Religion and Ethics BBS

Religion and Ethics BBS
[ Religion and Ethics BBS ]

Not much has changed over the last 50 or so years

Posted by scott on June 13, 2025, 9:44 am

The Great American Novel by Larry Norman

I was born and raised an orphan in a land that once was free
In a land that poured its love out on the moon;
And I grew up in the shadows of your silos filled with grain,
But you never helped to fill my empty spoon.

And when I was ten you murdered law with courtroom politics,
And you learned to make a lie sound just like truth;
But I know you better now and I don't fall for all your tricks,
And you've lost the one advantage of my youth.

You kill a black man at midnight just for talking to your daughter,
Then you make his wife your mistress and you leave her without water;
And the sheet you wear upon your face is the sheet your children sleep on,
At every meal you say a prayer; you don't believe but still you keep on.

And your money says in God we trust,
But it's against the law to pray in school;
You say we beat the Russians to the moon,
And I say you starved your children to do it.

You are far across the ocean but the war is not your own,
And while you're winning theirs, you're gonna lose the one at home;
Do you really think the only way to bring about the peace
Is to sacrifice your children and kill all your enemies?

The politicians all make speeches while the news men all take note,
And they exaggerate the issues as they shove them down our throats;
Is it really up to them whether this country sinks or floats?
Well I wonder who would lead us if none of us would vote.

Well my phone is tapped and my lips are chapped from whispering through the fence,
You know every move I make, or is that just coincidence?
Well you try to make my way of life a little less like jail,
If I promise to make tapes and slides and send them through the mail.

And your money says in God we trust,
But it's against the law to pray in school;
You say we beat the Russians to the moon,
And I say you starved your children to do it.
You say all men are equal, all men are brothers,
Then why are the rich more equal than others?
Don't ask me for the answer, I've only got one:
That a man leaves his darkness when he follows the Son

Wrong. Just one example: cars

Posted by DFM on June 23, 2025, 10:40 am, in reply to "Not much has changed over the last 50 or so years"

exhaust pollution reduced 95%
death rate down to less than one death per million vehicle miles
anti-skid braking
traction control
tire mileage greatly improved, roughly doubled
fuel economy more than doubled
rusting greatly reduced
air bags
crumple zones and advanced materials to absorb impact and protect occupants in crashes
sealed batteries
average fuel economy in 1975 was around 13 mpg, it has risen to approximately 26 mpg

Posted by Dancing Digits on June 23, 2025, 1:06 pm, in reply to "Wrong. Just one example: cars"

I didn't know the fatality rate was that low. I found this:

"There were 1,820 fewer people killed in motor vehicle traffic crashes on U.S. roads during 2023, a 4.3% decrease from 42,721 in 2022 to 40,901 in 2023. It represents the second year-to-year decrease since 2021. The fatality rate per 100 million vehicle miles traveled decreased by 6% from 1.34 in 2022 to 1.26 in 2023."

https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/nhtsa-2023-traffic-fatalities-2024-estimates

I didn't expect that stat. On occasion, I still drive into the city and the way the nuts drive there, I would expect the rate to be way higher.

"Preliminary data reported by the Federal Highway Administration
(FHWA) shows that vehicle miles traveled (VMT) in 2024 increased by about 32.3 billion miles, or about a 1.0-
percent increase. Also shown in Table 1 are the fatality rates per 100 million VMT, by quarter. The fatality rate
for 2024 decreased to 1.20 fatalities per 100 million VMT, down from the reported rate of 1.26 fatalities per 100
million VMT in 2023."

https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/813710

the-mirror-is-your-best-proof

Posted by scott on June 23, 2025, 12:46 pm, in reply to "Wrong. Just one example: cars"

Jesus
lived
died
rose
again
for
redemption
of
sinners.

All
have
sinned
and
fall
short.

Technology has improved, but human nature seems almost the same.

Posted by Ken C on June 23, 2025, 11:49 am, in reply to "Wrong. Just one example: cars"

We still have wars, crime, and hostility.

We have less racial discrimination, but the internet allows us all to insult and argue with people who we don't know.

Now with the internet we can insult people without worrying about them punching us for being jerks.

Re: Technology has improved, but human nature seems almost the same.

Posted by Dancing Digits on June 23, 2025, 1:13 pm, in reply to "Technology has improved, but human nature seems almost the same."

"without worrying about them punching us for being jerks."

Which is why it happens. People hide behind their screens, ignoring the fact that there is a living, feeling human being they are insulting.

Maybe its one of the many problems of war - we can fly over an area, drop ordinance, and fly away without even seeing the faces of those we kill. We can shoot off missiles from far away.

We sanitized the horrors of war, removed ourselves from its ugliness because we can now kill from a distance. If world leaders had to stay on front lines, on the ground with the troops, I imagine a lot of the violence would come to an end.

But we don't live in that world.

nailed-it

Posted by scott on June 23, 2025, 1:01 pm, in reply to "Technology has improved, but human nature seems almost the same."

I was just thinking the same.

Posted by GOG on June 23, 2025, 9:08 am, in reply to "Not much has changed over the last 50 or so years"

Same ol BS promulgated by the Neocons and Zionists that was connived when the US went into Iraq. Suckered once again.

I had a nice life in 1975.

Posted by Mondo Fuego™ on June 21, 2025, 2:23 pm, in reply to "Not much has changed over the last 50 or so years"

Few improvements to life have come since.

Internet has brought as many or more problems than benefits.

PCs are a welcome addition.

Hardly anything else is new.

we listened, at attention to the Red Skelton tape

Posted by scott on June 14, 2025, 7:44 am, in reply to "Not much has changed over the last 50 or so years"

?si=YE8-QgXLn9KJ0gzv

Looking at the protests nationwide I recalled this as an evolving issue over many years..but it was nothing like the violent and unruly protests today.

AI generated query:

My question: Was prayer outlawed or under attack in the 70's?

Prayer in public schools was a **highly debated issue** in the 1970s, but the legal foundation for restricting school-sponsored prayer had already been set in the **1962-63 Supreme Court decisions**. These rulings banned **organized prayer and Bible readings** in public schools, citing the **Establishment Clause** of the First Amendment, which prohibits government endorsement of religion.

While students were still **allowed to pray privately**, public schools could not **lead or mandate** prayer. The controversy continued throughout the 1970s, with **attempts to introduce constitutional amendments** that would permit voluntary prayer in schools, but none were successful. The debate was fueled by **public opinion polls**, which showed **strong support** for school prayer among certain demographics.

https://www.clrn.org/when-did-they-take-prayer-out-of-school/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_prayer_in_the_United_States

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2748643

Copilot:
Would you like to explore how this issue evolved in later decades?
The debate over school prayer continued to evolve through the **1980s, 1990s, and 2000s**, with legal challenges and cultural shifts shaping the conversation.

- **1980s:** The Supreme Court reinforced its stance against school-sponsored prayer, ruling against religious invocations at graduation ceremonies. However, **student-led prayer** became a focal point, with some arguing that banning it infringed on free speech rights.

- **1990s:** The decade saw the rise of **"See You at the Pole,"** a nationwide student-led prayer movement where students gathered at school flagpoles to pray. This was framed as **free expression** rather than school endorsement, allowing it to persist despite legal restrictions.

- **2000s:** The Supreme Court ruled against **student-led prayers at football games**, arguing that even voluntary prayers at school events could be seen as **government endorsement of religion**. However, debates continued, especially regarding **prayer by teachers and coaches** outside official school hours.

A lot of debate tactics, however, have defiantly changed.

Two things: Love Red Skeleton

Posted by Trish on June 14, 2025, 8:26 am, in reply to "we listened, at attention to the Red Skelton tape"

Second, IMO if you have a relationship with the Divine you can pray ANYWHERE without anyone being the wise.

THINK the prayer.

So much easier than all this legal prattle

Jesus may be prattle to you, and that's ok... He is your creator however

Posted by scott on June 14, 2025, 1:06 pm, in reply to "Two things: Love Red Skeleton"

.. you'll be able to, down the road on bended knee, have confess he is Lord regardless of your current position.

And that time comes to us all.

There you go again.....

Posted by Mugwump on June 17, 2025, 7:27 am, in reply to "Jesus may be prattle to you, and that's ok... He is your creator however"

Ken's offensive car salesman.

Why denigrate Ken? It's his board, not yours.

Posted by scott on June 17, 2025, 9:13 am, in reply to "There you go again....."

You also will bend your knee to Jesus, it's just a question of in gratitude or grief

You know the old saying about war, foxholes, and God.

Posted by GOG on June 23, 2025, 9:13 am, in reply to "Why denigrate Ken? It's his board, not yours."

America the Babylon is about to learn that lesson. Ship of fools. Jesus is not Savior to many, but a discomfort. Fools should be ordering from Amazon their sack cloth and ashes. Avoid the rush.

You lying SOS!. I referred to a great post from Ken

Posted by Mugwump on June 17, 2025, 10:38 am, in reply to "Why denigrate Ken? It's his board, not yours."

I don't like dealing with pushy car sales people. I wish they would stop bugging me and let me decide for myself. Last time I purchased a new car I paid for it online without dealing with any sales people. It was a refreshing change from other times I purchased a car.

I also noticed some people on the internet are too pushy with their beliefs. It's interesting to learn about religious beliefs, but it's annoying when people try to force their beliefs onto others. Is it fair to say that pushy believers/non-believers are about as annoying as pushy car salespeople?

listen hard 101...

Posted by scott on June 18, 2025, 11:05 am, in reply to "You lying SOS!. I referred to a great post from Ken"

Adding your rhetoric of cancerous lies is still a cancer.
You addressed me. Not the other way around.
And your continued lying just a little bit more is still the same as the old "101" cigarettes whose motto was just a little bit longer...your message, like that cigarette, is still cancer producing... Extending your length of nonsense doesn't make it more palatable nor better .. it's still lies and nonsense ..
100% you're off your nut to address me as if there's a shred of truth in your posts. Go bother someone else.

My, my, my, all that impotent rage....You are amusing(though rarely)

Posted by Mugwump on June 18, 2025, 1:18 pm, in reply to "listen hard 101... "

The last word 101.. just for you.

Posted by scott on June 18, 2025, 4:34 pm, in reply to "My, my, my, all that impotent rage....You are amusing(though rarely)"

https://youtube.com/shorts/nPURo0Vswr0?si=pway3akp-cX8s5YW

Oh, Zero. I didn't know you cared.

Posted by Mugwump on June 18, 2025, 6:06 pm, in reply to "The last word 101.. just for you. "

Run along now, and take your hatred with you.

And you knew damned well what that post was about.

Posted by Mugwump on June 17, 2025, 10:40 am, in reply to "You lying SOS!. I referred to a great post from Ken"

It spared us your boorishness for quite a while, but here you are at it again.

of course he did - it's his favorite tactic.

Posted by Trishj on June 17, 2025, 11:14 am, in reply to "And you knew damned well what that post was about."

First telling you that you WILL eventually bend to Jesus, which of course cannot be proven. He can believe that all he wants, but it's not a fact.

Second trying to shift the topic to avoid honest replies

elsewhere you attest you've studied the Bible extensively

Posted by scott on June 18, 2025, 11:12 am, in reply to "of course he did - it's his favorite tactic. "

Yet here you bow to a liar/ compatriot showing your lack of true convictions even having read the verse I quoted that " every knee shall bow" but here's a refresher for you and 101...
The verse that states "every knee shall bow, every tongue shall confess" is found in several places in the Bible, most notably Romans 14:11 and Philippians 2:10-11. It's also foreshadowed in Isaiah 45:23. These verses speak of a future time when all people will acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord.
Here's a breakdown:
Romans 14:11:
This verse reads, "For it is written: 'As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.'"
Philippians 2:10-11:
This passage elaborates, stating, "that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
Isaiah 45:23:
This verse is similar, with God declaring, "To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance."
These verses emphasize that ultimately, everyone will recognize and acknowledge the sovereignty of God and Jesus Christ.

Seems your attachment to 101 is your willfull desire to take his leading..even though you well know his beliefs are wrong.

It's your choice.

One can study but not comprehend, and fail miserably.

Posted by GOG on June 23, 2025, 9:20 am, in reply to "elsewhere you attest you've studied the Bible extensively "

Few can make that leap of faith. Except that the sun will rise up tomorrow, giving zero credit for the miracle of life and its Creator’s constructs. Patent thieves believing worship should be upon them and their bank accounts.

Great verse but it's a BELIEF, Scott, NOT fact

Posted by TRISH on June 19, 2025, 7:27 am, in reply to "elsewhere you attest you've studied the Bible extensively "

this is not provable. I personally don't see God the way you do. And yes, that is my choice after many years of searching.

You seem to think that studying the Bible means believing all of it. I do not.

Nor do I think someone else's beliefs wrong. Rather different. You can't get into a place of discussing the differences because you're so stuck on "my god is better than your god, and I'm always right" mode. It's a shame really.

hard-fact-we'll-all-be-judged

Posted by scott on June 19, 2025, 9:08 am, in reply to "Great verse but it's a BELIEF, Scott, NOT fact"

but-the-blood-of-Jesus-only-covers-sin

hard truth. You can't prove any of it.

Posted by trish on June 23, 2025, 11:26 am, in reply to "hard-fact-we'll-all-be-judged"

Nope.. you cannot prove. Not a fact.

Posted by Trish on June 19, 2025, 1:48 pm, in reply to "hard-fact-we'll-all-be-judged"

try as you might Scott, faith is NOT fact.

You'd be wise to learn the two words "I believe"

You are being judged now down to your atoms in nano-seconds.

Posted by GOG on June 23, 2025, 9:24 am, in reply to "Nope.. you cannot prove. Not a fact. "

You cannot escape. The universe never forgets, always knows the dismissals by those who suggest the miracle is a random accident.

I am content in knowning the Universe remembers

Posted by Trish on June 23, 2025, 4:17 pm, in reply to "You are being judged now down to your atoms in nano-seconds."

my life requires no other spiritual comfort

religion is being in a fish bowl. Spirituality is being in the whole ocean

Faith-is-a-fact-Trish

Posted by scott on June 21, 2025, 8:13 pm, in reply to "Nope.. you cannot prove. Not a fact. "

Thoughts-compiled-by-AI-for-clarity

Faith can be understood as a fact Trish, not in the sense of empirical data, but as a foundational and rational component of human knowledge and experience-which we all have, even 101.

Faith as a Fact: A Rational Foundation for Belief

In a world increasingly driven by data, algorithms, and empirical evidence, the concept of faith is often dismissed as irrational or unprovable. Yet this dismissal overlooks a profound truth: **faith is not the absence of reason—it is a fact of human existence**.
It is a cognitive, emotional, and philosophical reality that undergirds how we live, love, and make meaning. Far from being a blind leap into the dark, faith is a rational trust in what we have reason to believe is true.

Faith Is a Universal Human Experience

Every person exercises faith daily, whether religious or not. We trust that the sun will rise, that our loved ones will keep their promises, that the laws of physics will hold. These are not certainties proven anew each day—they are beliefs grounded in experience, memory, and trust. In this way, **faith is a fact of life**, woven into the fabric of our decisions and relationships.

Faith and Reason Are Not Opposites

Contrary to popular belief, faith and reason are not mutually exclusive. Theologians and philosophers from Augustine to C.S. Lewis have argued that faith is a form of knowledge—**a reasoned trust in what cannot be seen but is supported by evidence**. Hebrews 11:1 defines faith as “the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.” This is not wishful thinking; it is confidence based on testimony, history, and personal experience.

For example, the resurrection of Jesus is not merely a theological claim—it is a historical event supported by eyewitness accounts, early creeds, and the explosive growth of the early church. Believers do not accept it blindly; they trust it because the evidence points toward its truth.

Faith Is Epistemologically Valid

In philosophy, knowledge is often defined as “justified true belief.” Faith fits this model. It is a belief (doxastic state) that is justified by reason, experience, and revelation. As Jonah Haddad argues in *Faith, Fact, and Reason*, faith is not an inferior form of knowledge but an essential ingredient in the pursuit of truth. Just as sugar and flour are both necessary to bake a cake, **faith and reason together produce a fuller understanding of reality**.

Faith Anchors Moral and Existential Truths

Science can tell us how the universe works, but it cannot tell us why it matters. Faith steps in where empirical data ends—**providing meaning, purpose, and moral grounding**. Without faith in justice, love, or human dignity, societies crumble into relativism or despair. These are not provable in a laboratory, yet they are no less real. Faith in these truths is not irrational—it is essential.

Conclusion: Faith Is a Fact Worth Embracing

To say that faith is a fact is not to confuse it with empirical data, but to recognize it as a foundational reality of human life. It is a rational trust in what we have reason to believe is true, a bridge between the known and the hoped-for. Whether in religion, relationships, or reason itself, **faith is not a weakness to overcome—it is a strength to be understood**.

for-more-fact-see-link

https://www.equip.org/articles/faith-fact-and-reason/

ps 96% AI written. You can't even use your own words.

Posted by Trish on June 22, 2025, 8:40 am, in reply to "Faith-is-a-fact-Trish"

truth-still-hurts-tho

Posted by scott on June 23, 2025, 8:35 am, in reply to "ps 96% AI written. You can't even use your own words."

the-only-arguement-you-and-your-friends-can-muster-is-you-won't-believe-nor-follow-it.

Jesus
still
loves
each
and
every
one
of
us.

didn't hurt me a bit because it is a BELIEF

Posted by trish on June 23, 2025, 11:27 am, in reply to "truth-still-hurts-tho"

you do understand that the words BELIEF and FAITH do not equal the definition of fact in any way?

the-fact-is-my-belief-somehow-triggers-you

Posted by scott on June 23, 2025, 12:48 pm, in reply to "didn't hurt me a bit because it is a BELIEF"

and
I
see
Jesus
life
and
works
as
a
fact.

Good
luck
with
your
beliefs.

thanks and they don't bother me

Posted by Trish on June 23, 2025, 4:15 pm, in reply to "the-fact-is-my-belief-somehow-triggers-you"

when you lie about me bothers me

when you present faith as fact it bothers me

but hey, enjoy your lala land. I think we are done.

AI will produce whatever one wants it to --support for national socialism

Posted by Mugwump on June 22, 2025, 2:38 pm, in reply to "ps 96% AI written. You can't even use your own words."

militarism, segregation, etc.

Correction: AI (at least Gemini) won't support what it considers harmful

Posted by Mugwump on June 22, 2025, 3:05 pm, in reply to "AI will produce whatever one wants it to --support for national socialism"

That said, it was perfectly at ease producing strong support for Atheism.

you believe something

Posted by Trish on June 22, 2025, 8:38 am, in reply to "Faith-is-a-fact-Trish"

you cannot prove it

next?

Just for fun--An AI case for Atheism.

Posted by Mugwump on June 22, 2025, 2:49 pm, in reply to "you believe something"

The Case for Atheism: A Rational and Empirical Stance
Atheism, fundamentally defined as the absence of belief in deities, is often misunderstood as a dogma or a rigid system of belief. In reality, it is a position arrived at through critical inquiry, a reliance on empirical evidence, and a rejection of claims that lack substantiation. Rather than asserting the non-existence of God, atheism typically maintains that there is insufficient evidence to warrant belief in any god or gods. This essay will outline key arguments supporting an atheistic worldview, emphasizing its compatibility with reason, scientific understanding, and a humanistic ethical framework.

One of the most compelling arguments for atheism stems from the problem of evil. If an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent deity exists, why does suffering, disease, natural disasters, and moral evil persist on such a grand scale? The sheer amount of pain and injustice in the world seems irreconcilable with the traditional attributes ascribed to a benevolent God. Theodicies, attempts to reconcile God's goodness with the existence of evil, often fall short, either by limiting God's power, knowledge, or goodness, or by introducing abstract concepts like "free will" or "divine plan" that seem inadequate explanations for immense, often senseless, suffering, particularly that inflicted upon innocents. A simpler explanation is that no such deity exists to intervene or prevent these horrors.

Furthermore, the advancement of scientific understanding has progressively eroded the explanatory gaps once filled by divine intervention. Historically, phenomena like the creation of the universe, the complexity of life, and natural events such as lightning or earthquakes were attributed to gods. However, cosmology, evolutionary biology, geology, and meteorology have provided robust, evidence-based explanations for these phenomena without recourse to supernatural agents. The Big Bang theory explains the origin and evolution of the universe, while natural selection accounts for the diversity and adaptation of life. As scientific knowledge expands, the "God of the Gaps" shrinks, leaving less and less room for divine explanation. The natural world appears to operate according to predictable laws, which science diligently investigates, offering no empirical indication of supernatural interference.

The lack of empirical evidence for God's existence is another cornerstone of the atheistic position. Claims of divine beings and supernatural events are typically presented without verifiable proof. While proponents of religious belief may cite personal experiences, sacred texts, or faith as justification, these are not universally verifiable or repeatable methods of establishing truth. In all other areas of life, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The claim of a deity, one that is said to be responsible for all existence and possess unimaginable powers, is an extraordinary claim indeed. Without tangible, testable, and demonstrable evidence, the default position, from a rational standpoint, is skepticism rather than belief.

Finally, atheism is often conducive to a humanistic and autonomous ethical framework. Without the need to derive morality from divine commandments or the fear of eternal punishment, atheists can construct ethical systems based on empathy, reason, human flourishing, and the well-being of society. This approach emphasizes human responsibility for creating a just and compassionate world, rather than relying on an external authority. Morality, in this view, is a product of human social evolution, reciprocal altruism, and rational deliberation, demonstrating that ethical behavior does not depend on religious belief.

In conclusion, atheism is not merely a negation, but a coherent perspective supported by the problem of evil, the explanatory power of science, the absence of empirical evidence for deities, and the viability of a human-centered ethical system. It invites individuals to embrace intellectual honesty, to seek understanding through verifiable means, and to take ownership of their moral responsibilities. For many, the atheistic stance is not a rejection of meaning or wonder, but rather an affirmation of human potential and the beauty of a universe understood through the lens of reason and observation.

and-yet-talking-about-Jesus-still-bothers-you

Posted by scott on June 23, 2025, 8:40 am, in reply to "Just for fun--An AI case for Atheism."

Some
truths
and
realities
never
change
while
others
disregard
it
at
their
own
risk.

there
is
no
risk
all
reward
for
following
Jesus.
Following
your
path?
All
risk.

it would be hypocritical

Posted by trish on June 23, 2025, 11:29 am, in reply to "and-yet-talking-about-Jesus-still-bothers-you"

you can't force people to believe.

Hush, Benjy.

Posted by Mugwump on June 23, 2025, 8:45 am, in reply to "and-yet-talking-about-Jesus-still-bothers-you"

Your sandbox battle mentality is really childish. Take your beliefs and enjoy them since they make you happy. Too bad they also seem to make you an obnoxious pest.

lol..101...

Posted by scott on June 23, 2025, 8:54 am, in reply to "Hush, Benjy."

you
and
yours
are
welcome
to
deny
God,
at
your
own
peril.
Can't
say
you
haven't
been
warned.
Sadly
but
as
there's
still
breath
in
you
know
that
Jesus
still
loves
you,
and
wants
you
to
repent
and
turn
from
sin.

Harassing others seems to be your form of self-gratification.

Posted by Mugwump on June 23, 2025, 8:59 am, in reply to "lol..101..."

Whack away.

I-just-want-to-see-you-and-others-there

Posted by scott on June 23, 2025, 1:00 pm, in reply to "Harassing others seems to be your form of self-gratification."

Harassment is defined as a pattern of unwanted, annoying, threatening, or intimidating behavior directed at a victim, which can cause emotional distress or demean them. It often involves unwelcome contact that persists despite requests to stop. According to the Human Rights Act, harassment includes a course of vexatious comments or conduct that is known or ought reasonably to be known to be unwelcome. Additionally, it can manifest as unwanted actions that cause nuisance or alarm without any legitimate purpose.

are
you
emotionally
distressed?

being
threatened?

being
demeaned?

You're
welcome
to
ignore
my
posts
forever
far
as
I
understand.

Never
saw
you
as
some
sort
of
victim
but
perhaps
that's
how
you
unfortunately
feel.

Yep,
unfortunate.

But-in-the-songwriter's-words:
I need to say these things 'cause
I love you so
And I'm sorry you get angry when I say that
You just don't know

That there's a heaven waiting
For you and me
I know it seems every time we talk
I'm only tryin' to just make you see

And it's only that I care
I really only want
Just to see you there

Please try and overlook my
My human side
I know I'm such a bad example
And you know I'm so full of pride

But Jesus isn't like that
No He's perfect all the way
I guess that's why we need Him
'Cause by ourselves, there's just no way

And it's only that I care
I really, really only want to see you there
Just to see you there

Close the doors
They're just not comin'
We sent the invitations out long, long, long, long time ago
We're still gonna have a wedding feast
Big enough to beat them all
The greatest people in the world just wouldn't come
So now we'll just have to invite the small

And it's only that I care
I really, really only want
Just to see you there

Isn't that Jesus?
Isn't that Joseph and Mary's son?
Well, did He grow up right here?
He played with our children

What! He must be kidding
Thinks He's a prophet
Well, prophets don't grow up from little boys
Do they? From little boys?
Do they?

Songwriters: Keith Green
For non-commercial use only.

Re: I-just-want-to-see-you-and-others-there

Posted by Mugwump on June 23, 2025, 3:46 pm, in reply to "I-just-want-to-see-you-and-others-there"

See a psychiatrist. You are sick and twisted beyond belief.

Which merely proves that

Posted by Moishe on June 21, 2025, 8:36 pm, in reply to "Faith-is-a-fact-Trish"

AI can BS really well.

Most of the world believes that the sun will rise tomorrow.

Many magnitudes less believe that someone rose from the dead.

Can you say false equivalency?

heh you noticed that too

Posted by Trish on June 22, 2025, 8:42 am, in reply to "Which merely proves that"

I wonder whether AI has been baptised. When is its' first communion?

Posted by Moishe on June 23, 2025, 8:15 am, in reply to "heh you noticed that too"

Simple minds want to know.

The first time you utilized it.

Posted by GOG on June 23, 2025, 9:32 am, in reply to "I wonder whether AI has been baptised. When is its' first communion?"

Every bow of the head to the tablet of the image of the beast that speaks

Posted by GOG on June 23, 2025, 9:30 am, in reply to "I wonder whether AI has been baptised. When is its' first communion?"

is a paen to AI. The rule is when one’s bows to the creature as a tool for deriving a truth, that it be acknowledged for the evil it is. Otherwise God is insulted, replaced by artificial alien intelligence as if such a silicon device can ever answer a prayer. It cannot.

Hey Moishe, read the strong AI case for Atheism I added.

Posted by Mugwump on June 23, 2025, 8:21 am, in reply to "I wonder whether AI has been baptised. When is its' first communion?"

Stronger than anything Scott or the Myopic one have ever offered in support of their absolute position.

Yes, I read it. That is what inspired my baptism comment.

Posted by Moishe on June 23, 2025, 5:31 pm, in reply to "Hey Moishe, read the strong AI case for Atheism I added."

He's the Marquis De Sade of Hyde Park Corner preachers

Posted by Mugwump on June 17, 2025, 11:41 am, in reply to "of course he did - it's his favorite tactic. "

He torments others because he loves them (or so he claimed_)

wow, twist the point of the post much

Posted by Trish on June 14, 2025, 4:14 pm, in reply to "Jesus may be prattle to you, and that's ok... He is your creator however"

let me try to put this in a way you understand

First I NEVER said Jesus was prattle. I said all the legal red tape over prayer was prattle. Get your story straight

Second:

A person can pray anywhere, any time without vocalization ... you can do so in the bathroom (you won't get interrupted

That means that laws about prayer are moot. If you want a place of worship, go to one. If you want to talk to God, you can do so without a sacred space. I have a friend who has conversations with the Great Spirit while mowing the lawn. I suspect the Divine doesn't mind the "where" or "whens"

And, your faith has no power in my life. I will never have to worry about your claims.

I don't claim anything

Posted by scott on June 15, 2025, 8:20 pm, in reply to "wow, twist the point of the post much"

but
God
has
a
claim
on
you...
and
that's
the
only
point
you
call
prattle.

again you lie, How about a REAL conversation

Posted by Trish on June 16, 2025, 7:49 am, in reply to "I don't claim anything"

that is not what I said and you know it.

Stop with the proseltizing and just talk.

Here, I will start a conversation

What are your thoughs on the Holy Spirit?

what-are-yours-on-the-king-protests?

Posted by scott on June 16, 2025, 9:14 pm, in reply to "again you lie, How about a REAL conversation"

did
you
join
in?

Maybe
in
spirit
if
not
in
body?

I
have
no
reason
to
lie,
you
simply
disagree
with
my
point
of
view,
even
knowing
I
am
right.

and there it is

Posted by TRISH on June 17, 2025, 6:20 am, in reply to "what-are-yours-on-the-king-protests?"

"even knowing I am right"

you distroyed a conversation before it even began.

oh well I tried

and-where-will-you-be?

Posted by scott on June 17, 2025, 7:00 am, in reply to "and there it is"

at-the-judgement?

You
changed
the
topic
not
me.

Now
you
can
ask
the
Holy
Spirit
and
see
what
He
says...after-all-you-hrought-Him-up.

another attempt at changing the subject doesn't look good on you Scott

Posted by Trish on June 17, 2025, 11:11 am, in reply to "and-where-will-you-be?"

let's review

I asked you what you thought of the Holy Spirit

You replied (changing the topic) what are yours on the No Kings movement (followed by saying and I quote, "you simply disagree with my point of view EVEN KNOWING I AM RIGHT.")

I pointed out that your statement made any conversation moot. You have your mind made up and have no intent on having honest discussion.

And I do not know you are right. I do not believe you are right. You made a broad, untrue, statement.

I actually thought a conversation about how people see/interpret the HS would be interesting and a good topic for the board. BTW. In original translations the Hebrew term for the HS is feminine

may your religion serve you well here while it can..

Posted by scott on June 18, 2025, 11:14 am, in reply to "another attempt at changing the subject doesn't look good on you Scott"

It will serve me until my energy returns to the Universe

Posted by TRISH on June 19, 2025, 7:31 am, in reply to "may your religion serve you well here while it can.."

perhaps I will return (I do believe in reincarnation, but cannot prove it, of course)

I'm happy. I've been a neo-Pagan for 40 years. If it ain't broken...

As usual, no one tries to belittle's Scott's beliefs, but he devotes

Posted by Mugwump on June 19, 2025, 9:34 am, in reply to "It will serve me until my energy returns to the Universe"

himself to attacking theirs. This is what Ken made note of in his post some time ago (which should be regularly cited) but Scott is unwilling or incapable of displaying the common courtesy that is called for. He seems little more than a bitter little wanna-be.

Yeah, sad to say I am used to it

Posted by Trish on June 19, 2025, 1:56 pm, in reply to "As usual, no one tries to belittle's Scott's beliefs, but he devotes"

but it's okay. I don't need his permission or approval for my faith. Nor do I need him to believe as I do. IMO when you whollop people over the head with unprovables, people stop listening because they cannot be heard.

My faith does not believe in prostelization. If someone asks something I'll answer, but I will never say "you must" do x, y, or z to be accepted in the Universe. That is a highly personal choice.

What I find very confusing is that Scott at one time was posting Bible studies, and I at least made an effort to reply respectfully, even with questions.

He doesn't seem to have critical thinking skills when it comes to discourse on religion. You cannot keep saying, "I'm right and you're wrong" and expect any type of conversation. You stopped it before it even began. It's a waste of time.

Hope you are well and enjoying a nice upcoming weekend.

no-substance-to-hocus-pocus-Trish

Posted by scott on June 19, 2025, 9:09 am, in reply to "It will serve me until my energy returns to the Universe"

it's-not-broken-because-it-never-was-real

He can't possibly think that berating others will gain adherents

Posted by Mugwump on June 19, 2025, 3:39 pm, in reply to "no-substance-to-hocus-pocus-Trish"

unless he's truly deranged.

One word

Posted by trish on June 19, 2025, 4:39 pm, in reply to "He can't possibly think that berating others will gain adherents"

Ego

one could say the same of your beliefs Scott

Posted by Trish on June 19, 2025, 1:50 pm, in reply to "no-substance-to-hocus-pocus-Trish"

Meh, I do not worry about your opinion. There are higher powers whose opinions matter bazilions of times more.

I have to wonder what God thinks of your chest-pounding, over-the-top, judgements of others.

the-highest-power-is-Jesus

Posted by scott on June 23, 2025, 8:56 am, in reply to "one could say the same of your beliefs Scott"

Only
God's
will
matters
and
following
Him.

Sorry
you
find
comfort
with
unbelievers
to
be
your
chocolate.

okay lets try this YOUR way

Posted by trish on June 23, 2025, 11:31 am, in reply to "the-highest-power-is-Jesus"

There
is
no
truth
to
what
you
say
only
faith
which
by
definition
can't
be
proven
And
I
prefer
vanilla
thanks

yeah-my-space-bar-is-broken

Posted by scott on June 23, 2025, 1:02 pm, in reply to "okay lets try this YOUR way"

and
many's
faith
has
been
too.

75 years

Posted by Christopher Blackwell on June 13, 2025, 5:09 pm, in reply to "Not much has changed over the last 50 or so years"

Scott, I started school in 1950, all public, and none of them had prayer in class. I do recall the Pledge of Allegiance.

Technology has changed, but human nature is mostly the same.

Posted by Ken C on June 13, 2025, 12:20 pm, in reply to "Not much has changed over the last 50 or so years"

Smartphones don't make people more moral.

Cars are cleaner and safer, but some people still don't have enough food to eat.

Internet has made human nature worse.

Posted by Mondo Fuego™ on June 21, 2025, 2:30 pm, in reply to "Technology has changed, but human nature is mostly the same."

Yes

Posted by GOG on June 23, 2025, 9:34 am, in reply to "Internet has made human nature worse."

indeed ..

Posted by scott on June 13, 2025, 2:52 pm, in reply to "Technology has changed, but human nature is mostly the same."

Even in '93.. Clinton..Reno...ATF.. put
Waco Texas on the map for the Branch Davidian massacre...many city states, today, pale by comparison to the undermining groups in our country.

Many, recently divulged and more publicly announced, as being paid actors in these many protests from various political interests and seven religious factions.

And true to your last statement..it really has been the " technology" that has had its domains totally changed from network affiliated sources to now..the internet fiasco of frauds out there.

So many ," freedom" posers, so little authentic and morally legitimate voices. Our days more describes a scenario where information is disseminated broadly, but not necessarily in the sense of a general increase in welfare for us all. And as for knowledge, some days there's just too much of it to comprehend.

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