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Fringe Tiaras - Vladimir & City of London Fringe Posted by Sam (The Beau Monde) on February 2, 2021, 10:41 pm Hey everyone, hope you are all still keeping safe and well. I have decided to write an enormously long and detailed post regarding Fringe Tiaras (I am that bored) and I am trying to write a clear and concise explanation as to why Princess Marina wore the Vladimir Fringe and not the City of London Fringe to her wedding. In my research I have come across the story of Molly Fink, the Rani of Pudukotai and this is where I am getting confused. Grand Duchess Vladimir died in 1921. Some accounts claim that Molly's husband bought her the Vladimir Fringe then she sold it back to the City of London in 1934 for Princess Marina's wedding. But Princess Marina's sister Elizabeth married Count Carl Theodor of Törring-Jettenbach in Jan 1934 and she wore the Vladimir tiara. Also Princess Nicolas continued to wear the fringe in her old age. So, what I'm asking is does anyone have any evidence of: a. Where Molly Fink's tiara came from? b. Where the City of London bought Princess Marina's Fringe tiara? Thanks Sam

Re: Vladimir Fringe vs Kent City of London Fringe Posted by The Royal Watcher on February 5, 2021, 7:44 am, in reply to "Fringe Tiaras - Vladimir & City of London Fringe " Hey Sam! This is such a fascinating topic. It is possible that the Fringe Tiara of Grand Duchess Vladimir and the Fringe Tiara worn by her daughter, Grand Duchess Elena are two separate pieces, which is not unusual for such a large collection. Grand Duchess Elena probably got her Fringe Tiara as a wedding gift, and inherited her mother's tiara in 1920, when it was possibly sold to the Rani of Pudukkottai, which was later bought by the City of London (the only example of this story I've found was on Artemisias Royal Jewels). This is what is now known as the Kent City of London Fringe Tiara, now belonging to Prince Michael of Kent. I spotted the Fringe Tiara being worn by Grand Duchess Elena's eldest daughter, Princess Olga, at the Wedding of Prince Philipp of Hesse and Princess Mafalda of Savoy in 1925, which would mean it was still in the family between 1920 and 1934. This Tiara is what I termed the Vladimir Fringe Tiara, which is now owned by Prince Michael's cousin, Archduchess Helene of Austria.

Re: Vladimir Fringe vs Kent City of London Fringe Posted by Eiriksn on February 5, 2021, 6:40 pm, in reply to "Re: Vladimir Fringe vs Kent City of London Fringe " A very interesting topic😊 In “Tiaras, a history of splendour” Geoffrey Munn states that the City of London tiara “is unusual in that it flares at the sides to charming effect, and unlike many other tiaras made in the kokoshnik style, it does not dismantle to make a necklace”. There is a picture of the grand duchess wearing what seems to be her fringe shaped around an emerald in the middle. If this is her fringe tiara that must have been a very flexible piece. If this is the same piece as the City of London, some adjustments must have been made, maybe a new frame. Considering her massive collection one of course cannot rule out that she had several fringes, but I think it seems unlikely that it’s the same piece as she wore in her hair almost like a sun. Unless some changes were made.

Re: Fringe Tiaras - Vladimir & City of London Fringe Posted by altezania Mompox on February 5, 2021, 3:37 pm, in reply to "Fringe Tiaras - Vladimir & City of London Fringe " Very simply this is another fringe tiara Durham fringe tiara u can realize because the edge of the spikes are round and no pointed like others fringes tiaras Im sorry I don't know how post the pictures https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2f/ce/d8/2fced828b6aec5cd44cf44b38b1e1703.jpg

Re: Fringe Tiaras - Vladimir & City of London Fringe Posted by Sam (The Beau Monde) on February 6, 2021, 4:54 am, in reply to "Fringe Tiaras - Vladimir & City of London Fringe " Thank you everyone for your responses I am very lucky in the fact that my employer is a former alderman of the City of London Corporation. I contacted him during lockdown and always he has graciously offered to help me in my research. He has suggested that I contact the archivists at the City of London in his name to try and get to the bottom of this and I look forward to finally solving this mystery once and for all! I will keep you all posted with findings. Sam xxx

Re: Fringe Tiaras - Vladimir & City of London Fringe Posted by LauraM on February 6, 2021, 6:21 am, in reply to "Re: Fringe Tiaras - Vladimir & City of London Fringe " Hi Sam As a daughter of a Prince and Grand Duchess, it makes perfect sense to me that Marina would wear a family piece as her tiara. The Greek royal family may have been in exile and relatively impoverished when compared to her new in-laws but they still had wonderful jewelry. What exciting news about contacting the City of London archivist! Laura Previous Message Thank you everyone for your responses I am very lucky in the fact that my employer is a former alderman of the City of London Corporation. I contacted him during lockdown and always he has graciously offered to help me in my research. He has suggested that I contact the archivists at the City of London in his name to try and get to the bottom of this and I look forward to finally solving this mystery once and for all! I will keep you all posted with findings. Sam xxx

Re: Fringe Tiaras - Vladimir & City of London Fringe Posted by Dave on February 6, 2021, 1:06 pm, in reply to "Re: Fringe Tiaras - Vladimir & City of London Fringe " Lets see, what information we can dig up now. Regards, Dave. Previous Message Thank you everyone for your responses I am very lucky in the fact that my employer is a former alderman of the City of London Corporation. I contacted him during lockdown and always he has graciously offered to help me in my research. He has suggested that I contact the archivists at the City of London in his name to try and get to the bottom of this and I look forward to finally solving this mystery once and for all! I will keep you all posted with findings. Sam xxx

Re: Fringe Tiaras - Vladimir & City of London Fringe Posted by Beth on February 6, 2021, 7:30 pm, in reply to "Re: Fringe Tiaras - Vladimir & City of London Fringe " What a wonderful break through Sam!! I wonder if the fact that the Guildhall Library is currently closed will mean that the librarians cannot work or if the library is just closed to visitors? I suspect that the City of London fringe would have been purchased from a jeweller or dealer in antiques and, if it had previously belonged to the Ranee, it would not have been purchased directly from her. I have never found any press items on the provenance of the tiara, where the City purchased it or the price. That is in marked contrast to the gifts given to Queen Alexandra and Queen Mary, but in line with the policy adopted for the wedding of Princess Mary and QEQM. The City of London fringe cannot have been the Vladimir fringe as it was seen worn long after Princess Marina married. Another interesting piece of information has just come up in the webinar of the Cartiers and the British Royals where at 1.16.17 it says that Princess Marina wore her mother's tiara on her wedding day. For the webinar see If Geoffery Munn is correct and the City of London fringe does not convert to a necklace it seems to my untrained eye that it would not have been able to have been worn as a bandeau as we saw the Ranee wear her fringe tiara. I think that for a tiara to be worn like that, there would need to be a degree of flexibility. Nor do I think that the Ranee's tiara flares at the side. But perhaps I am mistaken. Fringes, like collet necklaces are something which I have no real eye for!

Re: Fringe Tiaras - Vladimir & City of London Fringe Posted by 992234177 on February 8, 2021, 3:44 am, in reply to "Re: Fringe Tiaras - Vladimir & City of London Fringe " i can’t remember where but I seem to remember reading that GDV received a fringe at her wedding and her daughter also received a fringe from Tsar Nicholas II at her wedding. Elena inherited her mothers so had two. She then sold her own wedding tiara and retained her mother’s, perhaps because her mother’s could convert to a necklace. Therefore Pss Elizabeth received the Vladimir and Pss Marina was given the Elena.

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