Religion and Ethics BBS

Religion and Ethics BBS
[ Religion and Ethics BBS ]

should non-citizens, of any country, be allowed to protest against others, in their own?

Posted by scott on March 24, 2025, 7:02 am

For instance, I do not agree that a non-citizen should be allowed to come to this country and act to influence the US political process.

Non-citizens should NOT have the same rights of free speech at a citizen in the US.

Coming in the guise of learning at our institutios then fomenting rebellion and lawbreaking is just wrong.

Within limits, I have no problem with it.

Posted by 7:77 on March 24, 2025, 6:07 pm, in reply to "should non-citizens, of any country, be allowed to protest against others, in their own?"

As you say, "fomenting rebellion and lawbreaking" are unacceptable, and in my view should result in revocation of their visa. But peaceful protests that remain within the bounds of the law? I have no problem with that, even if I disagree with the content.

Have you ever hear of Laredo cigarettes?

Posted by scott on March 24, 2025, 10:15 pm, in reply to "Within limits, I have no problem with it."

More tomorrow about this friend, I've had a late busy day. Who knew retirement is just more work...lol...

But look them up..then I'll give you my anaolgy of what I'm on about...

p.s My Yemen Sunni RN friend and I have had similar conversations many years ago.. and we're still friends. He and his lawyer wife, and then 8 kids ..were enough to keep him busy.

later sara

the machine that's supposed to satisfy.. part one

Posted by scott on March 25, 2025, 10:52 am, in reply to "Have you ever hear of Laredo cigarettes?"

First.. for other reader's sake... just what Laredo cigarettes means.

A short AI review for better definition and for my piece of this conversation.

Laredo cigarettes, introduced in the early 1970s, were unique because they offered a "do-it-yourself" approach to smoking. The Laredo kit included loose tobacco, cigarette papers, filters, and a plastic rolling machine. Smokers could roll their own cigarettes, which was marketed as a cost-effective and customizable alternative to pre-made packs.

The appeal lay in the novelty and the potential savings, as cigarette prices were rising at the time. However, the product faced criticism for being cumbersome to use, with inconsistent results—some cigarettes were too tightly packed to smoke, while others were too loose. Despite its innovative concept, the Laredo brand eventually faded from the market.

Ok.. here are interesting, to me, tie in bits bout the "human condition" as some would call it.

The "do-it-yourself" fix. I remember actually trying these machines for the novelty but moreover... because of the surrounding marketing and cultural acceptance of smoking. I didn't last long.. lol.. but I was sold on some things.. and hooked on others. I was sold because all my close friends were smoking, and it was the thing to do. And we were all into it because our parents smoked, marketing geniuses told us "Winston tastes good like a cigarette should", LSMFT- which was an acronym for "Lucky Strikes Means Fine Tobaccos", and even the "Marlboro man" made smoking cool.
We weren't exactly told nor really aware of the addicting qualities yet, but even though cancer was possibly related, no one cared that much. We had a choice to "do-it-ourselves" so we did.

And as cigarette machines were everywhere available, it wasn't hard to buy a pack even for underaged kids. (Probably their biggest customers)

Anyway we look at it tho, smoking nicotine is death.

And it was true.. judging how much or how little became an art.. and also a waste. Mastering disaster seems the human lot when I look back at my own history in many avenues.

Laredo machines went the way of the market's desires as the above said.

But not smoking. Even in the early face of increased scrutiny, the addiction had settled in for the long haul. The emotional one turned into a physical one and the fight has been on ever since. And increasing ground has been won actually to curb some of it, but humans will still find other more self-destructive things to replace it. Alcohol, drugs, lifestyles. And the list is extensive. But it is still deadly.

My point is we tend to poison ourselves. in knowledge, pharmacology, philosophically, and religion. Because we're still looking for something firm to land on. Something solid, good, not harmful.

But we hardly ever retreat from even the known harmful influences.
sorrythis is getting lengthy but... it wouldn't be me without that, right?

Now, is it good to let some "influences" in and try to adopt, adapt, or at least understand them? Honestly no... we do it here daily..I particularly enjoy many conversations even if I don't get on the thread myself.

And there in lies the rub for many. We're still sheep in many ways. Prone to wander and needing something solid to guide us, a dog perhaps to fetch us, and a fence to protect us.

God created us, imho..but also had set limitations.. we can break them, but at our own peril, we're always warned.

I could show you instances of why it's not good to break those fences. And I need to continue my post..but my wife needs to get us out of the house.. so part two is coming.. be patient.. thanks

On balance, their "peaceful protests" are rarely peaceful.

Posted by Mondo Fuego™ on March 24, 2025, 6:31 pm, in reply to "Within limits, I have no problem with it."

Muslim dissidents are prone to violence, and yes, I am a bit rationally and learnedly prejudiced, based on empirical observation, weight of confirmation and recorded history, but I am not xenophobic. When I lived in Cleveland (the "melting pot of the nation, with 100,000 strong of every Indo-European, Mediterranean and other nationalities) for 15 years, I had friends from Latvia, Poland, Hungary, Armenia, Italy, Greece, England, Serbia, India, China and elsewhere.

As Lyle Lovett says, "I love (almost) everybody", with a bit of his sentiment and seasoning.

And, now I have a friend who lives in Japan.

It remains a challenge for me...

Posted by 7:77 on March 24, 2025, 8:32 pm, in reply to "On balance, their "peaceful protests" are rarely peaceful."

...to be objective about Islam and its practitioners. The religion is doctrinally misogynist and homophobic. Its radical Islamist element is demonstrably violent and unequivocal in its intent to take over other societies. I have to make a deliberate effort to make sure I'm assessing individual Muslims objectively. That effort almost always results in me finding that person reasonable. It's just that the bad ones loom large...just like they do for any demographic.

Lately, of course, my contact with Muslims is almost exclusively* with Indonesians and Malaysians. And Japan is decidedly not a friendly place for foreign religious radicals of any kind...

* And there's the Turkish guy who runs a nearby kebab place. He's been here a long time (his Japanese is terrific...very near native-level). Friendly guy once you've been back a couple-three times...and the food's likely to make that happen!

Under brutal torture, the English language suffers defeat.

Posted by Magog on March 24, 2025, 3:05 pm, in reply to "should non-citizens, of any country, be allowed to protest against others, in their own?"

go back to the shadows then...

Posted by scott on March 24, 2025, 3:45 pm, in reply to "Under brutal torture, the English language suffers defeat."

the fire from above is lethal....

If you can't laugh at your own shortcomings, llittle fella, you're

Posted by Magog on March 24, 2025, 4:50 pm, in reply to "go back to the shadows then..."

too puny a pissant to bother with.

Trolling for conflict, again. Take your harassing ankle bites elsewhere.

Posted by Mondo Fuego™ on March 24, 2025, 6:13 pm, in reply to "If you can't laugh at your own shortcomings, llittle fella, you're"

Tu es personum non gratum, matris abutens.

I could have been kinder, but little Scott needn't call on his God for vengeance.

Posted by Magog on March 25, 2025, 7:20 am, in reply to "Trolling for conflict, again. Take your harassing ankle bites elsewhere."

He could have joined in laughing at his fumbling sentence structure. Not that it's any of your business.

I didn't call for it.. that's already a given in scripture..

Posted by scott on March 25, 2025, 8:50 am, in reply to "I could have been kinder, but little Scott needn't call on his God for vengeance."

Just making sure you knew it... and I guess you have no fear of God so, good luck with that.

Which would render your response totally dissociative

Posted by Magog on March 26, 2025, 8:04 am, in reply to "I didn't call for it.. that's already a given in scripture.."

Where does heavenly retribution fit into the subject of
poor sentence structure?

you did know that medicare can cover your therapy needs...

Posted by scott on March 26, 2025, 9:21 am, in reply to "Which would render your response totally dissociative"

You are one sick puppy.

Posted by Mugwump on March 26, 2025, 12:08 pm, in reply to "you did know that medicare can cover your therapy needs... "

1, you're the one obsessed with one subject that you force into any thread you can.
2. You don't recognize your own OCD.
3. You're a superannuated nothing who loves to preach even though unqualified.
4. I don't live in the U.S. though I am a citizen, which status
should change by this time next year, so Medicare for which I would be eligible two decades from now, is not an issue.
So take your obnoxious nature and need to prove how pious you are compared to everyone else (and never, never wrong,it would appear) and drop effing dead, thereby doing most of the same world a great favor.

Butt out, fella.

Posted by Magog on March 27, 2025, 8:21 am, in reply to "You are one sick puppy."

I agree, but MYOB.

I don't change my handle to poke shots at people

Posted by scott on March 26, 2025, 12:30 pm, in reply to "You are one sick puppy."

magog,sjw,mugwump..and who knows what other handle you use...Jesus still loves you.. it's His obsession with you that matters...any ocd I may have, per your hateful and wrong diagnosis, is strictly generated fiction.

But there still is therapy even for your age group.. when you get back from wherever.. as even medicare has its regional limitations.

And that's also qualified advice, like my so called "preaching".

Probably best you stay off my threads if I bother you so much, or employ that favorite crutch the DNR. Just email Ken and be done with it all.

In general, I agree; with some possible exceptions.

Posted by DFM on March 24, 2025, 2:19 pm, in reply to "should non-citizens, of any country, be allowed to protest against others, in their own?"

who?

Posted by scott on March 24, 2025, 3:28 pm, in reply to "In general, I agree; with some possible exceptions."

REAL Legitimate Refugees Who Cannot Protest at Home.

Posted by DFM on March 24, 2025, 8:27 pm, in reply to "who?"

define "legitimate"... does that mean they have to agree with you?

Posted by scott on March 25, 2025, 8:54 am, in reply to "REAL Legitimate Refugees Who Cannot Protest at Home."

I don't. On the one most single important question of humanity there is, we totally differ.

But that's off topic for this thread. Or is it?

Why don't we quit giving choice education opportunities to foreigners?

Posted by Mondo Fuego™ on March 24, 2025, 12:55 pm, in reply to "should non-citizens, of any country, be allowed to protest against others, in their own?"

Give them to Americans who will stay here and use their education to the benefit of America and Americans.

A huge part of the $36 Trillion in debt was giveaways to other nations when they should have been hard-to-get loan that required repayment.

And, what's with $400 million to Columbia? The alumni/ae should be paying this, not the taxpayers. Ya know, they got an Ivy education, they can damn well fork over the fruits of their superior education. I feel the same way about my AM, Vandy. Let the alumni/ae pay.

Congress has been a drunken sailor for decades.

what if they pay for it personally?

Posted by Trish on March 25, 2025, 9:04 am, in reply to "Why don't we quit giving choice education opportunities to foreigners?"

There are people from other countries with far superior knowledge in certain subjects who could fill-out their knowledge and perhaps go to work in those fields provided there isn't a citizen who can do as well.

Not if they are going back to a country that works against us.

Posted by Mondo Fuego™ on March 26, 2025, 1:13 pm, in reply to "what if they pay for it personally?"

For example, a NoKo citizen wanting to study nuclear physics at MIT.

In any case, priority would always be given to US citizen with applicable academic and other achievements.

body snatchers invasion....but it seems mixed results

Posted by scott on March 24, 2025, 3:38 pm, in reply to "Why don't we quit giving choice education opportunities to foreigners?"

https://www.pewresearch.org/global-migration-and-demography/2018/05/10/number-of-foreign-college-students-staying-and-working-in-u-s-after-graduation-surges/

Sadly this piece appears to be dated... but

Number of Foreign College Students Staying and Working in U.S. After Graduation Surges
Federal training program sees 400% increase in foreign students graduating and working in STEM fields from 2008 to 2016

Between 2004 and 2016, nearly 1.5 million foreign graduates of U.S. colleges and universities obtained authorization to remain and work in the U.S. through the federal government’s Optional Practical Training program (OPT). More than half (53%) of the foreign graduates approved for employment specialized in science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM) fields, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) data received through a Freedom of Information Act request.1

Many foreign STEM graduates enrolled with OPT after executive actions in 2008 and 2016 initially doubled (29 months), then later tripled (36 months), the maximum length of employment for foreign students with STEM degrees. The number of foreign STEM graduates participating in OPT grew by 400% since the first employment extension was introduced in 2008.

OPT is one mechanism by which the U.S. can compete with other countries for top talent. It is less well-known than the H-1B visa program – which enables U.S. companies to hire highly skilled foreign workers and is the nation’s largest temporary employment visa program – yet OPT approvals actually outnumbered initial H-1B visa approvals in recent years.2 In addition, OPT’s eligible population has been on the rise: Between 2008 and 2016, new college enrollments among foreign students on F-1 visas grew 104%.

Foreign students obtaining authorization to remain and work in the U.S. after graduation come from all corners of the globe, but the majority of them hold citizenship in Asia. Students from India, China and South Korea made up 57% of all OPT participants between 2004 and 2016.

Although the data referenced in this report cover F-1 visa holders approved for OPT participation between 2004 and 2016, only those who pursued degrees in higher education (associate, bachelor’s, master’s or doctorate) are included in the analysis.

This data made it possible to map where foreign college graduates came from and where they were going – both for their education and their OPT employment. Major metro areas in the U.S. tend to attract large numbers of foreign students and also keep a significant share as OPT enrollees. By contrast, smaller-sized metro areas often see local foreign graduates relocate elsewhere as part of OPT employment.

(see the site itself for additional charts and info)

https://monitor.icef.com/2022/03/most-international-students-in-the-us-want-to-stay-after-graduation-but-worry-about-getting-a-job/

(more info)

Re: Why don't we quit giving choice education opportunities to foreigners?

Posted by Gustavo on March 24, 2025, 1:24 pm, in reply to "Why don't we quit giving choice education opportunities to foreigners?"

I see you drank the Elon Musk koolaide.

Trolling for conflict again? How pathetic. This will stop ... today.

Posted by Mondo Fuego™ on March 24, 2025, 6:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Why don't we quit giving choice education opportunities to foreigners?"

If you come over here just to harass me, I will cut you off at the knees with a swift DNR.

I banned you permanently on my board because of the vulgarity you posted about my wife, and you never apologized. Ken also banned you for a while for the same outrageous offense. People like you don't learn.

SCRAM!

there's nothing wrong with Elon Musk.. most of his kind

Posted by scott on March 24, 2025, 3:43 pm, in reply to "Re: Why don't we quit giving choice education opportunities to foreigners?"

generally care little about people..just what they do to the world.. he cares what and how they could be helped.

It's called vision. The "Kool-aid" response is the negative response to accepting change...

Like yourself....one can help or hinder progress... and I've yet to see his concepts be wrong.

Could not agree more.

Posted by GOG on March 24, 2025, 9:58 am, in reply to "should non-citizens, of any country, be allowed to protest against others, in their own?"

You are absolutely right scott

Posted by Gustavo on March 24, 2025, 7:34 am, in reply to "should non-citizens, of any country, be allowed to protest against others, in their own?"

Constitutional Rights only apply to US citizens.

If I was running the show, last year at Columbia College in NYC there would have been no encampment allowed.

Any student that was attending on a Student Visa who was protesting would have been rounded up and deported.

in this context..

Posted by scxott on March 24, 2025, 3:51 pm, in reply to "You are absolutely right scott"

Elon is an acceptable citizen.

If you're illegal however...bye bye...

If you are a legal visa student getting an education here...get it..then go home... wasn't that why you came, to improve your own country's lot?

If you want to stay..make the right applications..do the process..get accepted.. become a citizen...then whine all you want..however..in all those years it took you to get it all done..someone would have a pretty good handle on your motives.

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