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Why Is There So Much Fraud in Academia? Posted by TW on May 28, 2025, 1:24 pm Valued Poster Simple! Because human beings are members of academia. Human beings are fallen creatures. I read an article about Francesca Gino in National Review titled, "Irony Alert! Tenured Harvard Prof Who Studied Honesty Fired for Falsifying Data" Subsequent investigation led to the discovery of the Freakonomics podcast that has a written transcript on the subject of why so much fraud in academia. I found it to be interesting, but not terribly surprising. https://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-is-there-so-much-fraud-in-academia/ The Harvard Crimson even had a story on it. https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2025/5/27/gino-tenure-revoked/ When there is the potential for receiving more than $1 million in compensation each year, that can be a very powerful motivator to do whatever is necessary to acquire that type of paycheck.

Isn't it strange Posted by jacque on May 30, 2025, 12:06 am, in reply to "Why Is There So Much Fraud in Academia?" Valued Poster how a capitalist economic model can create such desire for profit and notoriety, and yet other capitalists will denigrate another capitalist for gain by accusation of impropriety? SHOCKED start searching 1 billion dollars wiped by pardons https://www.google.com/search?q=1+billion+dollars+wiped+by+pardon Maybe even lookup Trump University and its current viability and financial status. However I do remember a time when fly by night Trade schools and Pseudo-collegiate accreditation was able to enroll many 'students' with Student Loans with almost every applicant. It was around the time of anybody can get an equity loan or refinance a mortgage with equity included. It began a short time before a set of famous towers collapsed. I was given the opportunity to refinance at current peak value before the housing crash. Thankfully I refinanced to consolidate my current debt and not expand it to an inflated temporary market value. When it all crashed I could still tread water but I would have drowned if I gave into the greed mentality. I won't even begin to talk about my student loan fiasco. But I will say I am currently paying and not in default. Forgiveness is almost a myth if you really look into it. Impossible under the current Administration. I was able to get partial grants to start with returning adult education for initial enrollment and I'm immensely grateful for that. It helped me to continue in my education from a certificate to accredited degree. TW do you have Degrees you paid/still pay for? Did you receive a grant for Vocational Schooling? Is there value beyond secondary schooling in your view? live long and prosper as best you can Jacque

I have a BS degree in a technical field. All but a few hundred dollars Posted by TW on May 30, 2025, 10:18 am, in reply to "Isn't it strange" Valued Poster of the cost of that degree were paid for before I graduated. If I remember correctly, that few hundred dollars were on a credit card for the books I used my last semester. How did I manage that? I had the G.I. Bill benefits from a 4-year stint in the Marines. I also worked a part-time job and worked any other jobs I could find to help keep out of debt. I also lived frugally. My start in what one might call "real job training" began my senior year of high school. I completed the first year of a 2-year vocational program my senior year in high school for air-conditioning and refrigeration. I worked in that field for about a year before I joined the Marines. The Marines gave me about a year of schooling in aircraft maintenance and electronics in order to work some of the avionics systems on F-4 Phantoms. I got out of the Marines and worked in biomedical electronics for a little over 2 years before I decided to try college. In my opinion, education is never a waste. Some of it is just more valuable from a job or career standpoint. I could have had a long and successful career in everything from my high school vocational training, the military, down through to biomedical electronics. I went to college because I had a desire to be better educated and to ultimately be more satisfied with my career. I'm 2-3 years past retirement age now. I'll probably pull the plug in the next 12 months and fade away into full geezerdom.

Good post. Posted by greenman on May 30, 2025, 11:05 am, in reply to "I have a BS degree in a technical field. All but a few hundred dollars" Valued Poster I got a BA from Ohio State (sorry, 'THE Ohio State University') in Anthropology in the '80s. I goofed around and took years to finish, but paid for it myself. My first quarter there cost $250 (I lived at home). Nobody could pay for college with a part-time job now, of course. A liberal-arts (not a political term!) degree was valuable then..it showed you had discipline, could learn, and had a wide range of knowledge. Now? Is it worth the price of a huge, long-term loan? Not in my opinion. I'd go to school and pick up a trade. And I hate to say that. -greenman

My G.I. Bill benefits allotted me $342 a month. I chose a college in which the tuition Posted by TW on May 30, 2025, 1:47 pm, in reply to "Good post." wouldn't break the bank. Tuition at SW Missouri State used to be fairly low. Being in debt was never something I enjoyed. I took an Anthropology 101 type class my first semester. The professor for that class was excellent. It was an 8:00am class and I always looked forward to it. He was a Vietnam vet that had been "in the sh#t". A great guy. Wikipedia even has a short listing of him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juris_Zarins A nice obituary with a little more history than the Wikipedia article. I came to know him personally about 6 years after I had graduated. His sudden death was a shock to all of us that knew him, as he was always as healthy as a horse. https://www.news-leader.com/obituaries/snl147765

Fascinating! Posted by greenman on May 30, 2025, 2:14 pm, in reply to "My G.I. Bill benefits allotted me $342 a month. I chose a college in which the tuition" Valued Poster I wonder if he knew one of my profs at OSU, Bill Sumner? https://news.uchicago.edu/story/william-sumner-director-emeritus-oriental-institute-1928-2011 He led the Malyan excavations in Iran until the Revolution forced Americans out. A former Navy man.. -greenman

Many people like to argue Posted by Pikes Peak 14115 on May 29, 2025, 9:19 pm, in reply to "Why Is There So Much Fraud in Academia?" If they believe they can make money, and get ahead off lies, they tell them. The current leadership and his administration are classic, textbook examples. Bad, lie telling people project their demeanor onto good truth telling people with intent to convince those unfamiliar or inexperienced "alternative facts" are truths. Fake news does the same. Trump is a dilettante more focused on petty revenge for being caught in his many blunders into stupidity. He has a substantial following of equally and similarly unaccomplished dilettante miniatures known as MAGA. You can look away from a painting, but you can't listen away from a symphony

Good grief people! The academic fraud has been going on for a long time. Posted by TW on May 29, 2025, 2:00 pm, in reply to "Why Is There So Much Fraud in Academia?" Valued Poster What I posted was just some of the latest. Trump, Biden, conservatives, and liberals do not have much in the way of correlation with the subject. Not yet at least. https://gijn.org/stories/telltale-data-signs-fraudulent-academic-research/ https://jamesgmartin.center/2023/11/why-research-fraud-is-getting-worse/ https://www.theguardian.com/science/2024/feb/03/the-situation-has-become-appalling-fake-scientific-papers-push-research-credibility-to-crisis-point https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/09/scientific-misconduct-retraction-watch https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40596-024-02021-6 https://davidson.weizmann.ac.il/en/online/firefly/dark-side-research-scientific-fraud

Banned for bringing to light academic fraud? That's pretty comical. Posted by TW on May 29, 2025, 4:32 pm, in reply to "Good grief people! The academic fraud has been going on for a long time." Valued Poster In addition to often spending vast sums of taxpayers dollars to find answers to problems that plague society, these researchers are often university professors who teach our young, who will one day be running the nation.

Academic fraud is exceedingly rare Posted by Pikes Peak 14115 on May 29, 2025, 10:39 pm, in reply to "Banned for bringing to light academic fraud? That's pretty comical." But there exists a population of dilettante Americans who suggest it is not rare, and that Academic is rampantly permeated with it. Some to much of this attitude comes from platformed individuals rejected from Academia for unremarkable unaccomplishment, but who at some point gained or more likely CONNED a sufficient population of people to believe them. Trump was rejected by Harvard. So was Barron. Because Trump has the bully pulpit of the presidency, he thinks he can attack Harvard as an equal, threatening to punish it by cancellation of federal contracts awarded to pursuit of valid scientific, medical, and legal research with interest and benefits to huge populations of people, and the general betterment and improvement of human society. He can attack it by unsupported accusations of academic fraud, which his base is all too eager to want to believe. It gives him and them immediate credibility to falsely persuade others, that a serious and significant problem exists. This kind of sh!t, and it is sh!t TW, was expanded to other Ivy League schools because in the opinion of the Executive Dilettante, "All Academia does it." He bvllsh!ts, so they all must too. Does this affect anyone YOU know? If affects somebody I know. Somebody hired by Brown to investigate a possible cure or control for Alzheimer's discovered in the chemistry of parsley. The contract that led her from Colorado to Rhode Island for that research is is direct jeopardy because of this president, and his idiot mouthpiece Robert F Kennedy Jr. who directly named the research suspect. The parsley connection doesn't surprise me. Parsley, related to hemlock, is toxic to some creatures. A whole group of black Papilionidae butterflies oviposit on parsley for the toxic properties that protects larvae and adults from predation. Repeatedly beneficial medical discoveries are made in the toxins of plants and animals, that have an almost miraculous effect when used as medicine for people. The amount of academic fraud passed onto people is exceedingly minute. By peer review most of that never sees the light of day, and it shouldn't. People like those you love to cite, write about it as if they had the expertise to know. They don't. You can look away from a painting, but you can't listen away from a symphony

I guess since I've worked in academia for over 37years, I don't have as much of a clue as you do. Posted by TW on May 30, 2025, 10:22 am, in reply to "Academic fraud is exceedingly rare" Valued Poster I guess all the stuff I've read on it is just BS too.

If you saw so much fraud over 37 years, why did you stay with it? Posted by Pikes Peak 14115 on May 30, 2025, 3:13 pm, in reply to "I guess since I've worked in academia for over 37years, I don't have as much of a clue as you do." ADMIN Were you a part of the institution, or the application? The institution of Academia where research and education occurs, or the application afterwards where lucrative capital pursuits make criminality become best or common practice corporate policy? Those people appear to have a common vested dislike of "democrats" and their policies of regulation aimed at making corporate criminality more expensive and difficult. Did you fight it? How? I fought fraud in the administration of education, and lost. If you include that as part of Academia, then I would concede rampant fraud. I see them as separate. They are administration of Academia, and more often than not their application and implementation causes significant demotivation and attrition of the hands on and boots on the ground lofty altruism and truth Academia exists to discover, create, and distribute for the betterment of society. When shortages of administration occur, hiring parties turn to corporate America for recruits, to run Academia in the efficient manner corporate business is run. Clearly I touched a nerve. In fact I am jumping up and down on it, on purpose. You can look away from a painting, but you can't listen away from a symphony

Or, perhaps, you're personally drawn to associate with a den of thieves. Posted by SJW on May 30, 2025, 10:31 am, in reply to "I guess since I've worked in academia for over 37years, I don't have as much of a clue as you do." Valued Poster There's a strong psychological basis for that possibility.

I associate with people of many disciplines. Primarily the natural science disciplines. Posted by TW on May 30, 2025, 10:40 am, in reply to "Or, perhaps, you're personally drawn to associate with a den of thieves." Valued Poster Is it your opinion that those people are a "den of thieves"?

I thought you were talking about what amount to subgroups. Posted by SJW on May 30, 2025, 10:45 am, in reply to "I associate with people of many disciplines. Primarily the natural science disciplines." These small collections of individuals could be in almost any field and those drawn to them can surely find them. One could add that they're far more likely to be found in the Sciences than in the Arts.

Yup! Far more likely in the natural sciences than the liberal arts. Posted by TW on May 30, 2025, 1:56 pm, in reply to "I thought you were talking about what amount to subgroups." Valued Poster I have numerous friends in both areas. I associate most regularly with the natural sciences types. Which, in this place, have some very progressive liberal-minded individuals. Those types mostly hail from the West Coast. A couple of them that I can think of are from the Washington State area. I am friends with and have an excellent working relationship with all of them too. I tend to get along well with everyone. It makes life so much simpler.

i hope she can continue her investigation Posted by Trish on May 30, 2025, 9:54 am, in reply to "Academic fraud is exceedingly rare" Admin my mother was plagued by this disease, and any positive steps are a tiny miracle (of sorts)

Is that an accurate statement of the situation? Posted by greenman on May 29, 2025, 5:19 pm, in reply to "Banned for bringing to light academic fraud? That's pretty comical." Valued Poster Or are you just attacking higher education because Trump is? See, that's the problem I have with you. Everything seems prompted. -greenman

I believe in an area where the fraud should be truly rare, it is not all that rare. Posted by TW on May 30, 2025, 10:37 am, in reply to "Is that an accurate statement of the situation?" Valued Poster What I have witnessed over nearly 4 decades is that the virtues formerly associated with a college education and the pursuit of knowledge have been heavily watered down. A college degree seemingly has become not much more than the pursuit of enough education to acquire a decent paycheck. And that's only if you choose the right academic discipline. College educated people, generally speaking, used to be a cut above Joe Sixpack in the areas of understanding, cultural sophistication, and a sense of morality. How the world works and how it should work. What we should strive for. I don't state this to be demeaning to Joe Sixpack. More education is supposed to make you more knowledgeable, more worldly, and better able to understand and navigate life. To have more leadership qualities and to be more of a leader and example setter in the grand scheme of things. I think that is no longer near as true as it should be.

Agreed. Posted by greenman on May 30, 2025, 11:11 am, in reply to "I believe in an area where the fraud should be truly rare, it is not all that rare." Valued Poster I was hearing, a few years ago, about an increase in fraud in scientific papers, which often had to do with grants and corporate and government money. IMO money corrupts everything it touches, especially big money. If there's millions (or billions) in an area of research, then papers will be written and gambles will be taken. That's the greeed which Capitalism is based on, and which corrupts everything around it. We rarely see that in Anthropology, happily, since no one is handing us $500 million to uncover a newly-discovered Mayan city, let's say... -greenman

NTR Posted by greenman on May 29, 2025, 2:15 pm, in reply to "Good grief people! The academic fraud has been going on for a long time." Valued Poster You really ought to be banned here. -greenman

I disagree. Posted by Sia on May 29, 2025, 6:23 pm, in reply to "NTR" ADMIN

You think he's serious? Posted by greenman on May 29, 2025, 6:59 pm, in reply to "I disagree. " Valued Poster Every post is political, and all are right wing. Many are disingenuous in the extreme. I just don't take this as a desire to 'debate' anything. -greenman

Why is there so much MORE Fraud, Waste and Abuse... Posted by Skye on May 28, 2025, 5:14 pm, in reply to "Why Is There So Much Fraud in Academia?" Valued Poster in the Trump Admin than anywhere else they are trying to find it? Oh right... because that is what he does... projects his own crimes and abuses onto others, when he is FAR more guilty of far worse than those he accuses. And it seems to work with people like you... to help him get away with his crimes. Next he will probably blame it all on his "trophy wife" if/when the truth and law catches up with him. He was only trying to please her....

You can be sure that, however much he pretends to disdain Trump Posted by greenman on May 28, 2025, 5:46 pm, in reply to "Why is there so much MORE Fraud, Waste and Abuse... " Valued Poster ..TW will not call for his removal, or object to his Residency in any very serious way. -greenman

The saddest part… Posted by Skye on May 29, 2025, 6:35 am, in reply to "You can be sure that, however much he pretends to disdain Trump" Valued Poster is that people like him, who see themselves as ‘conservatives’, seem to be content with watching the country and the rule of law burn to the ground, as long as those pesky ‘libs’ are properly punished or ‘owned.’

There is certainly SOME, I don't think there's an ENORMOUS amount though. Posted by Sia on May 28, 2025, 3:49 pm, in reply to "Why Is There So Much Fraud in Academia?" ADMIN I DO know of professors who pass off B.S., half-arsed, severely flawed data as legitimate just to get published. Partly for the praise and honors, but also because so many universities DEMAND that their professors be frequently published to bring in more students.

There is fraud. Yes, it exists. Posted by greenman on May 29, 2025, 2:21 pm, in reply to "There is certainly SOME, I don't think there's an ENORMOUS amount though." Valued Poster His 'arguments,' though, would be more convincing if: He weren't a congenital right-wing partisan troll, and he didn't connect 'fraud ' with 'left-wing universities' and post it in a way that connects with Trump's anti-academia timeline. Where was this five years ago, when fraud also existed? Where is the criticism of the Trump regime? Where is the criticism of bad behavior on the Right? Those are some of my problems with this poster.. -greenman

And I stated it has been going on for a long time. Posted by TW on May 29, 2025, 4:33 pm, in reply to "There is fraud. Yes, it exists." Valued Poster I also stated it was not necessarily tied to politicians or political views.

See above. Posted by greenman on May 29, 2025, 5:20 pm, in reply to "And I stated it has been going on for a long time." Valued Poster -greenman

Strawman Posted by greenman on May 28, 2025, 3:12 pm, in reply to "Why Is There So Much Fraud in Academia?" Valued Poster You assume an unproven fact, then argue the 'reasons' for this fake event. Academia has its problems, before you start blaming me for them, but this is just more right-wing target practice. Don't you have anything better to do? -greenman

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