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Queen Mother Mystery Jewels Paris 1938 More images. Posted by Beth on May 25, 2022, 2:59 pm We now have some more images from the UK State visit to France in 1938. Our fellow poster, Thomas sent me some more images. They show QEQM & other dignitaries at an evening entertainment at the Quai d'Orsay on the same evening as the official dinner. The photos Franck found showed QEQM at the dinner table. (As usual the French press paid a lot of attention to the food served & the splendid table decorations. The menu looks inviting!) I will try to explain each set of photos as I go along. I hope I don't miss anything. I think it is important to know that the King & Queen were staying at the Quai d'Orsay. The dinner was at the Quai d'Orsay, so there are no arrival or departure photos. Just those which Franck & Thomas have found Photos found by Franck Photo found by Thomas Some comparisons Just for those who are interested in fine cuisine. The menu

Re: Queen Mother Mystery Jewels Paris 1938 More images. Posted by AndrewU on May 25, 2022, 3:38 pm, in reply to "Queen Mother Mystery Jewels Paris 1938 More images." Yes, the Greville Tiara for sure. On the photo with the crowd watching some performance, I see the 2nd Spencer Tiara!!!! Previous Message We now have some more images from the UK State visit to France in 1938. Our fellow poster, Thomas sent me some more images. They show QEQM & other dignitaries at an evening entertainment at the Quai d'Orsay on the same evening as the official dinner. The photos Franck found showed QEQM at the dinner table. (As usual the French press paid a lot of attention to the food served & the splendid table decorations. The menu looks inviting!) I will try to explain each set of photos as I go along. I hope I don't miss anything. I think it is important to know that the King & Queen were staying at the Quai d'Orsay. The dinner was at the Quai d'Orsay, so there are no arrival or departure photos. Just those which Franck & Thomas have found Photos found by Franck Photo found by Thomas Some comparisons Just for those who are interested in fine cuisine. The menu

Re: Queen Mother Mystery Jewels Paris 1938 More images. Posted by JohnAF on May 25, 2022, 7:39 pm, in reply to "Queen Mother Mystery Jewels Paris 1938 More images." The necklace worn by QE reminds me of Mrs Greville's diamond necklace (as worn by the DoC in Uganda), but it can't be as Mrs Greville didn't die until 1942.

Re: Queen Mother Mystery Jewels Paris 1938 More images. Posted by Kongetro on May 25, 2022, 8:13 pm, in reply to "Re: Queen Mother Mystery Jewels Paris 1938 More images." If the Queen is indeed wearing (as it looks like now having this new photograph) the Greville Honeycomb tiara for this event, then I do not see why it could not also be the large Greville Diamond necklace around the Queen's neck. This does indeed raise a lot of questions though: was the jewels borrowed from Mrs Greville? Had Mrs Greville already given her jewels to the Queen. Were some of Mrs Greville's jewels gifted to the Queen during her lifetime while the rest only past to the Queen after Mrs Greville's death? And if they were borrowed, why did not the Queen borrow from, say, Queen Mary instead of asking a private citizen to lend her some of her grandest jewels? It is not as if the Queen was without access to grand jewels as I believe she had already by that time been given Queen Mary's Fringe tiara. And of course, the double Greek meander tiara was lingering in the vaults.. It is all very intriguing and confusing at the same time. Kongetro To visit my website Regal Events use this link: https://regalevents913271078.wordpress.com/

Re: Queen Mother Mystery Jewels Paris 1938 More images. Posted by Beth on May 25, 2022, 9:33 pm, in reply to "Re: Queen Mother Mystery Jewels Paris 1938 More images." I thought I'd make a quick comment here before I shut down my computer for the night. 1. I am trying to avoid commenting on the jewels (giving my opinion) until Franck has a chance to reply to queries here and on Instagram. 2. We are all on different time zones, so no doubt this will all be a bit disjointed. For those who haven't caught up with my Instagram site, there are 3 posts dealing with this topic at https://www.instagram.com/historyfamousjewels/ The individual pages are at https://www.instagram.com/p/Cd9PS3qPjLk/ https://www.instagram.com/p/Cd9toG6vRup/ https://www.instagram.com/p/Cd-K4wFvnZL/ I know that sometimes Instagram blocks people if they are not members -- I really do not understand why, but that happened to me sometimes before I joined. To answer at least some of the queries here. 1. I have definite evidence that Mrs Greville was wearing the 5 strand necklace after the Paris state visit. 2. The press frequently mentions her splendid diamond tiara. My question is always - "Which one?" I strongly suspect that Mrs Greville didn't give the jewels to QEQM as a gift prior to her death. But the answers to those questions will be in the Royal Archives in the valuations done by Christie's after Mrs Greville's death. A valuation had to be done for the British Tax authorities, & duties (taxes) had to be paid. Those records are not with the will & the government's copy of the valuation would have been destroyed 30 years after Mrs Greville's death. (I have checked. They are no longer in the archives) That is standard procedure, and was not done because the jewels went to QEQM. A copy of the valuation is in the Royal Archives. We know that because of the sources cited by Hugh Roberts in his book, The Queen's Diamonds.

Re: Queen Mother Mystery Jewels Paris 1938 We can clear up one point Posted by Beth on May 25, 2022, 10:45 pm, in reply to "Re: Queen Mother Mystery Jewels Paris 1938 More images." Part of the discussion here & on Instagram concerns the possibility that Mrs Greville might have given the festoon necklace & earrings to QEQM before her death. 1. As I said earlier I have press reports stating Mrs Greville wore the 5 strand necklace after the 1938 Paris visit by QEQM. 2. I said that some of the answers would be in the Christie's valuation done after Mrs Greville's death. 3. They are! When I re-checked in Hugh Roberts' book I found in his footnotes proof that both the 5 strand festoon necklace & the earrings were valued by Christie's after Mrs Greville's death. 4. The Greville diamond tiara (now with the Duchess of Cornwall) was also valued by Christie's So none of these jewels was given to QEQM before the death of Mrs Greville in 1942. As the festoon necklace & the earrings were not fully completed until circa May 1938 it seems to me highly unlikely they could be considered as a coronation gift. The coronation was on 12 May 1937 -- a year before the jewels were in their final form.

Re: Queen Mother Mystery Jewels Paris 1938 We can clear up one point Posted by Gr8ham on May 26, 2022, 3:57 am, in reply to "Re: Queen Mother Mystery Jewels Paris 1938 We can clear up one point" Is it possible it is Queen Mary's Iveagh Tiara now with the Gloucesters? It also has a somewhat vertical line to the segments when viewed in older photos along with a smooth top and tapering to the ends.

Re: Queen Mother Mystery Jewels Paris 1938 More images. Posted by Dave on May 28, 2022, 11:39 am, in reply to "Re: Queen Mother Mystery Jewels Paris 1938 More images." Hmmmmm, I did a simple search on the wedding presents gifted to the late QEQM and found she was gifted several necklaces of diamonds and pearls. (01): From her Father the Earl of Strathmore: A rope necklace of pearls and diamonds. (02): From her mother: A pearl and diamond necklace platinum sautoir necklace. (03): From the Citizens of London: A pearl and diamond sautoir consisting of five rows of pearls mounted on fine platinum wiree with a large pearl drop. So my guess is that maybe the necklace the late QEQM is wearing in the photo could be probably the one from the Citizens of London. As for the tiara I'm leaning to the Queen Alexandra kokosnick all diamond tiara or it is possible there are tiaras within the BRF that we know absolutely nothing about. Regards, Dave. Previous Message I thought I'd make a quick comment here before I shut down my computer for the night. 1. I am trying to avoid commenting on the jewels (giving my opinion) until Franck has a chance to reply to queries here and on Instagram. 2. We are all on different time zones, so no doubt this will all be a bit disjointed. For those who haven't caught up with my Instagram site, there are 3 posts dealing with this topic at https://www.instagram.com/historyfamousjewels/ The individual pages are at https://www.instagram.com/p/Cd9PS3qPjLk/ https://www.instagram.com/p/Cd9toG6vRup/ https://www.instagram.com/p/Cd-K4wFvnZL/ I know that sometimes Instagram blocks people if they are not members -- I really do not understand why, but that happened to me sometimes before I joined. To answer at least some of the queries here. 1. I have definite evidence that Mrs Greville was wearing the 5 strand necklace after the Paris state visit. 2. The press frequently mentions her splendid diamond tiara. My question is always - "Which one?" I strongly suspect that Mrs Greville didn't give the jewels to QEQM as a gift prior to her death. But the answers to those questions will be in the Royal Archives in the valuations done by Christie's after Mrs Greville's death. A valuation had to be done for the British Tax authorities, & duties (taxes) had to be paid. Those records are not with the will & the government's copy of the valuation would have been destroyed 30 years after Mrs Greville's death. (I have checked. They are no longer in the archives) That is standard procedure, and was not done because the jewels went to QEQM. A copy of the valuation is in the Royal Archives. We know that because of the sources cited by Hugh Roberts in his book, The Queen's Diamonds.

Re: Queen Mother Mystery Jewels Paris 1938 More images. Posted by Kongetro on June 1, 2022, 8:28 pm, in reply to "Re: Queen Mother Mystery Jewels Paris 1938 More images." Thank you for the list of alternative possibilities Dave when it comes to the necklace. Sadly the quality of the photographs is not so good as to get a proper look at the necklace worn. So I do not want to speculate that much but it could be one of the alternatives you mentioned, or even a combination of those. When it comes to the tiara... I am still not convinced that it is a fringe / kokoshnik tiara. To me the empty space between the diamond elements is too big and the sides just too levelled with the front in order for it to be a fringe. If it were Queen Alexandra's kokoshnik she would have had to borrow that from Queen Mary, which I find unlikely as Queen Elizabeth had access to a perfectly magnificent fringe tiara she could have worn. I do hope others will "chip in" on the discussion here as I myself do not have an instagram account. Call me old-fashioned or daft but I have a sort of aversion to sites like Facebook, Instagram or any place where I have to accept cookies and who-knows-what in order to be able to see the content. Previous Message Hmmmmm, I did a simple search on the wedding presents gifted to the late QEQM and found she was gifted several necklaces of diamonds and pearls. (01): From her Father the Earl of Strathmore: A rope necklace of pearls and diamonds. (02): From her mother: A pearl and diamond necklace platinum sautoir necklace. (03): From the Citizens of London: A pearl and diamond sautoir consisting of five rows of pearls mounted on fine platinum wiree with a large pearl drop. So my guess is that maybe the necklace the late QEQM is wearing in the photo could be probably the one from the Citizens of London. As for the tiara I'm leaning to the Queen Alexandra kokosnick all diamond tiara or it is possible there are tiaras within the BRF that we know absolutely nothing about. Regards, Dave. Previous Message I thought I'd make a quick comment here before I shut down my computer for the night. 1. I am trying to avoid commenting on the jewels (giving my opinion) until Franck has a chance to reply to queries here and on Instagram. 2. We are all on different time zones, so no doubt this will all be a bit disjointed. For those who haven't caught up with my Instagram site, there are 3 posts dealing with this topic at https://www.instagram.com/historyfamousjewels/ The individual pages are at https://www.instagram.com/p/Cd9PS3qPjLk/ https://www.instagram.com/p/Cd9toG6vRup/ https://www.instagram.com/p/Cd-K4wFvnZL/ I know that sometimes Instagram blocks people if they are not members -- I really do not understand why, but that happened to me sometimes before I joined. To answer at least some of the queries here. 1. I have definite evidence that Mrs Greville was wearing the 5 strand necklace after the Paris state visit. 2. The press frequently mentions her splendid diamond tiara. My question is always - "Which one?" I strongly suspect that Mrs Greville didn't give the jewels to QEQM as a gift prior to her death. But the answers to those questions will be in the Royal Archives in the valuations done by Christie's after Mrs Greville's death. A valuation had to be done for the British Tax authorities, & duties (taxes) had to be paid. Those records are not with the will & the government's copy of the valuation would have been destroyed 30 years after Mrs Greville's death. (I have checked. They are no longer in the archives) That is standard procedure, and was not done because the jewels went to QEQM. A copy of the valuation is in the Royal Archives. We know that because of the sources cited by Hugh Roberts in his book, The Queen's Diamonds. Kongetro To visit my website Regal Events use this link: https://regalevents913271078.wordpress.com/

Re: Queen Mother Mystery Jewels Paris 1938 More images. Posted by Laurent F on May 26, 2022, 2:15 am, in reply to "Queen Mother Mystery Jewels Paris 1938 More images." You can find the pictures on the newspapers of the 22nd of July 1938 which can be downloaded on https://gallica.bnf.fr Search l’intransigeant or le petit parisien https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k664624t/f10.item# https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k7959061/f8.item#

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