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Queen Augusta Victoria's of Portugal's ruby parure Posted by Janet on May 23, 2020, 12:53 am This is displayed in the above portrait but does anyone know of a picture of the Queen wearing it? Sometimes portraits can be misleading...

Post at the Court jeweller Posted by Janet on May 23, 2020, 1:04 am, in reply to "Queen Augusta Victoria's of Portugal's ruby parure" suggests the tiara is still in existence and is belonging to Queen Augusta Victoria's family, the princely house of Hohenzollern. http://www.thecourtjeweller.com/2017/04/the-daily-diadem-order-of-christ-tiara.html

Re: Queen Augusta Victoria's of Portugal's ruby parure Posted by Mike on May 23, 2020, 2:17 pm, in reply to "Queen Augusta Victoria's of Portugal's ruby parure" Manythanks...my knowledge i this space isvery lacking so keen to learn more, Mike Previous Message This is displayed in the above portrait but does anyone know of a picture of the Queen wearing it? Sometimes portraits can be misleading...

Re: Queen Augusta Victoria's of Portugal's ruby parure Posted by Ursula on May 23, 2020, 11:44 pm, in reply to "Queen Augusta Victoria's of Portugal's ruby parure" Some details of the Ruby tiara and ruby diamond chocker which is made by Cartier, follow the link below. Queen Augusta Victoria's of Portugal's ruby parure No, it's not in the family anymore, as well as her wonderful lily of the valley tiara. She sold it in exil, life in England in exil is very expensiv. She bought the castle Umkirch next to her favorite brother. This was left to the family. lily of the valley diamond tiara | from Auguste Victoria of Portugal

Re: Queen Augusta Victoria's of Portugal's ruby parure Posted by Janet on May 24, 2020, 4:27 am, in reply to "Re: Queen Augusta Victoria's of Portugal's ruby parure" Thank you - do you happen to know what happened to the tiara and choker? Previous Message Some details of the Ruby tiara and ruby diamond chocker which is made by Cartier, follow the link below. Queen Augusta Victoria's of Portugal's ruby parure No, it's not in the family anymore, as well as her wonderful lily of the valley tiara. She sold it in exil, life in England in exil is very expensiv. She bought the castle Umkirch next to her favorite brother. This was left to the family. lily of the valley diamond tiara | from Auguste Victoria of Portugal

Re: Queen Augusta Victoria's of Portugal's ruby parure Posted by Ursula on May 25, 2020, 12:01 am, in reply to "Re: Queen Augusta Victoria's of Portugal's ruby parure" No sorry, I ask about it, before 15 years a member of the family and he told me, she sold all her jewels. But left the Castle to her brother, they are very closed. Previous Message Thank you - do you happen to know what happened to the tiara and choker? Previous Message Some details of the Ruby tiara and ruby diamond chocker which is made by Cartier, follow the link below. Queen Augusta Victoria's of Portugal's ruby parure No, it's not in the family anymore, as well as her wonderful lily of the valley tiara. She sold it in exil, life in England in exil is very expensiv. She bought the castle Umkirch next to her favorite brother. This was left to the family. lily of the valley diamond tiara | from Auguste Victoria of Portugal

Re: Queen Augusta Victoria's of Portugal's ruby parure Posted by Beth on May 25, 2020, 7:22 am, in reply to "Re: Queen Augusta Victoria's of Portugal's ruby parure" That is interesting Ursula. The question for me would be when did the Queen sell her jewels. I very much doubt if King Manoel was in dire need of money during his period of exile which would have forced his wife to sell her jewels. He had a house full of valuable works of art, which could have been sold quietly if needed. Both the King and Queen actively took part in British social life attending Court functions, the opera and other public events, as well as travelling to the Riviera each summer, so the Queen had the opportunity as well as a need for suitable jewellery. The King was a bibliophile, and continued his collecting in exile. These books were, I understand, left to form part of a museum in Portugal. From what I can gleam through the UK press and general reading the King was not in dire need of money. After King Manoel's death Fulwell Park was sold for re-development, which would have provided some funds for the Queen. This link provides a brief overview of Fulwell Park https://houseandheritage.org/2019/01/24/fulwell-park/ For the purposes of taxation the King's estate was valued 26,447/11/6 pounds sterling. Probate was granted on 3 January 1933, when the UK was still in the depths of the Depression, significantly lowering the value of property. An important aspect of the value of the estate for probate is that it does not take into account funds, property and assets which the King held outside England; nor any money and assets held separately by his wife, his mother or trustees of funds etc which provided him with income. What Queen Augusta Victoria built in Germany was a smallish house, which was then called Fulwell Park in recognition of where she had lived in England. The land for the house was given to her by her brother, it being part of the Umkirch Castle/palace estate which had been owned by the Hohenzollern Sigmaringen family since the middle of the ninteenth century. Whether Queen Victoria willed the house to her brother, or whether it reverted to him as the owner of the land after her death is something I don't know. Today, Fulwell Park has been sold to another, private individual and is known as Queen Auguste Victoria Park. (For the interesting history see https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schloss_Umkirch&prev=search ) Once Queen Augusta Victoria married Count Robert Douglas in 1939 money would not have been issue at least until WWII and after. Perhaps that was when she sold her jewels. I very much doubt if the tiara with the crosses will surface. The symbolism would preclude it being worn by most. The Cartier ruby and diamond choker is much more likely to surface, as would the ruby and diamond earrings. No doubt additional information can be found in biographies of King Manoel and Queen Augusta Victoria. Has anyone read any?

A thead from the Franco-Iberian board from 2019 Posted by Janet on May 25, 2020, 7:35 am, in reply to "Re: Queen Augusta Victoria's of Portugal's ruby parure" Back in 2019 I initiated a thread at the Franco-Iberian board about the current residence of the Duke of Braganza and what followed was some very interesting posts about what happened to King Manuel's wealth after his death, which may also give some context to why Queen Augusta Victoria had to sell jewels. https://members3.boardhost.com/Francoiberian/msg/1546742837.html

Will of King Manoel Posted by Beth on May 25, 2020, 9:08 am, in reply to "A thead from the Franco-Iberian board from 2019" Very interesting! Thank you Janet. I realise that my earlier post is not as clear as it should be. I should have made it clearer that I doubt if Queen Augusta Victoria sold her jewels while in exile in England, either before the King's death or immediately after. Why I suspect she did not need to sell her jewels immediately after the King's death is that it is most likely that she had access to income (and perhaps assets) through her marriage settlement. I very much doubt if she married without one -- of some description. If, by some means, she was without funds following the King's death, her family and her mother-in-law, Queen Amelia, were in a position to help -- at least on a temporary basis. I also doubt if King Manoel held all his private assets in the UK. I haven't seen the will of King Manoel, but below is a sample of what the UK press revealed. The estates of the "former Royal House" undoubtedly refer to assets utilised by the monarchy and considered by the Republican government as State property. In many respects King Manoel's will is an ambit claim. The report below was published well before probate was granted. It gives additional details about the property left to be used in a museum. According to the press, the will was signed in 1915, a time when it would not necessarily have been clear that there wouldn't be any children of the marriage. Because of that, I strongly suspect that a marriage settlement was made for Queen Augusta Victoria to ensure that she and any children of the marriage would be provided for, especially if the monarchy was not restored in Portugal. As the first item about King Manoel's will indicates, the items left to King George V had been stolen. The robbery took place at Fulwell Park in May 1932, just prior to King Manoel's sudden death. I haven't seen a full list of the art works stolen.

Re: Will of King Manoel Posted by RDavid on May 25, 2020, 10:31 pm, in reply to "Will of King Manoel" I’ve only seen it in Portuguese, in case you are interested https://digitarq.arquivos.pt/ViewerForm.aspx?id=388848 Previous Message Very interesting! Thank you Janet. I realise that my earlier post is not as clear as it should be. I should have made it clearer that I doubt if Queen Augusta Victoria sold her jewels while in exile in England, either before the King's death or immediately after. Why I suspect she did not need to sell her jewels immediately after the King's death is that it is most likely that she had access to income (and perhaps assets) through her marriage settlement. I very much doubt if she married without one -- of some description. If, by some means, she was without funds following the King's death, her family and her mother-in-law, Queen Amelia, were in a position to help -- at least on a temporary basis. I also doubt if King Manoel held all his private assets in the UK. I haven't seen the will of King Manoel, but below is a sample of what the UK press revealed. The estates of the "former Royal House" undoubtedly refer to assets utilised by the monarchy and considered by the Republican government as State property. In many respects King Manoel's will is an ambit claim. The report below was published well before probate was granted. It gives additional details about the property left to be used in a museum. According to the press, the will was signed in 1915, a time when it would not necessarily have been clear that there wouldn't be any children of the marriage. Because of that, I strongly suspect that a marriage settlement was made for Queen Augusta Victoria to ensure that she and any children of the marriage would be provided for, especially if the monarchy was not restored in Portugal. As the first item about King Manoel's will indicates, the items left to King George V had been stolen. The robbery took place at Fulwell Park in May 1932, just prior to King Manoel's sudden death. I haven't seen a full list of the art works stolen.

Re: Will of King Manoel Posted by RDavid on May 26, 2020, 6:37 am, in reply to "Will of King Manoel" He knew what was property of the family and what was property of the State, It was clear! Before the end of the Monarchy that division was already known. Some properties were even passed by the last King to the State. Previous Message Very interesting! Thank you Janet. I realise that my earlier post is not as clear as it should be. I should have made it clearer that I doubt if Queen Augusta Victoria sold her jewels while in exile in England, either before the King's death or immediately after. Why I suspect she did not need to sell her jewels immediately after the King's death is that it is most likely that she had access to income (and perhaps assets) through her marriage settlement. I very much doubt if she married without one -- of some description. If, by some means, she was without funds following the King's death, her family and her mother-in-law, Queen Amelia, were in a position to help -- at least on a temporary basis. I also doubt if King Manoel held all his private assets in the UK. I haven't seen the will of King Manoel, but below is a sample of what the UK press revealed. The estates of the "former Royal House" undoubtedly refer to assets utilised by the monarchy and considered by the Republican government as State property. In many respects King Manoel's will is an ambit claim. The report below was published well before probate was granted. It gives additional details about the property left to be used in a museum. According to the press, the will was signed in 1915, a time when it would not necessarily have been clear that there wouldn't be any children of the marriage. Because of that, I strongly suspect that a marriage settlement was made for Queen Augusta Victoria to ensure that she and any children of the marriage would be provided for, especially if the monarchy was not restored in Portugal. As the first item about King Manoel's will indicates, the items left to King George V had been stolen. The robbery took place at Fulwell Park in May 1932, just prior to King Manoel's sudden death. I haven't seen a full list of the art works stolen.

Re: Will of King Manoel Posted by Beth on May 26, 2020, 7:53 am, in reply to "Re: Will of King Manoel" Thanks for the link RDavid. Unfortunately I cannot get access to read the document, as an error message keeps coming up saying the site might have too many using it etc. I wonder if the archives are geo-blocked? I have been trying for nearly 2 hours. Do I understand correctly that you are saying that the estates in Portugal, which the King left to his wife and mother, were strictly private property? If so, does any one know if either of the Queens was able to access them? Is there any indication of property the King held outside Portugal and England?

Re: Queen Augusta Victoria's of Portugal's ruby parure Posted by Dave on May 26, 2020, 4:44 am, in reply to "Re: Queen Augusta Victoria's of Portugal's ruby parure" Thanks Beth, very good research here, the thread is an interesting one. The value of property left by King Manoel in today's value is over 12 million pounds. I wonder if the king was given some kind of settlement for being made to go into exile from the Portuguese government or indeed if the British government via QV made any contributions to his living arrangements. I mean if one looks at it clearly, most royal families claim to be financially modest or asset rich and cash poor. But if one looks at the way the Sussex's whom I am not attacking are living i.e. in very high end expensive living conditions, then one can deduce that the royals are in fact more flush with hard cash then they are letting on. Regards, Dave. Previous Message That is interesting Ursula. The question for me would be when did the Queen sell her jewels. I very much doubt if King Manoel was in dire need of money during his period of exile which would have forced his wife to sell her jewels. He had a house full of valuable works of art, which could have been sold quietly if needed. Both the King and Queen actively took part in British social life attending Court functions, the opera and other public events, as well as travelling to the Riviera each summer, so the Queen had the opportunity as well as a need for suitable jewellery. The King was a bibliophile, and continued his collecting in exile. These books were, I understand, left to form part of a museum in Portugal. From what I can gleam through the UK press and general reading the King was not in dire need of money. After King Manoel's death Fulwell Park was sold for re-development, which would have provided some funds for the Queen. This link provides a brief overview of Fulwell Park https://houseandheritage.org/2019/01/24/fulwell-park/ For the purposes of taxation the King's estate was valued 26,447/11/6 pounds sterling. Probate was granted on 3 January 1933, when the UK was still in the depths of the Depression, significantly lowering the value of property. An important aspect of the value of the estate for probate is that it does not take into account funds, property and assets which the King held outside England; nor any money and assets held separately by his wife, his mother or trustees of funds etc which provided him with income. What Queen Augusta Victoria built in Germany was a smallish house, which was then called Fulwell Park in recognition of where she had lived in England. The land for the house was given to her by her brother, it being part of the Umkirch Castle/palace estate which had been owned by the Hohenzollern Sigmaringen family since the middle of the ninteenth century. Whether Queen Victoria willed the house to her brother, or whether it reverted to him as the owner of the land after her death is something I don't know. Today, Fulwell Park has been sold to another, private individual and is known as Queen Auguste Victoria Park. (For the interesting history see https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schloss_Umkirch&prev=search ) Once Queen Augusta Victoria married Count Robert Douglas in 1939 money would not have been issue at least until WWII and after. Perhaps that was when she sold her jewels. I very much doubt if the tiara with the crosses will surface. The symbolism would preclude it being worn by most. The Cartier ruby and diamond choker is much more likely to surface, as would the ruby and diamond earrings. No doubt additional information can be found in biographies of King Manoel and Queen Augusta Victoria. Has anyone read any?

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