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How Chaumet's archivists track down long-lost jewels
Posted by Janet on September 6, 2020, 7:42 am Edited by board administrator September 6, 2020, 9:53 am
The Daily Telegraph has removed its paywall this weekend to protest against attempts to stymie the free press by left wing climate protesters preventing newspapers being able to leave printing factories.
There was an article about Chaumet published a few months ago which I read in print but can now share.
The most fascinating things about it:
i) Chaumet's archive has 350,000 photos of finished jewels!!!!! They are in the "process of digitising every document, a task that's expected to go on for a decade." Let us all pray these are released!!!!!;
ii) As evidence of what Chaumet's archivists do, the staggeringly beautiful (in my view at least) tiara of Countess Mountbatten worn at two Coronations was for decades thought to be by Cartier but Chaumet were able to cross reference their archive and identify that it actually was one of theirs! For reasons unknown the owner prior to Lady Mountbatten took it to Cartier who sold it to Lady Mountbatten with a Cartier box...resulting in the assumption it was a Cartier creation!
I believe - it's the same with the Khedive Tiara, which is not in the archive of Cartier.
But in the archive of Kreuter &Co Hanau/Koch, exactly with all details of the stones, sizes and weight and details of the work masters.
Cartier take it over....but there are no sketches and invoice or plasters in Paris.
Previous Message
The Daily Telegraph has removed its paywall this weekend to protest against attempts to stymie the free press by left wing climate protesters preventing newspapers being able to leave printing factories.
There was an article about Chaumet published a few months ago which I read in print but can now share.
The most fascinating things about it:
i) Chaumet's archive has 350,000 photos of finished jewels!!!!! They are in the "process of digitising every document, a task that's expected to go on for a decade." Let us all pray these are released!!!!!;
ii) As evidence of what Chaumet's archivists do, the staggeringly beautiful (in my view at least) tiara of Countess Mountbatten worn at two Coronations was for decades thought to be by Cartier but Chaumet were able to cross reference their archive and identify that it actually was one of theirs! For reasons unknown the owner prior to Lady Mountbatten took it to Cartier who sold it to Lady Mountbatten with a Cartier box...resulting in the assumption it was a Cartier creation!
Thank you for the detail regarding the Khedive tiara, one of my absolute favourites. Although I am less fond of the way Queen Anne Marie has adapted it into a higher placed coronet style.
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Thank you Janet for this link,
I believe - it's the same with the Khedive Tiara, which is not in the archive of Cartier.
But in the archive of Kreuter &Co Hanau/Koch, exactly with all details of the stones, sizes and weight and details of the work masters.
Cartier take it over....but there are no sketches and invoice or plasters in Paris.
Previous Message
The Daily Telegraph has removed its paywall this weekend to protest against attempts to stymie the free press by left wing climate protesters preventing newspapers being able to leave printing factories.
There was an article about Chaumet published a few months ago which I read in print but can now share.
The most fascinating things about it:
i) Chaumet's archive has 350,000 photos of finished jewels!!!!! They are in the "process of digitising every document, a task that's expected to go on for a decade." Let us all pray these are released!!!!!;
ii) As evidence of what Chaumet's archivists do, the staggeringly beautiful (in my view at least) tiara of Countess Mountbatten worn at two Coronations was for decades thought to be by Cartier but Chaumet were able to cross reference their archive and identify that it actually was one of theirs! For reasons unknown the owner prior to Lady Mountbatten took it to Cartier who sold it to Lady Mountbatten with a Cartier box...resulting in the assumption it was a Cartier creation!
How lucky you are to have been privileged to research so extensively in Cartier's archive!
But can you tell us where Cartier has claimed to have been the creator/maker of the Khedive tiara?
I cannot find any information about that, despite checking in several books today. Of course, I don't have all books on Cartier, so I am hoping to expand my knowledge.
Unfortunately, I could not find where you have a web page on the Khedive tiara. Could you give us the link, please?
What I have found, for the most part, are modern blogs attributing the tiara to Cartier, although I haven't found a source cited. The proof most give is circular -- one blog cites the other as a reference; yet none has any specific evidence.
There is one contemporary source from 1905 which states that the tiara was made by Cartier, but I am sure that, as you do such detailed research, you will have found that and will have valid reasons for rejecting it.
1905 newspaper
As I have never applied to Cartier about this tiara, I am not in a position to say if the report is accurate.
I would value your being able to give us more accurate information, including evidence about the Koch archives and proof that the tiara made by that firm is the one now owned by Queen Anne Marie.
Have the Danish Royal officials or those of the Greek Royal family ever released information about the number and carat weight of the stones? The quality of the stones etc, which would enable scholars to identify if the tiara was made by Koch?
Are the archival records from Koch available to others? If so, where?
Previous Message
Thank you Janet for this link,
I believe - it's the same with the Khedive Tiara, which is not in the archive of Cartier.
But in the archive of Kreuter &Co Hanau/Koch, exactly with all details of the stones, sizes and weight and details of the work masters.
Cartier take it over....but there are no sketches and invoice or plasters in Paris.
Previous Message
The Daily Telegraph has removed its paywall this weekend to protest against attempts to stymie the free press by left wing climate protesters preventing newspapers being able to leave printing factories.
There was an article about Chaumet published a few months ago which I read in print but can now share.
The most fascinating things about it:
i) Chaumet's archive has 350,000 photos of finished jewels!!!!! They are in the "process of digitising every document, a task that's expected to go on for a decade." Let us all pray these are released!!!!!;
ii) As evidence of what Chaumet's archivists do, the staggeringly beautiful (in my view at least) tiara of Countess Mountbatten worn at two Coronations was for decades thought to be by Cartier but Chaumet were able to cross reference their archive and identify that it actually was one of theirs! For reasons unknown the owner prior to Lady Mountbatten took it to Cartier who sold it to Lady Mountbatten with a Cartier box...resulting in the assumption it was a Cartier creation!
You are the big expert, so you will know, Cartier does make research of every item, they had done, but it will cost probably 4000,-- /6000,-- Euro minimum and up.
So probably it's a similar story as Prince Dimitri had now, bring up to the light, in his book, about the Chaumet tiara.
Not all in jewel history is solved... we could delete the notes from books of Nadelhoffer/ Nussbaumer/G.Munn and all other profs, they had also thought its Cartier.
And yes, I will send a link when it's ready from the sketch of Kreuter & Co, Archive Hanau.
Previous Message
I am intrigued Ursula!
How lucky you are to have been privileged to research so extensively in Cartier's archive!
But can you tell us where Cartier has claimed to have been the creator/maker of the Khedive tiara?
I cannot find any information about that, despite checking in several books today. Of course, I don't have all books on Cartier, so I am hoping to expand my knowledge.
Unfortunately, I could not find where you have a web page on the Khedive tiara. Could you give us the link, please?
What I have found, for the most part, are modern blogs attributing the tiara to Cartier, although I haven't found a source cited. The proof most give is circular -- one blog cites the other as a reference; yet none has any specific evidence.
There is one contemporary source from 1905 which states that the tiara was made by Cartier, but I am sure that, as you do such detailed research, you will have found that and will have valid reasons for rejecting it.
1905 newspaper
As I have never applied to Cartier about this tiara, I am not in a position to say if the report is accurate.
I would value your being able to give us more accurate information, including evidence about the Koch archives and proof that the tiara made by that firm is the one now owned by Queen Anne Marie.
Have the Danish Royal officials or those of the Greek Royal family ever released information about the number and carat weight of the stones? The quality of the stones etc, which would enable scholars to identify if the tiara was made by Koch?
Are the archival records from Koch available to others? If so, where?
Previous Message
Thank you Janet for this link,
I believe - it's the same with the Khedive Tiara, which is not in the archive of Cartier.
But in the archive of Kreuter &Co Hanau/Koch, exactly with all details of the stones, sizes and weight and details of the work masters.
Cartier take it over....but there are no sketches and invoice or plasters in Paris.
Previous Message
The Daily Telegraph has removed its paywall this weekend to protest against attempts to stymie the free press by left wing climate protesters preventing newspapers being able to leave printing factories.
There was an article about Chaumet published a few months ago which I read in print but can now share.
The most fascinating things about it:
i) Chaumet's archive has 350,000 photos of finished jewels!!!!! They are in the "process of digitising every document, a task that's expected to go on for a decade." Let us all pray these are released!!!!!;
ii) As evidence of what Chaumet's archivists do, the staggeringly beautiful (in my view at least) tiara of Countess Mountbatten worn at two Coronations was for decades thought to be by Cartier but Chaumet were able to cross reference their archive and identify that it actually was one of theirs! For reasons unknown the owner prior to Lady Mountbatten took it to Cartier who sold it to Lady Mountbatten with a Cartier box...resulting in the assumption it was a Cartier creation!
Oh, heavens! I don't claim to be an expert by any means.
What I was seeking was clarification of Ursula's claim in relation to the Khedive tiara that, "Cartier take it over....but there are no sketches and invoice or plasters in Paris." https://mb.boardhost.com/historyroyaljewels/msg/1599396614.html Ursula's phraseology suggests that she has done extensive, exhaustive research in the Cartier archives.
I have never seen any claim by Cartier that it made and sold the Khedive tiara. Others have made that claim. I may be mistaken, but I cannot see where Hans Nadelhoffer or Geoffrey Munn have written about this particular tiara (the Khedive tiara). Perhaps I have missed something. If so, I would be grateful if someone could give me the details.
Cartier may have made the tiara.
Equally, another firm may have created the jewel.
I think it is reasonable for the person making such a claim to provide some level of proof, not just an assertion.
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Hi Beth, extensively, ähhm ??
You are the big expert, so you will know, Cartier does make research of every item, they had done, but it will cost probably 4000,-- /6000,-- Euro minimum and up.
So probably it's a similar story as Prince Dimitri had now, bring up to the light, in his book, about the Chaumet tiara.
Not all in jewel history is solved... we could delete the notes from books of Nadelhoffer/ Nussbaumer/G.Munn and all other profs, they had also thought its Cartier.
And yes, I will send a link when it's ready from the sketch of Kreuter & Co, Archive Hanau.
Previous Message
I am intrigued Ursula!
How lucky you are to have been privileged to research so extensively in Cartier's archive!
But can you tell us where Cartier has claimed to have been the creator/maker of the Khedive tiara?
I cannot find any information about that, despite checking in several books today. Of course, I don't have all books on Cartier, so I am hoping to expand my knowledge.
Unfortunately, I could not find where you have a web page on the Khedive tiara. Could you give us the link, please?
What I have found, for the most part, are modern blogs attributing the tiara to Cartier, although I haven't found a source cited. The proof most give is circular -- one blog cites the other as a reference; yet none has any specific evidence.
There is one contemporary source from 1905 which states that the tiara was made by Cartier, but I am sure that, as you do such detailed research, you will have found that and will have valid reasons for rejecting it.
1905 newspaper
As I have never applied to Cartier about this tiara, I am not in a position to say if the report is accurate.
I would value your being able to give us more accurate information, including evidence about the Koch archives and proof that the tiara made by that firm is the one now owned by Queen Anne Marie.
Have the Danish Royal officials or those of the Greek Royal family ever released information about the number and carat weight of the stones? The quality of the stones etc, which would enable scholars to identify if the tiara was made by Koch?
Are the archival records from Koch available to others? If so, where?
Previous Message
Thank you Janet for this link,
I believe - it's the same with the Khedive Tiara, which is not in the archive of Cartier.
But in the archive of Kreuter &Co Hanau/Koch, exactly with all details of the stones, sizes and weight and details of the work masters.
Cartier take it over....but there are no sketches and invoice or plasters in Paris.
Previous Message
The Daily Telegraph has removed its paywall this weekend to protest against attempts to stymie the free press by left wing climate protesters preventing newspapers being able to leave printing factories.
There was an article about Chaumet published a few months ago which I read in print but can now share.
The most fascinating things about it:
i) Chaumet's archive has 350,000 photos of finished jewels!!!!! They are in the "process of digitising every document, a task that's expected to go on for a decade." Let us all pray these are released!!!!!;
ii) As evidence of what Chaumet's archivists do, the staggeringly beautiful (in my view at least) tiara of Countess Mountbatten worn at two Coronations was for decades thought to be by Cartier but Chaumet were able to cross reference their archive and identify that it actually was one of theirs! For reasons unknown the owner prior to Lady Mountbatten took it to Cartier who sold it to Lady Mountbatten with a Cartier box...resulting in the assumption it was a Cartier creation!
So the questions begs, why does Chaumet not say something then to disprove what has been put into public knowledge, and why does Cartier also not say something to not have benefit of work which is not theirs. Why is it falling to jewel enthusiast who may have no credibility in the eyes of the public to come out with these things. Could it be that the same craftsmen who worked at Cartier also worked at Chaumet?
Regards,
Dave.
Previous Message
The Daily Telegraph has removed its paywall this weekend to protest against attempts to stymie the free press by left wing climate protesters preventing newspapers being able to leave printing factories.
There was an article about Chaumet published a few months ago which I read in print but can now share.
The most fascinating things about it:
i) Chaumet's archive has 350,000 photos of finished jewels!!!!! They are in the "process of digitising every document, a task that's expected to go on for a decade." Let us all pray these are released!!!!!;
ii) As evidence of what Chaumet's archivists do, the staggeringly beautiful (in my view at least) tiara of Countess Mountbatten worn at two Coronations was for decades thought to be by Cartier but Chaumet were able to cross reference their archive and identify that it actually was one of theirs! For reasons unknown the owner prior to Lady Mountbatten took it to Cartier who sold it to Lady Mountbatten with a Cartier box...resulting in the assumption it was a Cartier creation!
What they shall say? The nasty Cartier guys had stolen our tiara, perhaps in an offical announcement? I guess to throw with mud is not the usual way of Chaumet to communicate. Nor of Cartier, to tell the world 'Oh, since a hundred years a tiara worn by her and her is not made by us but by Chaumet!' Perhaps one day Monsieur X of Chaumet and Monsieur Y of Cartier will meet, accidential, at a reception or an opening. And after the little small talk Monsieur X will tell to Monsieur Y 'What do you think about ...' . 'Oh, indeed. We are so sorry. When a rumour like this is in the world...you know?!' 'Oh, that is true!' And that's it. None of them would have an advantage by creating such kind od publicity.
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So the questions begs, why does Chaumet not say something then to disprove what has been put into public knowledge, and why does Cartier also not say something to not have benefit of work wh.ich is not theirs. Why is it falling to jewel enthusiast who may have no credibility in the eyes of the public to come out with these things. Could it be that the same craftsmen who worked at Cartier also worked at Chaumet?
Regards,
Dave.
Previous Message
The Daily Telegraph has removed its paywall this weekend to protest against attempts to stymie the free press by left wing climate protesters preventing newspapers being able to leave printing factories.
There was an article about Chaumet published a few months ago which I read in print but can now share.
The most fascinating things about it:
i) Chaumet's archive has 350,000 photos of finished jewels!!!!! They are in the "process of digitising every document, a task that's expected to go on for a decade." Let us all pray these are released!!!!!;
ii) As evidence of what Chaumet's archivists do, the staggeringly beautiful (in my view at least) tiara of Countess Mountbatten worn at two Coronations was for decades thought to be by Cartier but Chaumet were able to cross reference their archive and identify that it actually was one of theirs! For reasons unknown the owner prior to Lady Mountbatten took it to Cartier who sold it to Lady Mountbatten with a Cartier box...resulting in the assumption it was a Cartier creation!
Hi Janet. Belated thanks for posting a most interesting link and generating such an interesting thread.
Mike
Previous Message
The Daily Telegraph has removed its paywall this weekend to protest against attempts to stymie the free press by left wing climate protesters preventing newspapers being able to leave printing factories.
There was an article about Chaumet published a few months ago which I read in print but can now share.
The most fascinating things about it:
i) Chaumet's archive has 350,000 photos of finished jewels!!!!! They are in the "process of digitising every document, a task that's expected to go on for a decade." Let us all pray these are released!!!!!;
ii) As evidence of what Chaumet's archivists do, the staggeringly beautiful (in my view at least) tiara of Countess Mountbatten worn at two Coronations was for decades thought to be by Cartier but Chaumet were able to cross reference their archive and identify that it actually was one of theirs! For reasons unknown the owner prior to Lady Mountbatten took it to Cartier who sold it to Lady Mountbatten with a Cartier box...resulting in the assumption it was a Cartier creation!
on September 6, 2020, 10:50 pm, in reply to "
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