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Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch Posted by Dave on September 11, 2020, 6:41 pm Hi all, I was viewing a you tube documentary narrated by the Queen's youngest son the Earl of Wessex named Crown and Country and at (21:12) minutes into the program there is a black and white photo of the then royal family with Queen Mary wearing a very large colored brooch at her neck. My first impression was that maybe it was the famous sapphire brooch associated with the late PDPoW, but then on a closer look it did not have the oval look of which that sapphire brooch has but then again that is only my opinion. Please take a look below. ?t=1272 Regards, Dave.

Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch Posted by Mike on September 12, 2020, 11:24 am, in reply to "Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch " Hi Dave...great post. I could not get a large image on my mobile. My instinct is that it looks like the brooch given to Diana POW by QEQM. Darkness of image seems to me to be sapphire more so than ruby or emerald. Previous Message Hi all, I was viewing a you tube documentary narrated by the Queen's youngest son the Earl of Wessex named Crown and Country and at (21:12) minutes into the program thee is a black and white photo of the then royal family with Queen Mary wearing a very large colored brooch at her neck. My first impression was that maybe it was the famous sapphire brooch associated with the late PDPoW, but then on a closer look it did not have the oval look of which that sapphire brooch has but then again that is only my opinion. Please take a look below. ?t=1272 Regards, Dave.

Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch & Ring Posted by Dave on September 12, 2020, 11:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch " Thanks Mike, also on closer inspection one can also notice a colored ring on the right hand of the late QM. Could it be the sapphire one worn by HM? Please see below. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbr.pinterest.com%2Fpin%2F374291419032215513%2F%3Famp_client_id%3DCLIENT_ID(_)%26mweb_unauth_id%3D%7B%7Bdefault.session%7D%7D%26amp_url%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fbr.pinterest.com%252Famp%252Fpin%252F637611259737070131%252F&psig=AOvVaw3FD38n6f022k9xefSsz8g3&ust=1600003465852000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCPCfmcbb4-sCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD Regards, Dave. Previous Message Hi Dave...great post. I could not get a large image on my mobile. My instinct is that it looks like the brooch given to Diana POW by QEQM. Darkness of image seems to me to be sapphire more so than ruby or emerald. Previous Message Hi all, I was viewing a you tube documentary narrated by the Queen's youngest son the Earl of Wessex named Crown and Country and at (21:12) minutes into the program thee is a black and white photo of the then royal family with Queen Mary wearing a very large colored brooch at her neck. My first impression was that maybe it was the famous sapphire brooch associated with the late PDPoW, but then on a closer look it did not have the oval look of which that sapphire brooch has but then again that is only my opinion. Please take a look below. ?t=1272 Regards, Dave.

Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch & Ring Posted by fireweaver on September 13, 2020, 5:04 pm, in reply to "Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch & Ring" It reminds me of the Marie Feodoronva sapphire brooch without the pearl pendant. Previous Message Thanks Mike, also on closer inspection one can also notice a colored ring on the right hand of the late QM. Could it be the sapphire one worn by HM? Please see below. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbr.pinterest.com%2Fpin%2F374291419032215513%2F%3Famp_client_id%3DCLIENT_ID (_)%26mweb_unauth_id%3D%7B%7Bdefault.session%7D%7D%26amp_url%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fbr.pinterest.com%252Famp%252Fpin%252F637611259737070131%252F&psig=AOvVaw3FD38n6f022k9xefSsz8g3&ust=1600003465852000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCPCfmcbb4-sCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD Regards, Dave. Previous Message Hi Dave...great post. I could not get a large image on my mobile. My instinct is that it looks like the brooch given to Diana POW by QEQM. Darkness of image seems to me to be sapphire more so than ruby or emerald. Previous Message Hi all, I was viewing a you tube documentary narrated by the Queen's youngest son the Earl of Wessex named Crown and Country and at (21:12) minutes into the program thee is a black and white photo of the then royal family with Queen Mary wearing a very large colored brooch at her neck. My first impression was that maybe it was the famous sapphire brooch associated with the late PDPoW, but then on a closer look it did not have the oval look of which that sapphire brooch has but then again that is only my opinion. Please take a look below. ?t=1272 Regards, Dave.

Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch & Ring Posted by Dave on September 14, 2020, 12:49 am, in reply to "Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch & Ring" Nice of you to join the discussion and this space fireweaver. I believe this is the first time I am seeing you, so a big welcome to you. Somehow the brooch at QM's neck seems to be much larger than the brooch you made mention of but it could be as it has a similar look. It just seems to be outstanding and very large. Regards, Dave. Previous Message It reminds me of the Marie Feodoronva sapphire brooch without the pearl pendant. Previous Message Thanks Mike, also on closer inspection one can also notice a colored ring on the right hand of the late QM. Could it be the sapphire one worn by HM? Please see below. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbr.pinterest.com%2Fpin%2F374291419032215513%2F%3Famp_client_id%3DCLIENT_ID (_)%26mweb_unauth_id%3D%7B%7Bdefault.session%7D%7D%26amp_url%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fbr.pinterest.com%252Famp%252Fpin%252F637611259737070131%252F&psig=AOvVaw3FD38n6f022k9xefSsz8g3&ust=1600003465852000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCPCfmcbb4-sCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD Regards, Dave. Previous Message Hi Dave...great post. I could not get a large image on my mobile. My instinct is that it looks like the brooch given to Diana POW by QEQM. Darkness of image seems to me to be sapphire more so than ruby or emerald. Previous Message Hi all, I was viewing a you tube documentary narrated by the Queen's youngest son the Earl of Wessex named Crown and Country and at (21:12) minutes into the program thee is a black and white photo of the then royal family with Queen Mary wearing a very large colored brooch at her neck. My first impression was that maybe it was the famous sapphire brooch associated with the late PDPoW, but then on a closer look it did not have the oval look of which that sapphire brooch has but then again that is only my opinion. Please take a look below. ?t=1272 Regards, Dave.

Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch & Ring Posted by Ashdean on September 14, 2020, 4:38 am, in reply to "Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch & Ring" Is it not one of the centre pieces from the Honeysuckle tiara? Perhaps the sapphire one later worn as a brooch by Princess Margaret? Previous Message Nice of you to join the discussion and this space fireweaver. I believe this is the first time I am seeing you, so a big welcome to you. Somehow the brooch at QM's neck seems to be much larger than the brooch you made mention of but it could be as it has a similar look. It just seems to be outstanding and very large. Regards, Dave. Previous Message It reminds me of the Marie Feodoronva sapphire brooch without the pearl pendant. Previous Message Thanks Mike, also on closer inspection one can also notice a colored ring on the right hand of the late QM. Could it be the sapphire one worn by HM? Please see below. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbr.pinterest.com%2Fpin%2F374291419032215513%2F%3Famp_client_id%3DCLIENT_ID (_)%26mweb_unauth_id%3D%7B%7Bdefault.session%7D%7D%26amp_url%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fbr.pinterest.com%252Famp%252Fpin%252F637611259737070131%252F&psig=AOvVaw3FD38n6f022k9xefSsz8g3&ust=1600003465852000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCPCfmcbb4-sCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD Regards, Dave. Previous Message Hi Dave...great post. I could not get a large image on my mobile. My instinct is that it looks like the brooch given to Diana POW by QEQM. Darkness of image seems to me to be sapphire more so than ruby or emerald. Previous Message Hi all, I was viewing a you tube documentary narrated by the Queen's youngest son the Earl of Wessex named Crown and Country and at (21:12) minutes into the program thee is a black and white photo of the then royal family with Queen Mary wearing a very large colored brooch at her neck. My first impression was that maybe it was the famous sapphire brooch associated with the late PDPoW, but then on a closer look it did not have the oval look of which that sapphire brooch has but then again that is only my opinion. Please take a look below. ?t=1272 Regards, Dave.

Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch & Ring Posted by fireweaver on September 14, 2020, 8:06 am, in reply to "Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch & Ring" Thank you Dave. I wonder if it could be the angle? Previous Message Nice of you to join the discussion and this space fireweaver. I believe this is the first time I am seeing you, so a big welcome to you. Somehow the brooch at QM's neck seems to be much larger than the brooch you made mention of but it could be as it has a similar look. It just seems to be outstanding and very large. Regards, Dave. Previous Message It reminds me of the Marie Feodoronva sapphire brooch without the pearl pendant. Previous Message Thanks Mike, also on closer inspection one can also notice a colored ring on the right hand of the late QM. Could it be the sapphire one worn by HM? Please see below. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbr.pinterest.com%2Fpin%2F374291419032215513%2F%3Famp_client_id%3DCLIENT_ID (_)%26mweb_unauth_id%3D%7B%7Bdefault.session%7D%7D%26amp_url%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fbr.pinterest.com%252Famp%252Fpin%252F637611259737070131%252F&psig=AOvVaw3FD38n6f022k9xefSsz8g3&ust=1600003465852000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCPCfmcbb4-sCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD Regards, Dave. Previous Message Hi Dave...great post. I could not get a large image on my mobile. My instinct is that it looks like the brooch given to Diana POW by QEQM. Darkness of image seems to me to be sapphire more so than ruby or emerald. Previous Message Hi all, I was viewing a you tube documentary narrated by the Queen's youngest son the Earl of Wessex named Crown and Country and at (21:12) minutes into the program thee is a black and white photo of the then royal family with Queen Mary wearing a very large colored brooch at her neck. My first impression was that maybe it was the famous sapphire brooch associated with the late PDPoW, but then on a closer look it did not have the oval look of which that sapphire brooch has but then again that is only my opinion. Please take a look below. ?t=1272 Regards, Dave.

Welcome Fireweaver Posted by Beth on September 14, 2020, 4:59 pm, in reply to "Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch & Ring" A warm welcome Fireweaver! You are really making us think with your suggestion.

Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch & Ring Posted by Beth on September 14, 2020, 5:19 pm, in reply to "Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch & Ring" It is a shame that the photo of Queen Mary with other members of the family at Sandringham wasn't taken with a sharper focus! Below are some photos of Queen Mary wearing the Marie Feodorovna's sapphire and pearl brooch. I think that the size of the sapphire matches better with the sapphire brooch HM wore in the wing tiara, which was later worn by Princess Margaret. but I could be very much mistaken. Queen Mary also wore it in the Honeysuckle tiara before giving the tiara to the Duchess of Gloucester.

Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch & Ring Posted by fireweaver on September 14, 2020, 11:47 pm, in reply to "Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch & Ring" I think you're right. Having seen those with the mf near the throat Previous Message It is a shame that the photo of Queen Mary with other members of the family at Sandringham wasn't taken with a sharper focus! Below are some photos of Queen Mary wearing the Marie Feodorovna's sapphire and pearl brooch. I think that the size of the sapphire matches better with the sapphire brooch HM wore in the wing tiara, which was later worn by Princess Margaret. but I could be very much mistaken. Queen Mary also wore it in the Honeysuckle tiara before giving the tiara to the Duchess of Gloucester.

Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch & Ring Posted by Dave on September 15, 2020, 9:09 am, in reply to "Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch & Ring" There is something not right, it keeps niggling at me. Beth in your second last pic the brooch at the Queen's neck looks very similar to the one worn by the late Diana PoW. I have been looking at pictures of the central stone in the winged tiara and it looks more of a square/ cushion cut than an oval cut. HM has in her possession the sapphire and diamond brooch from PA to his queen 'QV' but the diamonds on that piece are more pronounced and larger than the smaller ones noted on the late Diana's PoW's sapphire. Can anyone identify the brooch worn by QM at her bosom level at the theater, please see below. Also below is a link to Royal Jewels of the World message board which identifies the sapphires worn by QM and the same picture I originally posted is much enlarged in that post and it shows the sapphire QM wore was indeed from the winged tiara unless HM changed off into another more oval sapphire brooch. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fmembers2.boardhost.com%2Froyal-jewels%2Fmsg%2F1524868555.html&psig=AOvVaw3-3U2V8OAS8vx5sc7flri6&ust=1600211105127000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCIjW6ZTh6esCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD Regards, Dave. Previous Message It is a shame that the photo of Queen Mary with other members of the family at Sandringham wasn't taken with a sharper focus! Below are some photos of Queen Mary wearing the Marie Feodorovna's sapphire and pearl brooch. I think that the size of the sapphire matches better with the sapphire brooch HM wore in the wing tiara, which was later worn by Princess Margaret. but I could be very much mistaken. Queen Mary also wore it in the Honeysuckle tiara before giving the tiara to the Duchess of Gloucester.

Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch & Ring Posted by Beth on September 15, 2020, 6:31 pm, in reply to "Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch & Ring" I hope that I have understood Dave's comments correctly. If not, please accept my apologies Dave. Here is the 2nd last photo in my post above. The photo was (I believe) found by Dmitry and reposted on the Instagram site, BritishRoyalJewels. The finding of this photo was significant, as it completely revolutionised thinking about the origin of this brooch. Here is an enlarged detail, showing that the brooch is the same as the one worn in the wing tiara. The bows are the very distinctive feature of this brooch. It is the one which was later worn by Princess Margaret. Here is the enlarged detail I made of another version of the photo of the Royal family at Sandringham, Christmas 1951. (It is the one in my RJWMB post which Dave gave the link for) In this image the sapphire looks more like that in the brooch referred to above. (I think it was Ashdean who identified the brooch some years ago. Or am I wrong on that?) The quality of both versions of the photo makes it almost impossible to be certain about which brooch Queen Mary was wearing, but most accept that it was the brooch worn in the wing tiara -- as Ashdean suggested in his reply above. https://mb.boardhost.com/historyroyaljewels/msg/1600022303.html Although Ashdean wasn't being categorical, I have found over the years that his modestly phrased suggestions are usually accurate. Dave, I am not sure which image you were referring to regarding the brooch pinned to the centre of Queen Mary's dress. Could it be this one, where HM is seen at a theatre with her brother and Princess Alice? I think that Queen Mary was wearing what we refer to as the Russian sapphire brooch. What do others think? I don't think that the brooch we are discussing is the one worn by Princess Diana, as I agree with Franck that it first appeared being worn by Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother. I don't think that it was ever in Queen Mary's possession -- but I know I could be wrong. But, the evidence Franck produced some time ago is very strong.

Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch & Ring Posted by Franck on September 15, 2020, 7:13 pm, in reply to "Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch & Ring" I° I also do think that Queen Mary was wearing the brooch also worn with the wing tiara at Sandringham, Christmas 1951. We can clearly see the bows and the bigger diamonds. I do hope that this brooch and the tiara are in the vault....QEII lacks sapphire tiaras. II° Queen Mary was wearing the Russian sapphire brooch at Theatre in 1948. III° I was struck by the choker worn by QM in 1948. Maybe an unknown sapphire choker ? Franck Previous Message I hope that I have understood Dave's comments correctly. If not, please accept my apologies Dave. Here is the 2nd last photo in my post above. The photo was (I believe) found by Dmitry and reposted on the Instagram site, BritishRoyalJewels. The finding of this photo was significant, as it completely revolutionised thinking about the origin of this brooch. Here is an enlarged detail, showing that the brooch is the same as the one worn in the wing tiara. The bows are the very distinctive feature of this brooch. It is the one which was later worn by Princess Margaret. Here is the enlarged detail I made of another version of the photo of the Royal family at Sandringham, Christmas 1951. (It is the one in my RJWMB post which Dave gave the link for) In this image the sapphire looks more like that in the brooch referred to above. (I think it was Ashdean who identified the brooch some years ago. Or am I wrong on that?) The quality of both versions of the photo makes it almost impossible to be certain about which brooch Queen Mary was wearing, but most accept that it was the brooch worn in the wing tiara -- as Ashdean suggested in his reply above. https://mb.boardhost.com/historyroyaljewels/msg/1600022303.html Although Ashdean wasn't being categorical, I have found over the years that his modestly phrased suggestions are usually accurate. Dave, I am not sure which image you were referring to regarding the brooch pinned to the centre of Queen Mary's dress. Could it be this one, where HM is seen at a theatre with her brother and Princess Alice? I think that Queen Mary was wearing what we refer to as the Russian sapphire brooch. What do others think? I don't think that the brooch we are discussing is the one worn by Princess Diana, as I agree with Franck that it first appeared being worn by Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother. I don't think that it was ever in Queen Mary's possession -- but I know I could be wrong. But, the evidence Franck produced some time ago is very strong.

Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch & Ring Posted by Dave on September 15, 2020, 10:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Queen Mary's large colored neck Brooch & Ring" Hi Beth, hope you are well. Yes you have correctly touched and answered all of my queries. I guess it's the black and white of it all but the brooch sure does look and appear different making one feel that it is different in shape and appearance. But thank you all for this lively talk, it was good. Many Thanks, Dave. Previous Message I hope that I have understood Dave's comments correctly. If not, please accept my apologies Dave. Here is the 2nd last photo in my post above. The photo was (I believe) found by Dmitry and reposted on the Instagram site, BritishRoyalJewels. The finding of this photo was significant, as it completely revolutionised thinking about the origin of this brooch. Here is an enlarged detail, showing that the brooch is the same as the one worn in the wing tiara. The bows are the very distinctive feature of this brooch. It is the one which was later worn by Princess Margaret. Here is the enlarged detail I made of another version of the photo of the Royal family at Sandringham, Christmas 1951. (It is the one in my RJWMB post which Dave gave the link for) In this image the sapphire looks more like that in the brooch referred to above. (I think it was Ashdean who identified the brooch some years ago. Or am I wrong on that?) The quality of both versions of the photo makes it almost impossible to be certain about which brooch Queen Mary was wearing, but most accept that it was the brooch worn in the wing tiara -- as Ashdean suggested in his reply above. https://mb.boardhost.com/historyroyaljewels/msg/1600022303.html Although Ashdean wasn't being categorical, I have found over the years that his modestly phrased suggestions are usually accurate. Dave, I am not sure which image you were referring to regarding the brooch pinned to the centre of Queen Mary's dress. Could it be this one, where HM is seen at a theatre with her brother and Princess Alice? I think that Queen Mary was wearing what we refer to as the Russian sapphire brooch. What do others think? I don't think that the brooch we are discussing is the one worn by Princess Diana, as I agree with Franck that it first appeared being worn by Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother. I don't think that it was ever in Queen Mary's possession -- but I know I could be wrong. But, the evidence Franck produced some time ago is very strong.

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