallion in ‘form of laurel round His Majesty’s Picture’ for £390, another in same design for £398, and two more on 28 July for £234 each.”(pg203) So we know that in 1821 there were 2 x type at £390/398 6 x type at £234 1 x type at £195 1 x type at £135 1 x type at £60 Patterson suggests, “All can be presumed to be gifts to be given around the time of the King’s Coronation in July that year.”(pg.203) (He also notes that in 1815 a large similar badge for £1243. He says notes annotated later on the 1815 bill suggest that piece was given to the Duchess of Cumberland as a wedding present.) We can assume that Queen Victoria’s badge, given in 1828, Princess Augusta of Cambridge’s were probably made around that time. So, let’s examine the evidence for each group of relatives in the following posts...

Re: Family order of George IV - Sisters - Princess Charlotte Augusta Matilda, Princess Royal (Queen Posted by DavoST on May 1, 2020, 10:01 pm, in reply to "Family order of George IV" • Sisters 1. Her Royal Highness The Princess Charlotte Augusta Matilda, Princess Royal (Queen of Württemberg) * badge RCT type 1

Re: Family order of George IV - Sisters - Princess Augusta Sophia Posted by DavoST on May 1, 2020, 10:03 pm, in reply to "Family order of George IV" 2. Her Royal Highness The Princess Augusta Sophia * Painting – Coronation sacrament 1838 . https://www.rct.uk/sites/default/files/256454-1330622844.jpg key to painting at https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portrait/mw148545/Key-to-Mr-Leslies-picture-of-Queen-Victoria-receiving-the-Holy-Sacrament-at-her-Coronation Queen Victoria’s wedding https://www.rct.uk/collection/themes/exhibitions/queen-victorias-palace/buckingham-palace/the-marriage-of-queen-victoria-10-february-1840 https://www.rct.uk/collection/751139/the-marriage-of-queen-victoria-10-feb-1840

Re: Family order of George IV - sisters - The Princess Elizabeth (The Landgravine of Hesse-Homburg) Posted by DavoST on May 1, 2020, 10:09 pm, in reply to "Family order of George IV" 3. Her Royal Highness The Princess Elizabeth (The Landgravine of Hesse-Homburg) I have found nothing so far. Does anyone know of an image of her wearing one of the badges?

Re: Family order of George IV - Sisters - The Princess Mary, Duchess of Gloucester Posted by DavoST on May 1, 2020, 10:12 pm, in reply to "Family order of George IV" 4. Her Royal Highness The Princess Mary, Duchess of Gloucester and Edinburgh * Portrait by Sir Thomas Lawrence . see… https://www.rct.uk/collection/403421/princess-mary-duchess-of-gloucester-1776-1857

Re: Family order of George IV - Sisters - The Princess Sophia Posted by DavoST on May 1, 2020, 10:13 pm, in reply to "Family order of George IV" 5. Her Royal Highness The Princess Sophia  Portrait by Sir Thomas Lawrence see… . https://www.rct.uk/collection/403420/princess-sophia-1777-1848

Re: Family order of George IV - Sisters-in-law - The Duchess of Clarence (Queen Adelaide) Posted by DavoST on May 1, 2020, 10:16 pm, in reply to "Family order of George IV" 1. Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Clarence (Queen Adelaide) * Painting – Christening 1840 by Charles Leslie . https://www.rct.uk/collection/404467/the-christening-of-victoria-princess-royal-10-february-1841 Possibly also at QV wedding

Re: Family order of George IV - Sisters-in-law - The Duchess Kent (Mother of Queen Victoria) Posted by DavoST on May 1, 2020, 10:19 pm, in reply to "Family order of George IV" 2. Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Kent (QV mother) * Painting – Christening 1840 (right) . https://www.rct.uk/collection/404467/the-christening-of-victoria-princess-royal-10-february-1841 possibly at QV wedding (see above) & Bust https://www.rct.uk/collection/search#/21/collection/41222/the-duchess-of-kent

Re: Family order of George IV - Sisters-in-law - The Duchess of Cumberland (Queen Frederica of Hanov Posted by DavoST on May 1, 2020, 10:21 pm, in reply to "Family order of George IV" 3. Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Cumberland (Queen Frederica of Hanover) *Portrait . https://www.rct.uk/collection/421891/frederica-duchess-of-cumberland-1778-1841-queen-of-hanover

Re: Family order of George IV - Sisters-in-law - The Duchess ofCambridge (Princess Augusta of Hesse- Posted by DavoST on May 1, 2020, 10:24 pm, in reply to "Family order of George IV" 4. Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Cambridge (Princess Augusta of Hesse-Kassel) * Badge RCT type 2 . & Painting of QV Coronation, baptism of Princess Victoria the Princess Royal (left of Duchess of Kent see her post above)

Re: Family order of George IV - Cousin - Princess Sophia Matilda of Gloucester Posted by DavoST on May 1, 2020, 10:28 pm, in reply to "Family order of George IV" Cousin Her Royal Highness Princess Sophia Matilda of Gloucester * Painting of QV marriage by Hayter . She is front right. Note front left is Princess Augusta of Cambridge, back left is Duchess of Kent, back right is The Princess Augusta Sophia https://www.rct.uk/collection/themes/exhibitions/queen-victorias-palace/buckingham-palace/the-marriage-of-queen-victoria-10-february-1840 https://www.rct.uk/collection/751139/the-marriage-of-queen-victoria-10-feb-1840

Re: Family order of George IV - Nieces - Princess Alexandrina Victoria of Kent (Queen Victoria) Posted by DavoST on May 1, 2020, 10:32 pm, in reply to "Family order of George IV" 1. Her Royal Highness Princess Alexandrina Victoria of Kent (HM Queen Victoria) Born 1819 * Badge & miniature, RCT collection type 3, portrait etc. presented in 1828.

Re: Family order of George IV - Nieces - Princess Augusta of Cambridge, Grand Duchess of Mecklenburg Posted by DavoST on May 1, 2020, 10:36 pm, in reply to "Family order of George IV" Her Royal Highness Princess Augusta of Cambridge (Grand Duchess of Mecklenburg-Strelitz) Born 1822 *Badge RCT type 3 and Portrait presented? https://www.rct.uk/collection/themes/exhibitions/queen-victorias-palace/buckingham-palace/the-marriage-of-queen-victoria-10-february-1840 https://www.rct.uk/collection/751139/the-marriage-of-queen-victoria-10-feb-1840 https://www.rct.uk/collection/search#/23/collection/2109487/portrait-photograph-of-augusta-caroline-grand-duchess-of-mecklenburg-strelitz https://www.rct.uk/collection/search#/9/collection/2109497/portrait-photograph-of-augusta-caroline-grand-duchess-of-mecklenburg-strelitz

Re: Family order of George IV - Nieces - Princess Augusta of Cambridge, Grand Duchess of Mecklenburg Posted by DavoST on May 1, 2020, 10:58 pm, in reply to "Re: Family order of George IV - Nieces - Princess Augusta of Cambridge, Grand Duchess of Mecklenburg" at Edward VII's coronation in 1902 "Aunt Augusta is photographed wearing the type 2 sized badge of her mother, the late Duchess of Cambridge. This badge had been inherited by her sister Princess Mary Adelaide Duchess of Teck, then by her daughter May, the Princess of Wales in 1902. It seemed she loaned the larger badge to her Aunt. . I wonder what happened to the Duchess of Teck's own badge? Must have been inherited by one of her sons.

Re: Family order of George IV - Nieces - Princess Mary Adelaide of Cambridge Posted by DavoST on May 1, 2020, 10:42 pm, in reply to "Family order of George IV" 3. Her Royal Highness Princess Mary Adelaide of Cambridge (Duchess of Teck), Born 1833 (Wearing in photos & portraits, but born too late) . Also wearing the Roses and Cresents tiara, inherited the previous year from The Princess Mary, Duchess of Gloucester and Edinburgh. https://www.rct.uk/sites/default/files/collection-online/e/d/256421-1528188049.jpg https://www.rct.uk/sites/default/files/collection-online/9/5/255178-1533310481.jpg https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/77429036/7841342

Re: Family order of George IV - summary and major dilemma Posted by DavoST on May 1, 2020, 10:51 pm, in reply to "Family order of George IV" Firstly, we have evidence/imagery for all of the King’s sisters, sisters-in-law, cousin, and nieces with the exception of his sister Elizabeth, The Landgravine of Hesse-Homburg. As his other sister living in mainland Europe was presented with one, we can assume that she also was. Perhaps these two received the larger (£390+) badges. My dilemma is that his niece Princess Mary Adelaide of Cambridge was born in 1833, whereas King George IV died in 1830! Bit spooky that! Yet we have evidence that she wore one of the type 3 sized badges in the royal collection with pride,at Royal events during her adulthood. Indeed the main photograph and painting showing her wearing the insignia is from 1893 for the wedding of her daughter May to the Duke of York. Wearing George IV type 3, VA type 2, QV Golden Jubilee medal, Crown of India and other medals. She was also shown wearing in painting of the wedding of the Princess Royal in 1858. Any thoughts on how she came to have this order?

Re: Family order of George IV - summary and major dilemma Posted by DavoST on May 1, 2020, 11:58 pm, in reply to "Re: Family order of George IV - summary and major dilemma" .

Re: Family order of George IV Posted by Knightship on May 2, 2020, 12:53 am, in reply to "Family order of George IV" Wow - impressive reasearch DavoST! I really enjoyed your posts and all the great paintings, thank you! Previous Message Hi, my first post here. My name is Davo, from Melbourne, Australia. Have lurked for about a month. Loving reading all your posts. Lately I’ve been doing some research on the beautiful bejewelled royal family orders – both UK and similar counterparts elsewhere. I wanted to share some results and seek your thoughts or advice. I’ll start with the family order of George IV, but will get to others in future posts. I’ve been looking at different publications and the online collection holdings of the National Portrait Gallery (NPG), and the Royal Collection Trust (RCT). Most sources list three badges in the RCT. These belongs to the King’s Sister, The Princess Royal (later the Queen of Württemberg), his sister-in-law, the Duchess of Cambridge, and his niece Princess Augusta of Cambridge (later the Grand Duchess of Mecklenburg-Strelitz). There is no list of recipients included in Risk et al’s Royal Service Volume II , which has an opening chapter, “The Royal Family Orders and the Royal Order of Victoria and Albert”, which lists those awarded the orders from the VA onwards. So to ascertain who else may have been given the order by George IV I’ve looked for evidence of recipients the three groups of female relatives where badges exist. In Royal Insignia , Stephen Patterson reproduces the three different sized badges in the royal collection (pg133): one each belonging to a sister, sister-n-law and niece of George VI. Patterson’s notes record that in 1821 Rundell, Bridge and Rundell provided him with 11 jewelled badges/medallion. They were billed to the King in RA26021-22, “for four medallion at £234 each, one at £195, a smaller piece for £66 an yet another for £135. In July 1821 (RA 26026-27) Rundell supplied another medallion in ‘form of laurel round His Majesty’s Picture’ for £390, another in same design for £398, and two more on 28 July for £234 each.”(pg203) So we know that in 1821 there were 2 x type at £390/398 6 x type at £234 1 x type at £195 1 x type at £135 1 x type at £60 Patterson suggests, “All can be presumed to be gifts to be given around the time of the King’s Coronation in July that year.”(pg.203) (He also notes that in 1815 a large similar badge for £1243. He says notes annotated later on the 1815 bill suggest that piece was given to the Duchess of Cumberland as a wedding present.) We can assume that Queen Victoria’s badge, given in 1828, Princess Augusta of Cambridge’s were probably made around that time. So, let’s examine the evidence for each group of relatives in the following posts...

Re: Family order of George IV Posted by mauriz on May 2, 2020, 5:08 am, in reply to "Family order of George IV" Welcome! And thank you for a most impressive and enjoyable first series of posts!

Re: Family order of George IV Posted by Dave on May 2, 2020, 1:02 pm, in reply to "Family order of George IV" Welcome Davo, and thanks for the very clear and credible pictures. The clarity is like never before, you can actually see the head pieces clearly. I hope someone can identify the head piece on the I think Duchess of Gloucester and others who are depicted. I got the familiar one being worn by the Duchess of Teck/ Cambridge, but they are others I'm completely lost on. It is said that HM George iv was the biggest contributor to the present day Royal Collection in terms of paintings, antiques and objects d art yet their are stories of him also buying jewels and he is only associated with the State Diadem. Regards, Dave. Previous Message Hi, my first post here. My name is Davo, from Melbourne, Australia. Have lurked for about a month. Loving reading all your posts. Lately I’ve been doing some research on the beautiful bejewelled royal family orders – both UK and similar counterparts elsewhere. I wanted to share some results and seek your thoughts or advice. I’ll start with the family order of George IV, but will get to others in future posts. I’ve been looking at different publications and the online collection holdings of the National Portrait Gallery (NPG), and the Royal Collection Trust (RCT). Most sources list three badges in the RCT. These belongs to the King’s Sister, The Princess Royal (later the Queen of Württemberg), his sister-in-law, the Duchess of Cambridge, and his niece Princess Augusta of Cambridge (later the Grand Duchess of Mecklenburg-Strelitz). There is no list of recipients included in Risk et al’s Royal Service Volume II , which has an opening chapter, “The Royal Family Orders and the Royal Order of Victoria and Albert”, which lists those awarded the orders from the VA onwards. So to ascertain who else may have been given the order by George IV I’ve looked for evidence of recipients the three groups of female relatives where badges exist. In Royal Insignia , Stephen Patterson reproduces the three different sized badges in the royal collection (pg133): one each belonging to a sister, sister-n-law and niece of George VI. Patterson’s notes record that in 1821 Rundell, Bridge and Rundell provided him with 11 jewelled badges/medallion. They were billed to the King in RA26021-22, “for four medallion at £234 each, one at £195, a smaller piece for £66 an yet another for £135. In July 1821 (RA 26026-27) Rundell supplied another medallion in ‘form of laurel round His Majesty’s Picture’ for £390, another in same design for £398, and two more on 28 July for £234 each.”(pg203) So we know that in 1821 there were 2 x type at £390/398 6 x type at £234 1 x type at £195 1 x type at £135 1 x type at £60 Patterson suggests, “All can be presumed to be gifts to be given around the time of the King’s Coronation in July that year.”(pg.203) (He also notes that in 1815 a large similar badge for £1243. He says notes annotated later on the 1815 bill suggest that piece was given to the Duchess of Cumberland as a wedding present.) We can assume that Queen Victoria’s badge, given in 1828, Princess Augusta of Cambridge’s were probably made around that time. So, let’s examine the evidence for each group of relatives in the following posts...

Warm welcome to DavoSt!! Posted by Beth on May 2, 2020, 4:13 pm, in reply to "Re: Family order of George IV" What a great post Davo! I was glued to my computer screen! Not only have you looked at an interesting topic not dealt with previously, you have given us a little mystery to solve: how did Princess Mary Adelaide, Duchess of Teck come to have the order. Again a very warm welcome.

Re: Warm welcome to DavoSt!! Posted by OmerH on May 2, 2020, 8:01 pm, in reply to "Warm welcome to DavoSt!!" Welcome DavoST. What a great first post!!!

How interesting... Posted by Janet on May 2, 2020, 10:43 pm, in reply to "Family order of George IV" thank you for sharing. I was quite interested in what the modern day cost of these items would be to purchase. I am not sure if this is the correct way of calculating but based on an inflation calculator from the bank of England, it seems £398 in 1821 would be around £43,000 now. So buying quite a few of these, albeit sum were cheaper, was still quite an expensive purchase and therefore to receive one must have been quite prestigious. https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator

Thank you Posted by DavoST on May 3, 2020, 1:45 pm, in reply to "Family order of George IV" Thanks everyone for the warm welcome. It was very much appreciated. I'd hoped it would be of interest, you never can tell. Back to the research! Cheers DavoST

« Back to index