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Who's making money?

Posted by Parent on July 27, 2025, 9:13 am

Locally, our two "best" program leaders are in the red or at least net zero, but who's actually making money off the sport? The franchise guys, instructors, tournament directors, etc., maybe, but I don't see a lot of big money in the sport. I'm guessing that Thunderbolts coach (Rocky), Lady Dukes, etc., are making a bit.

Re: Who's making money?

Posted by I have the files... on July 28, 2025, 12:38 pm, in reply to "Who's making money?"

Used Perplexity to search for club financial information, searching tax, corporate and court records. Summary results of what it found:

Beverly Bandits - 501(c)3 foundation
2024 Revenue: $599,782
2023 Revenue: $451,454
2022 Revenue: $474,230

Birmingham. Thunderbolts - private foundation
2024 Revenue: $1,147,806
2023 Revenue: $627,837
2022 Revenue: $391,751

It's possible that not all revenue and expenses run through these foundations, but probably the bulk.

Re: Who's making money?

Posted by @I have on July 28, 2025, 1:34 pm, in reply to "Re: Who's making money?"

Revenue is typically a gross amount. What are the expenses incurred?

Re: Who's making money?

Posted by @@I have on July 28, 2025, 2:20 pm, in reply to "Re: Who's making money?"

990 tax returns for each are available on the IRS website. Summary:

Bandits (2023 is most recent year)
Total revenue: $451,454
Total expenses/disbursements: $540,591

Selected components:
- Compensation of officers & directors: $0
- Travel: $30,174
- Umpires: $13,220
- Equipment: $53,870
- Tournaments: $441,979

Thunderbolts (2022 is most recent year)
Total revenue: $624,548
Total expenses/disbursements: $762,833

Selected components:
- Compensation of directors & officers: 0
- "Highly Paid Employees": 74,575
- Travel: $359,522
- Training fees: $26,030
- Team expenses: $115,050

So, in these two organizations, in these two years, both lost money. Now, it's possible that those involved have other revenue streams going directly to them (e.g., private coaching, consulting, etc.) or indirect relationships that benefit the org and players (e.g., fees paid to facilities that are directly from the athletes and not to the org), but I think there is enough information to suggest that it's quite likely that travel softball is not the money grab that some like to think it is...

Re: Who's making money?

Posted by Let's not forget on July 28, 2025, 12:16 pm, in reply to "Who's making money?"

Let's not forget the facilities we play the games at lol. Gate fees or parking fees. $$$$

Re: Who's making money?

Posted by The Dreamer on July 28, 2025, 5:52 am, in reply to "Who's making money?"

I know of one well known organization where the coaches make bank giving private hitting lessons to their players.The guy who runs the organization has ruined so many girls over the years with his theories and methods. Finally, that same org has kept poor players on the team because they pay for private lessons.
The results? They have fallen hard in trying to field competitive teams as demonstrated by their team’s losing records.

Re: Who's making money?

Posted by Dreaming on July 29, 2025, 12:17 am, in reply to "Re: Who's making money?"

Lets dive deeper into this.

Lets say the organization is nonprofit and the facility is for profit? How can the profit side benefit through the nonprofit side?

You keep the athletes for numbers, the more team the more profit in the end. You market you lessons to your organization giving "a discounted rate".
You get parent coaches so you do not have to pay make them feel that they are appreciated as the numbers roll in.
This is only the beginning. Bottom line it is a money making machine!

Re: Who's making money?

Posted by Schedule L on August 1, 2025, 12:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Who's making money?"

If you look up an organization 990 they are required to state related party transactions on Schedule L. Worth checking out. One local organization who will remain anonymous is transfering 37% of all revenue to the two individuals running the org, who also own a for profit softball business.

Re: Who's making money?

Posted by Show me the money on August 1, 2025, 5:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Who's making money?"

I wonder if this is the same for profit that raffles off 2 Ghost each month making over $3,700.00 profit off each bat? A head coach's kid always wins the bat. It really waxes me how people cannot see how places find ways to make an extra 30--40 K off the books...Show me the money...It's all about the girls...

Re: Who's making money?

Posted by @Schedule L on August 1, 2025, 5:21 pm, in reply to "Re: Who's making money?"

Why would one "anonymous" organization post something like this out of the blue? There are many way around every thing, it is smoke and mirrors. Maybe funneling money through the "Church?" There is alot of money to be made, especially when you "Love Money."

Re: Who's making money?

Posted by Isn't this still America? on July 29, 2025, 8:17 am, in reply to "Re: Who's making money?"

What is it that we expect from those who are offering the club softball product - orgs, facilities, coaches, tournaments, etc.?

Should they not make any money? Should they only make a modest living? What is an appropriate level of income for those groups? What is too much?

Seems like a lot of whining and conspiracy thinking on this topic. If you think club softball is a high margin business, you're nuts. If you think you can offer a better product at a lower price, go ahead and start your own organization!

Re: Who's making money?

Posted by Ding ding ding on July 29, 2025, 7:26 am, in reply to "Re: Who's making money?"

Now here is someone who gets it. Use the organizations facility, training spaces, marketing , promote your lessons and toss the organization a few dollars for using their space and roll in the next group of suckers each year and retain a few whom one day wake up and bail. All you have to do is look at all the programs whom have no older programs to speak of.

There are a few organizations being run just like this and the folks in charge are absolutely making money. As for the real travel programs, bandits etc, I believe Conroy has time after time said he loses money which I would agree most higher levels are. It’s the lower programs where you really need to follow the money!!

Re: Who's making money?

Posted by @The Dreamer on July 28, 2025, 6:57 am, in reply to "Re: Who's making money?"

What’s bank? If they’re so bad why do parents choose them? Is always someone else when the kid doesn’t improve.

Re: Who's making money?

Posted by Do not forget this trick on July 29, 2025, 12:25 am, in reply to "Re: Who's making money?"

Make sure you use Church fields! Makes it seem like this is a religious organization.

Re: Who's making money?

Posted by Church fields on July 29, 2025, 2:08 pm, in reply to "Re: Who's making money?"

And be sure to require the parents to fix up and maintain the fields for free while renting them out for tournaments. Remember they won't just make your daughter a better player, they will make her a better person!

Re: Who's making money?

Posted by GRDS on July 30, 2025, 4:42 pm, in reply to "Re: Who's making money?"

Half the country has TDS and you have GRDS. Get over it, move on, they've already forgotten you and your little muffin.

Re: Who's making money?

Posted by Money on July 29, 2025, 9:05 am, in reply to "Re: Who's making money?"

Money, get away
You get a good job with more pay and you're OK
Money, it's a gas
Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash
New car, caviar, four-star daydream
Think I'll buy me a football team
Money, get back
I'm alright, Jack, keep your hands off of my stack
Money, it's a hit

Remember if they are not making money then why are they doing it?

Re: Who's making money?

Posted by @roger waters on July 30, 2025, 10:27 pm, in reply to "Re: Who's making money?"

It's not about the money, money, money
We don't need your money, money, money
We just wanna make the world dance
Forget about the price tag
Ain't about the, uh, cha-ching, cha-ching
Ain't about the, yeah, ba-bling, ba-bling
Wanna make the world dance
Forget about the price tag

Re: Who's making money?

Posted by Money math on July 28, 2025, 7:30 am, in reply to "Re: Who's making money?"

If you’re charging $100 an hour ($50 a half hour) for lessons and working 5 PM to 10 PM every night of the week for 50 weeks a year… you’ll gross $175,00.

How many private coaches book that much business? Almost none.

Private lessons are a nice side hustle or secondary household income for most - and far from easy work. Plus, no benefits.

Far from being money grabbers, most coaches and even org owners are doing this work out of a love for the game and the kids. For the amount of work they put in and headaches they have to deal with, God bless any of ‘em that can put together meaningful income streams.

Re: Who's making money?

Posted by Great question on July 27, 2025, 10:13 am, in reply to "Who's making money?"

I’d love to be able to answer this question.

The club universe is full of theories (often conspiratorial) about the motives and economics of travel softball.

I have zero optics into this world… but I find it really hard to believe that the profits/margins are that high. I’m not saying there aren’t money motivations, but I don’t think any of our midwestern programs are banking a $1M a year in profit.

This seems like a passion for those involved, rationally and irrationally.

There have been some good articles recently (WSJ) about how private equity is moving into youth sports. Seems like they will target facilities and tournaments first… and that’s where I bet we’ll see the costs go up in the years ahead.

Re: Who's making money?

Posted by @great Question on July 27, 2025, 2:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Who's making money?"

I could see private equity getting into facility development, and if you control the facility, the tournaments are pretty easy to put together.

Re: Who's making money?

Posted by @Parent on July 27, 2025, 9:27 am, in reply to "Who's making money?"

I think what's "money"? Are you talking side hustle or $200k plus?

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