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Queen consort crown
Posted by Csaba on December 12, 2020, 6:12 pm
In the band of the crown of Queen Elizabeth the queen mother there are some big diamonds alongside the gift of the ottoman sultan. Do we know where these diamonds came from?
Re: Queen consort crown
Posted by Beth on December 13, 2020, 10:19 am, in reply to "Queen consort crown"
A very interesting question Csaba!
I have never delved into the details of Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother's crown. According to the Royal Collection site, Queen Victoria's Regal circlet was dismantled and the diamonds used in QEQM's crown.
When I looked closely at QEQM's crown I noticed that the diamonds in the band are set slightly differently from those in Queen Victoria's Regal circlet. Whereas in Queen Victoria's circlet the larger diamonds in the band are set horizontally, in QEQM's crown they are positioned vertically.
QEQM's crown
Queen Victoria's Regal circlet (frame)
The band from QEQM's crown
The band from Queen Victoria's Regal circlet
I strongly suspect that the larger diamonds in both bands are the same; just set differently.
Thank you Beth! I do recall, now that the stones from queen Victoria's circlet were used which came from Queen Adelaide grand circlet, which came from queen Charlotte's grand stomacher. Plus some extra diamonds after the hannoverian claim. Then another question... Where did the stones for queen Mary's consort crown come from? When it was made Queen Alexandra was still alive, so not from her crown. But for queen Elizabeth's coronation they could have used some stones from QAlexandra's crown... I think today all the stones in QAlexandra's crown are paste stones.
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A very interesting question Csaba!
I have never delved into the details of Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother's crown. According to the Royal Collection site, Queen Victoria's Regal circlet was dismantled and the diamonds used in QEQM's crown.
When I looked closely at QEQM's crown I noticed that the diamonds in the band are set slightly differently from those in Queen Victoria's Regal circlet. Whereas in Queen Victoria's circlet the larger diamonds in the band are set horizontally, in QEQM's crown they are positioned vertically.
QEQM's crown
Queen Victoria's Regal circlet (frame)
The band from QEQM's crown
The band from Queen Victoria's Regal circlet
I strongly suspect that the larger diamonds in both bands are the same; just set differently.
I have never done any detailed reading on the crowns of Queens Alexandra, Mary or Elizabeth, the Queen Mother.
Below is what I know about the crown of Queen Alexandra.
1. The Queen commissioned her crown from Carrington and Co which in turn commissioned the manufacturing jewellers, Wolfe and Co (the company name used to be spelt as Wolff), to manufacture the crown.
Apart from the Koh-i-noor (and perhaps another few large stones) the diamonds were hired. This explains why today all the "diamonds" are paste.
At some time after the coronation the real diamonds were stripped from the crown and paste substituted.
Carrington and Co (and perhaps diamond merchants who supplied the diamonds) then sold the diamonds, no doubt asking a premium for the individual stones.
One who purchased at least one of the large stones was Sir Weetman Pearson, later Viscount Cowdray. The information for this comes from news reports of gifts given to his daughter, Gertrude Mary, who married the 3rd Baron Denman in November 1903.
Some of the reports state that the diamond in question was set in a ring and was heart shaped; others state that the diamond was set in a ruby and diamond ring. As I cannot see any heart shaped diamonds in Queen Alexandra's crown, I assume that the diamond was a round one. Precisely how the ring was set is unknown as I did not find any sketches or photos for her gifts -- but it is several years since I looked.
Diamond and ruby ring
Heart shaped ring
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Thank you Beth! I do recall, now that the stones from queen Victoria's circlet were used which came from Queen Adelaide grand circlet, which came from queen Charlotte's grand stomacher. Plus some extra diamonds after the hannoverian claim. Then another question... Where did the stones for queen Mary's consort crown come from? When it was made Queen Alexandra was still alive, so not from her crown. But for queen Elizabeth's coronation they could have used some stones from QAlexandra's crown... I think today all the stones in QAlexandra's crown are paste stones.
Previous Message
A very interesting question Csaba!
I have never delved into the details of Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother's crown. According to the Royal Collection site, Queen Victoria's Regal circlet was dismantled and the diamonds used in QEQM's crown.
When I looked closely at QEQM's crown I noticed that the diamonds in the band are set slightly differently from those in Queen Victoria's Regal circlet. Whereas in Queen Victoria's circlet the larger diamonds in the band are set horizontally, in QEQM's crown they are positioned vertically.
QEQM's crown
Queen Victoria's Regal circlet (frame)
The band from QEQM's crown
The band from Queen Victoria's Regal circlet
I strongly suspect that the larger diamonds in both bands are the same; just set differently.
As far as I know all the diamonds in Queen Mary's crown were her private property, except for the Koh-i-noor diamond which Queen Victoria made an heirloom of the Crown.
In the front of the band, Queen Mary had Cullinan IV mounted and Cullinan III was set in the cross surmounting the monde. The Koh-i-noor was set in the front cross pattee.
After Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother became Queen the Koh-i-noor was set in her crown and Queen Mary used the heart shaped Cullinan V in its brooch setting to replace the Koh-i-noor.
As a circlet with a crystal replica of the Koh-i-noor and Cullinan IV in the band.
For the 1937 coronation (when the Koh-i-noor was given to Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother) Queen Mary substituted the Cullinan V in its brooch setting in place of the Koh-i-noor and modified the band so that she could wear Cullinan III & IV in the brooch fitting as a corsage jewel, both of these diamonds being her personal property.
Cullinan V as a brooch
1937 coronation showing Queen Mary wearing Cullinan III & IV as a corsage jewel and Cullinan V in the circlet portion of her crown.
1937 coronation
How the Cullinan V brooch was used can be seen more clearly in this 1938 photograph.
Re: Queen consort crown
Posted by Dave on December 14, 2020, 8:44 am, in reply to "Queen consort crown"
One wonders if the stones are privately owned or part of the state jewels? After all there was at one time 3 Queens alive at one time in the UK, 2 Queen mothers being QM and QEQM and then the present Queen. They must of all had their own jewels seeing that the late QEQM had a massive bequest from her friend Margaret Grenville.
Regards
Dave.
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In the band of the crown of Queen Elizabeth the queen mother there are some big diamonds alongside the gift of the ottoman sultan. Do we know where these diamonds came from?
As far as I know the gemstones in the crowns of Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother are all privately owned. The Koh-i-noor, as an heirloom of the Crown, did not belong personally to either queen, but is owned privately by the crown, not by the state. Although these crowns are on display in the Tower of London along with the Crown Regalia, they remain private property.
Thank you for your detailed response! Much appreciated! I wonder which crown will be used for the next coronation, if Camilla will be crowned queen. Or maybe we will have to wait until Catherine is crowned queen...
Previous Message
As far as I know the gemstones in the crowns of Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother are all privately owned. The Koh-i-noor, as an heirloom of the Crown, did not belong personally to either queen, but is owned privately by the crown, not by the state. Although these crowns are on display in the Tower of London along with the Crown Regalia, they remain private property.