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California and the mindsets of the California elite are hell on earth. Posted by TW on May 12, 2025, 3:05 pm Valued Poster In my post referenced below, as of March 24, 2025, the city of Los Angeles had only issued 4 building permits. Now they've listed 7 as being issued at the County website. Even if that's 7 additional permits, that ridiculously low number is a travesty. This is the type of stuff you are guaranteed to get with onerous, highly controlling progressive style governments. Why some people are in love with government and are always looking for more of it is a mystery to me. My original post: https://mb.boardhost.com/CivilizedDiscussion/msg/1743101928.html The LA County web site: https://recovery.lacounty.gov/rebuilding/permitting-progress-dashboard/ Three and a Half Months Later, Los Angeles County Has Issued . . . Seven Rebuilding Permits By Jim Geraghty The wildfires that devastated Los Angeles tore through the city and county in January; the last of the fires were extinguished at the end of the month. Three and a half months have passed; last month, Los Angeles County launched a website that tracks how many rebuild permits have been issued in Pacific Palisades and Altadena following January’s fires. As of this morning, the county has issued . . . seven building permits. Seven! The county estimates that more than 12,000 parcels of land were damaged or destroyed by the wildfires. At a pace of one new building permit every two weeks, Los Angeles County will issue 26 rebuild permits per year, and have Pacific Palisades and Altadena rebuilt within 461 years. Mark your calendars for the final ribbon-cutting ceremonies for the spring of the year 2486. Earlier this month, our Audrey Fahlberg reported from Altadena about how the extraordinarily daunting task of rebuilding once-beautiful neighborhoods that now look “more like the wreckage from a nuclear blast” is exacerbated by the onerous “permitting, fireproofing, and rebuilding requirements to comply with California’s building code — such as fire-resistant roofs, solar panels, and automatic sprinklers.” In January, California Governor Gavin Newsom promised victims of the fires would “not get caught up in bureaucratic red tape” and would be able to “quickly rebuild their homes.” In March, Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass promised the neighborhoods would be rebuilt at “lightning speed.” As many of these officials’ critics suspected, those promises turned out to be absolute meaningless happy talk. https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/three-and-a-half-months-later-los-angeles-county-has-issued-seven-rebuilding-permits/

Re: California governments allowed for decades over devlopemnt in highly risky ares Posted by Christopher Blackwell on May 12, 2025, 6:11 pm, in reply to "California and the mindsets of the California elite are hell on earth." TW , The present disasters were a result of decades of thoughtless development with no consideration of the risks involved, nor many building rules. This is also the reason for most of the recent problems as well, far too much population growth in far too short of time. California, with one fifth of our present population, would still be a wonderful place to live. You can see the same thing happening today in the water short areas of the South West. In a generation, millions will have not enough water and millions will have to move, as was done in the dust bowl generation. Any land, even under the best situations, has a limit to how big a population it can support. In our ever going growth mania, we have chosen to ignore logical limits to growth. Hence, we continue to create ever worse disasters for our future, such as the sinking coastal towns and cities which we should be building back away from our present coastline and rising seas. The sinking of coast land on both the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans is what we still tend to ignore in ever-growing coastal flooding problem. ChristopherBlackwell

Do you suppose that MAYBE they were built in a path that frequently sees major wildfires? Posted by Sia on May 12, 2025, 3:58 pm, in reply to "California and the mindsets of the California elite are hell on earth." ADMIN Given that entire towns were wiped out, is it unreasonable to expect fireproof roofs, solar panels, and sprinkler systems? After all, one MAJOR factor in wildfires is electrical grids and wires in highly flammable areas. That said, only 7 permits SEEMS absurd. I'd like to know more of WHY only 7 permits have been issued? Have insurance companies paid out claims? Are they refusing to re-insure homes in those places? Have many of those former homeowners left the state? Were many houses under-insured? There's usually so much more to every story than the headlines.

From a lot of what I've read, the fires and inability to fight them were due Posted by TW on May 12, 2025, 4:01 pm, in reply to "Do you suppose that MAYBE they were built in a path that frequently sees major wildfires?" Valued Poster to irresponsible and inept government. You are right that there may be more to the story. The 7 permits is prime evidence that there's plenty of government failure afoot.

You know NOTHING about California plants and climate Posted by Pikes Peak 14115 on May 13, 2025, 3:13 pm, in reply to "From a lot of what I've read, the fires and inability to fight them were due" ADMIN I posted about this before. In one ear and out the rear? California plant life evolved to survive massive periodic and cyclic fires. Almost all California plants, from poppies to sequoias adapted to occasional and periodic massive fires. Many have reproductive cycles that will only kick into play AFTER a fire. California fires occurred before man either lived in the state, or developed it. The California government is developing new policy to both live with and mitigate wildfire, whether natural or human caused... which REPUBLICANS don't like. Devin Nunez is somewhere hidden deep in the felon trump administration. Californians are glad he relocated, since as a rep he had the backs of the developers who IGNORED geography of perennial California wildfires in exchange for massive profits from equally massive housing cost inflation. You can look away from a painting, but you can't listen away from a symphony

It just MAY be.... Posted by Skye on May 14, 2025, 11:14 am, in reply to "You know NOTHING about California plants and climate" Valued Poster that many of these people DO NOT WANT to rebuild there... or that they were not insured and thus NOT ABLE to rebuild, or WILL NOT be insured if they choose to rebuild there??? Insurance companies typically do not like to insure something that is a bad risk. When we lived near the gulf coast many years ago, we were told that we would only get "one hurricane" covered by the insurance company. Then we would be on our own if we wanted to rebuild there. What sense does it make to rebuild with increasing risks due to climate change, lack of insurance, outdated codes and materials, just asking for the same disaster over and over again? About as much sense as pretending that climate change is not real...?

Good points! CA fires have gotten so bad that it would not be surprising if folks just left Posted by Sia on May 14, 2025, 11:52 am, in reply to "It just MAY be...." ADMIN the area.

Is that ever true in Red states? Posted by greenman on May 12, 2025, 5:08 pm, in reply to "From a lot of what I've read, the fires and inability to fight them were due" Or only in Blue ones? -greenman

I guess you'd have to find a Red State in which the circumstances were Posted by TW on May 12, 2025, 5:28 pm, in reply to "Is that ever true in Red states?" Valued Poster similar to those in California. I cannot think of any at this time.

Tornado alley Posted by Pikes Peak 14115 on May 13, 2025, 3:00 pm, in reply to "I guess you'd have to find a Red State in which the circumstances were" ADMIN How many Californians do you see, hear, and read about, complaining about people in tornado alley not only building homes in the paths of EF4 and EF5 tornadoes, but after such a storm wipes out a town, they rebuild on the exact same spot. Like California wildfires. tornadoes are annual and recur in the same general locations. Answer is almost none. California like the US has a massive debt. However it has revenue that pays the debt without causing an annual deficit from carry over of more debt than revenue. Should stimulate a great big yawning, "So what?" The stupid republicans who love to bring up the topic of debt literally don't know their asses from holes in their asses. However tax cuts deplete revenue, which causes deficit growth and carryover. The felon's tax cuts in his first term stimulated growth of the deficit to an all time record $4.5 trillion. Biden's policies reduced the deficit to about $1.2 trillion before the repeat of trump threatens to do it again. W Bush did this, and took a balanced budget that produced a surplus in 2000 which he refunded to taxpayers through the Bush rebates, and grew it to a deficit by the end of his terms to $3.2 trillion deficit. Then, the highest ever. Obama policies reduced that deficit to about $800 billion. For as much as you republicans talk about your so called knowledge and expertise with money, I am astonished about how effing illiterate most of you are on the topic. That especially includes your six time bankrupt convicted felon y'all put in charge for another effort to bankrupt the country. His, he and Musk, massive firings may have saved a few billion dollars initially by reduction of payroll. However most of those fired were specialists, and there is no talent pool from which to hire replacements. Cost of training new hires makes doge dogi. Government INEFFICIENCY. The California economy is 4th largest in the world, and it is healthy. California has a housing problem, and the chief cause is climate and greed. Republican government is too stupid to get out of its own way, and the unconstitutionality of many executive orders is mired in the courts for a period of time sufficient for the population to replace the do-nothing legislative branch with one who actually defends the US Constitution instead of doing nothing because something might make the felon and MAGA mad at them. You can look away from a painting, but you can't listen away from a symphony

Yada, yada, hate California, yada, yada yada Posted by greenman on May 12, 2025, 3:24 pm, in reply to "California and the mindsets of the California elite are hell on earth." Valued Poster So boring, really.. -greenman

Actually...I think California is a beautiful state and have always enjoyed my visits there. Posted by TW on May 12, 2025, 3:58 pm, in reply to "Yada, yada, hate California, yada, yada yada" Valued Poster I was even stationed in the Orange County area for about 5 months while in the Marine Corps. Last time I was there was in 2005 for 2 weeks. I hope to make some vacation trips there once I retire. I'd never live there though. Their government is far too screwed up. The state's various governments have worked hard to earn the hatred people have for them.

California is a mini USA.... Posted by Skye on May 13, 2025, 2:06 pm, in reply to "Actually...I think California is a beautiful state and have always enjoyed my visits there." with all the same pros and cons. On the whole it IS a beautiful state. It has a little of everything... sunny beaches, mountains, farmland, deserts, beautiful parks.... and movie stars. So yes, that makes it a desirable place to live for many. And therefore, it is an expensive place to live. It attracts people with wealth, and that drives prices up, which makes it hard for the working class to survive or get ahead. Same problem as in other resort areas in the country such as in the mountain resort areas of Colorado and Wyoming. And like some other states, it is susceptible to natural disasters, which means where you have a denser population coupled with a higher cost of living, and also prone to the forces of nature such as wildfires, floods, hurricanes, earthquakes... you will naturally have a problem when disaster strikes, such as we have seen in Florida and other places as well. People want to live on or near the beach, but they don't want to face the music when disaster strikes. Insurance companies don't want to, either, obviously. So there's your problem. The US is also a beautiful and rich country, and a nice place to live. That's why you have (or had) so many people who want to live here, and coming across the borders. But when you have too few wealthy and too many trying to scrape by and make ends meet with prices being high, something has to give. That's why California has such high taxes and housing problems. The wealthy can afford to live there, but it's not easy for those who are not wealthy. It's a love/hate relationship for many, with no easy solutions. Same for the country as a whole, as compared to other countries around us. We are a rich, beautiful country that offers freedom, opportunity, and a desirable place to live. So, yes, we have many of the same problems as California. But never fear. Trump will demolish our beautiful country to the point that fewer people will even want to come here or deal with us anymore. Maybe then you will be happy?

That wasn't my point, as I suspect you know. Posted by greenman on May 12, 2025, 4:00 pm, in reply to "Actually...I think California is a beautiful state and have always enjoyed my visits there." Valued Poster Idaho is likely a beautiful state, but full of Trump nuts and militias. You simply hate blue states, want a one-party system, and follow extremist news sources which reinforce your prejudices. -greenman

I've made the case numerous times that I support government consisting of Posted by TW on May 12, 2025, 4:06 pm, in reply to "That wasn't my point, as I suspect you know." Valued Poster both liberals and conservatives. I've often stated that I'm a Yin and a Yang kind of guy. Without a more liberal mindset, progress would move at a snail's pace. Without a conservative mindset, every harebrained idea would be funded and implemented without due consideration.

In the 27+ years I've known you, you've always been center/right Posted by Sia on May 13, 2025, 11:32 am, in reply to "I've made the case numerous times that I support government consisting of" ADMIN IOW, a moderate with little use for BIG government. Definitely a law&order kinda guy who appreciates a reasonable, centrist government that is not too overbearing in either direction.while ensuring the common good, protecting citizens from unscrupulous actors, but also business-friendly. We disagree on HOW so many things should be accomplished within government but are always respectful of the other's view and able to hear each other out.. That's my take after literally decades of knowing you.

I try to be consistent. I may sway too far at times. The goal is to be consistent and Posted by TW on May 13, 2025, 1:08 pm, in reply to "In the 27+ years I've known you, you've always been center/right" Valued Poster to modify my views with there is convincing proof otherwise. Your description of my worldview is on the mark as far as I'm concerned.

Your extremism is annoying. Posted by greenman on May 13, 2025, 2:13 pm, in reply to "I try to be consistent. I may sway too far at times. The goal is to be consistent and" Valued Poster Not content with saying ‘California didn’t handle its wildfires very well, and is slow rebuilding,’ you have to rant that it’s ’HELL on EARTH!’ It’s always the same. Until you learn to cool the partisan hating and ranting, you’ll never be taken seriously here. -greenman

The "hell on earth" comment was more than a little OTT, so that's a fair "assessment" of the "drama" Posted by Sia on May 13, 2025, 9:14 pm, in reply to "Your extremism is annoying." ADMIN regarding California's obvious flaws. They don't seem to have a "handle" on their yearly, massive wildfires. However, is it actually the CA government's fault that the state is bone dry after so many years of drought? Being right on the ocean, you'd think that they would have found SOME WAY to harness the enormous supply of salt water when fighting fires. Clearly, they can't dump excessive amounts of salt into their countryside, but can't they build some water purification plants that can remove the salt to better supply firefighters and even citizens with more water so everything doesn't get SOOOOO DRY?? There is a solution out there somewhere if only they'd put their best, scientific minds to it. That's my 2 cents worth on the topic. I fully admit that I don't know ENOUGH about it to know if my suggestions are stupid or unworkable. But I've not heard anything about them working on the issue.

I agree that more needs to be done. Posted by greenman on May 14, 2025, 9:32 am, in reply to "The "hell on earth" comment was more than a little OTT, so that's a fair "assessment" of the "drama"" Valued Poster It’s not a new problem, and we know it’s getting worse, so let’s do more to plan and prepare - including places NOT to build. It’s just that partisan noise making does nothing. The blame game (as at the border) is self-serving at best. -greenman

One of the biggest problems is the power lines Posted by Sia on May 14, 2025, 12:03 pm, in reply to "I agree that more needs to be done." ADMIN Many of the wildfires are caused by broken or downed electic wires run across the dry countryside and not well maintained. Others are illegal campfires, discarding still lit cigarettes, and other stupid actions. If they could somehow resolve the water shortage problem, then wildfires wouldn't grow as large as they do now. Controlled, preemptive burning with preplanned firestops could also help Reduce the fuel fires have to spread out of control.

OMG Posted by Skye on May 13, 2025, 9:19 am, in reply to "I've made the case numerous times that I support government consisting of" Valued Poster ... as we are witnessing the dismantling of government that was working well for the most part and replacing it with the likes of Trump&co with his/their corrupt, crazy and "conservative" ideas???? You must be joking.

Our government has been steadily declining for a long time now. Posted by TW on May 13, 2025, 1:02 pm, in reply to "OMG" Valued Poster We've got all the proof we need with the debt, deficits, and the way the government has been doling out money for flat out stupid sh*t for decades now. Say what you want about DOGE, as some of their findings have not always been 100% accurate, but they have unearthed mountains of wasteful and irresponsible government spending. Much of it flat out stupid.

He loves to pretend Posted by greenman on May 13, 2025, 10:02 am, in reply to "OMG" Valued Poster ..to be a bipartisan, pro-Constitution, fair-and-square kinda guy. Which is why it’s confusing when you read his highly biased, partisan posts…smh -greenman

I just try to represent a smidgen of the RW view on a decidely left leaning board. Posted by TW on May 13, 2025, 1:04 pm, in reply to "He loves to pretend" Valued Poster By myself, I cannot bring that much to balance this board's leftist leanings. I do try to add some material that I find to be significant though.

That’s the problem, your bipolarity. Posted by greenman on May 13, 2025, 2:16 pm, in reply to "I just try to represent a smidgen of the RW view on a decidely left leaning board." Valued Poster I see good things on the Left, and some bad things. I see fewer good things on the Right, and increasing number of bad things. You see almost nothing but evil on the Left, and little but good on the Right. That’s not ‘balanced thinking.’ -greenman

This stuff appears to be TW's substitute for Hustler Magazine. Posted by SJW on May 12, 2025, 3:45 pm, in reply to "Yada, yada, hate California, yada, yada yada" Valued Poster If you get my drift.

Were you aware of the slow motion pace of the government as far Posted by TW on May 12, 2025, 3:40 pm, in reply to "Yada, yada, hate California, yada, yada yada" Valued Poster as managing the recovery of their fire ravaged neighborhoods? Probably not. You may not even care that Californians are needlessly suffering. Where's your compassion? Knowledge is power. If utilized properly.

Where's your disingenuity? Posted by greenman on May 12, 2025, 4:02 pm, in reply to "Were you aware of the slow motion pace of the government as far" Valued Poster Oh yeah, right there in your post. As always.. -greenman

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