The Deuce

The Deuce
[ The Deuce ]

Big news on the hoops board

Posted by jdl <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=jdl' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 15:15:51

NEWS: Croatian forward Toni Bilić has committed to Illinois, his agent Misko Ražnatović told DraftExpress. The 6'9", 20-year-old will arrive at semester break and be eligible to play immediately. pic.twitter.com/jJBtE0GV8z
— Jonathan Givony (@DraftExpress) December 15, 2025

sidejack: anyone been following the Bardo saga?

Posted by Blazer <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Blazer' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 19, 2025, 13:34:48, in reply to "Big news on the hoops board"

I know it was discussed briefly a few months ago.

short version: several months ago he quit broadcasting and moved to Mexico and started some sort of travel/advisory company that helps AfAm men relocate to other countries. Has said that an experience with racism was the last straw and triggered him to drop everything and move.

At any rate, I mention it only because my social media algorithms occasionally feed me one of his short video reels, where he is usually standing on a balcony in Mexico talking about how great it was to leave.

Let me preface this saying that I have no doubt racism, whether small/large or intended/unintended, was a regular part of his life. I can't pretend to understand that experience. That said, I am genuinely a little worried for his mental health. Something seems really off with the videos he's been posting.

(Not that I know him personally or that he cares what I think, but hopefully you get my meaning.)

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NEWS: Croatian forward Toni Bilić has committed to Illinois, his agent Misko Ražnatović told DraftExpress. The 6'9", 20-year-old will arrive at semester break and be eligible to play immediately. pic.twitter.com/jJBtE0GV8z — Jonathan Givony (@DraftExpress) December 15, 2025 .

Did he drive down there in a convertible and is now repairing a dilapidated boat on the beach?

Posted by timmer <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=timmer' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 19, 2025, 14:36:24, in reply to "sidejack: anyone been following the Bardo saga?"

I’ve heard of that story

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(for rent)

In one of his videos he mentioned chemtrails*

Posted by biclops <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=biclops' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 19, 2025, 14:10:20, in reply to "sidejack: anyone been following the Bardo saga?"

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I'm so ashamed of the lie I'm living
Right on the wrong side of it all

He definitely went off the deep end*

Posted by illini21 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=illini21' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 19, 2025, 13:36:17, in reply to "sidejack: anyone been following the Bardo saga?"

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It seems every year about this time my subconscious reminds of that piece of shit DA in Lawrence, KS

Posted by opossum jenkins <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=opossum+jenkins' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 18, 2025, 19:43:28, in reply to "Big news on the hoops board"

Still just astonishing.

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I wonder how TSjr's lawsuits are going. He's suing everyone involved IIRC.*

Posted by Warrin'_Illini $<iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Warrin\'_Illini' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'>$ on December 19, 2025, 13:52:34, in reply to "It seems every year about this time my subconscious reminds of that piece of shit DA in Lawrence, KS"

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Still just astonishing.

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You cannot lose games in the NFL and still win.

I still cant believe it went to trial*

Posted by Dilbert <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Dilbert' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 18, 2025, 19:50:24, in reply to "It seems every year about this time my subconscious reminds of that piece of shit DA in Lawrence, KS"

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Still just astonishing.

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defense bad

Posted by biclops <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=biclops' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 18, 2025, 19:12:42, in reply to "Big news on the hoops board"

Last season, Illinois' defense was something of a "flat-track bully," to steal a European soccer term. In games against Quad 4 opponents, the Fighting Illini had the best defensive rating in the country at CBB Analytics. In Quad 1 games, they were down at No. 82 in the country. They're once again struggling at that end of the floor, ranking No. 108 in defensive rating at CBB Analytics against Quad 1 and 2 opponents and No. 40 in Quad 3 and 4 opponents. They gave up 1.31 points per possession to Nebraska and have allowed five straight opponents to surpass the one point per possession mark.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/47340101/mens-college-basketball-power-rankings-arizona-michigan-no-1

I'm so ashamed of the lie I'm living
Right on the wrong side of it all

Interesting projection site I hadn’t seen previously. 1% chance of a 1 seed.

Posted by DocWalk20 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=DocWalk20' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 18, 2025, 9:57:26, in reply to "Big news on the hoops board"

So, you’re saying there’s a chance

https://analytics-frontend-new.vercel.app/

Of course it also says there is a 1% chance of missing the tournament too.

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Here's one with a 4% chance

Posted by jdl <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=jdl' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 18, 2025, 11:39:13, in reply to "Interesting projection site I hadn’t seen previously. 1% chance of a 1 seed."

http://www.inccstats.com/basketball/current/team_pages/illinois.html

Keep looking, keep looking!!! :-) *

Posted by osklister <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=osklister' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 18, 2025, 12:13:51, in reply to "Here's one with a 4% chance"

Double-digits or bust!!

ooo

Posted by jdl <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=jdl' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 17, 2025, 19:20:42, in reply to "Big news on the hoops board"

Awesome. *

Posted by harb <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=harb' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 17, 2025, 19:35:17, in reply to "ooo"

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[Assassin] Harb is the epitome of a Goldfish Troll.
[Opey] Assholes gonna asshole
[tiki] #### all the way off with that, you bloodthirsty hilljack.

If you needed more evidence how much ESPN sucks

Posted by jdl <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=jdl' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 22:47:22, in reply to "Big news on the hoops board"

Always a great feeling when your reporting is referenced on the biggest stage in sports. Appreciate you two, @CoachJimmyDykes and @karlravechespn. https://t.co/7e8oZza1ZH pic.twitter.com/Q1pIjy7BKY
— Scott Hughes (@ScottHughesCBB) December 17, 2025

Yikes*

Posted by OB25 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OB25' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 22:48:59, in reply to "If you needed more evidence how much ESPN sucks"

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Always a great feeling when your reporting is referenced on the biggest stage in sports. Appreciate you two, @CoachJimmyDykes and @karlravechespn . https://t.co/7e8oZza1ZH pic.twitter.com/Q1pIjy7BKY — Scott Hughes (@ScottHughesCBB) December 17, 2025 .

When something is happening, young people like to say it’s “lit.”

Some day one of his/her made-up stories is going to come true; and... whoo boy.

Posted by osklister <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=osklister' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 17, 2025, 9:04:21, in reply to "Yikes*"

New guy will not participate in games, just practice and strength training.*

Posted by OB25 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OB25' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 19:50:22, in reply to "Big news on the hoops board"

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When something is happening, young people like to say it’s “lit.”

ESPN 100 has Wagler at 25…

Posted by LeatherneckIllini <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=LeatherneckIllini' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 13:39:31, in reply to "Big news on the hoops board"

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/46886245/2026-nba-draft-big-board-rankings-top-100-prospects-players

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…right behind #24 Dame Sarr*

Posted by DocWalk20 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=DocWalk20' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 17, 2025, 10:42:04, in reply to "ESPN 100 has Wagler at 25…"

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https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/46886245/2026-nba-draft-big-board-rankings-top-100-prospects-players

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Can’t imagine the takes in the 24 minute Sleepers video about us signing a practice body.

Posted by OB25 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OB25' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 13:21:07, in reply to "Big news on the hoops board"

Though I had set the over/under for that video at 35 minutes, so they came in below that.

When something is happening, young people like to say it’s “lit.”

Does anybody have any recent highlights of Bilic? All I see are videos from 2 years ago.

Posted by JFG <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=JFG' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 12:57:05, in reply to "Big news on the hoops board"

Which I guess makes sense because he was 18 then, and that's when highlight reels are made and posted.

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Is he dribbling around chairs?*

Posted by Phytynlini <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Phytynlini' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 13:32:28, in reply to "Does anybody have any recent highlights of Bilic? All I see are videos from 2 years ago."

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Which I guess makes sense because he was 18 then, and that's when highlight reels are made and posted.

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If he was on Indiana, the chairs would be stealing the ball. (Or at least flying.) *

Posted by osklister <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=osklister' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 13:41:06, in reply to "Is he dribbling around chairs?*"

Gratuitous Bobby Knight slam for everyone's enjoyment.

Apparently he hasn't been playing on any teams

Posted by jdl <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=jdl' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 13:05:09, in reply to "Does anybody have any recent highlights of Bilic? All I see are videos from 2 years ago."

Guess he may be too old for their "junior" teams which is why he's available for us.

I’ve read nothing that suggests he’ll make any kind of impact this year

Posted by AintHatin <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=AintHatin' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 13:21:41, in reply to "Apparently he hasn't been playing on any teams"

other than being a needed practice player

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Guess he may be too old for their "junior" teams which is why he's available for us.

Miznoz often seemed to get a guy "eligible" right after Fall Semester. Just in time 4 Braggin' Right

Sounds like that will be the situation here.

Now... is he a pro? Hmm. What are the rules on that these days anyway?

The internet seems very mad that we just signed a pro who can get off the plane

Posted by gvibes <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=gvibes' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 9:27:55, in reply to "Big news on the hoops board"

and play.

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Our fanbase is in a weird and fairly toxic place right now.

Posted by OB25 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OB25' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 10:53:47, in reply to "The internet seems very mad that we just signed a pro who can get off the plane "

We’ve reached the stage that happens with college football programs that leads to the prevailing sentiment that all fanbases are miserable, it just manifests itself in different ways.

We’re now at the Penn State football stage where a lot of people are only viewing a season as a success if we are as good as the likes of UConn and Duke. So when we make a totally irrelevant move but it happens right after a frustrating loss, people are looking for reasons to be upset.

All that being said, I do have a slight fear that going the Euro route even to just get a practice body could start to push this thing a little too far when it comes to the degree to which we are fully making it our program’s entire identity. It’s a great resource to be able to tap into, but we’re trending towards it being the only resource we can tap into for blue chip prospects. We’re mostly operating outside the top 100 for high school recruiting now, and the only transfer portal big fish we’ve reeled in across the last 3 offseasons (Stojakovic) was also due to the Euro connections.

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and play.

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When something is happening, young people like to say it’s “lit.”

I mean, that's kind of where we've always been

Posted by jdl <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=jdl' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 12:51:17, in reply to "Our fanbase is in a weird and fairly toxic place right now."

The tail end of Henson, tail end of Weber and most of the Groce era were a little different because we were mostly just bad but the rest of our history during my fandom we've been right about where we are now.

I think much of the angst with Underwood can be traced to the Loyols loss of course, with a smidgen of the Covid year thrown in as well.

But I've also mentioned this previously that he's kind of a mad scientist at work. He came in with his pinch post offense and pressure D and to his credit abandoned those once he got better players. But since then we've just had a plethora of recruiting shifts - Chicago guys (Ayo/Miller), Caribbean pipeline, transfers, one and done frosh and now Euros. And similar changes in playing styles, from Kofi in the post, pick and roll with Ayo/Belo, trying to play 5 out, booty ball, hunting match ups. Similar stuff on defense.

So what exactly is going to be the thing that gets us to that proverbial next level? Really don't know what we're hanging out hat on. Positional size and shooting is the current mantra but it's really been putting together the next team each season and trying to figure it out. Maybe that's just the new world order of college hoops.

Agree that there’s a fine line between flexibility as a positive feature for a head coach…

Posted by OB25 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OB25' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 13:09:36, in reply to "I mean, that's kind of where we've always been"

and having it reach the point where you have no identity as a program.

I could have not seen a second of Purdue basketball, turn on a game in mid-February, and I’d never be surprised at what the team looks like or how it plays. Same with Michigan State. Or Alabama. Or UConn. Or Arizona.

Whereas we’ve pivoted several times, which again has been a positive thing in some ways but it sure feels like it leads to this happening every year where there is some aspect of what we’re trying to do (usually on the defensive end) that isn’t connecting with the roster we have.

For the most part though, we’re on year 3 of positional size and shooting at all positions as our core identity though, so maybe this is in fact what we’ve settled on.

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When something is happening, young people like to say it’s “lit.”

I'd say Kylan was a pretty big get in the portal last year, but your point stands*

Posted by Blazer <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Blazer' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 12:02:23, in reply to "Our fanbase is in a weird and fairly toxic place right now."

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and play.

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That’s valid, though his stock was down quite a bit by the end of his time at Arizona*

Posted by OB25 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OB25' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 12:30:22, in reply to "I'd say Kylan was a pretty big get in the portal last year, but your point stands*"

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and play.

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When something is happening, young people like to say it’s “lit.”

I think that's all very fair.

Posted by ijustkrushalot <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=ijustkrushalot' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 11:08:58, in reply to "Our fanbase is in a weird and fairly toxic place right now."

We are achieving.

Not underachieving not overachieving.

We are historically about #15 in wins, and that's about where we are in the polls.

We are very safely and comfortable in that range without much danger of moving.

Besides one very notable game, all of our tournament results have been fairly chalky

We are very good... but there are a handful of programs that either catch fire for a year or two or structurally remain above us

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and play.

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I think a big source of frustration with Illinois is that they never overachieve

Posted by Sounder <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Sounder' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 11:54:55, in reply to "I think that's all very fair."

and underachieve a lot. As far as I can remember, we've never had a deep tourney run as a middle of the road seed.

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and play.

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Approximately 80% of our tourney games have been as the higher seed

Posted by Blazer <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Blazer' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 12:06:44, in reply to "I think a big source of frustration with Illinois is that they never overachieve"

Hard to overachieve when that's the case.

Outside of two very notable flameouts (1987 and 2021) our tourney history is for the most part entirely chalk, give or take one round (occasionally one round above, more often one round below).

So yes, we rarely overachieve, and never done so in dramatic fashion, recently or historically. But we also don't underachieve all that much either. We just sort of are. Other than 2021, when we have had an elite team, we make an elite run. (And that Loyola loss is the thing that drives all of the current angst around the program, IMO.)

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and underachieve a lot. As far as I can remember, we've never had a deep tourney run as a middle of the road seed.

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and play.

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A bit of chicken and egg there

Posted by DT <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=DT' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 12:31:29, in reply to "Approximately 80% of our tourney games have been as the higher seed"

The fact that we have been the upsettee much more often than the upsetter results in the fact that we don’t play many games as the lower seed.

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and underachieve a lot. As far as I can remember, we've never had a deep tourney run as a middle of the road seed.

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and play.

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I can't deny that, though I'd also note we've had all of 16 opportunities to beat a higher seed

Posted by Blazer <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Blazer' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 12:45:09, in reply to "A bit of chicken and egg there"

And 8/16 were against a 1 or 2 seed.

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The fact that we have been the upsettee much more often than the upsetter results in the fact that we don’t play many games as the lower seed.

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and underachieve a lot. As far as I can remember, we've never had a deep tourney run as a middle of the road seed.

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and play.

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Yeah I don’t get the stay in your lane attitude

Posted by snipes824 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=snipes824' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 11:35:07, in reply to "I think that's all very fair."

You’re historically 15, so be happy staying at 15 in perpetuity.

That’s not really human nature. You strive for more. You try to grow and achieve and break through.

15 is amazing as a floor. It’s not as amazing as a ceiling. Which is probably the glass half full/glass half empty paradox of our situation.

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and play.

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i didn't express any preferences

Posted by ijustkrushalot <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=ijustkrushalot' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 11:54:01, in reply to "Yeah I don’t get the stay in your lane attitude"

just statement of where we are.

Obviously you compete to win, and want to win more.

Some people should probably reflect on how many remotes they want to destroy if we finish 24-12... regardless on whether want more or not

As long as we're still at or near the top of the "best programs to have never won a title" list

Posted by IlliniOllie <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=IlliniOllie' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 11:51:23, in reply to "Yeah I don’t get the stay in your lane attitude"

we're always going to be anxious and bitter and toxic.

We're not a blue blood, we're blue balls.

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and play.

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Don't we hold that distinction rather convincingly?*

Posted by Sounder <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Sounder' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 13:09:50, in reply to "As long as we're still at or near the top of the "best programs to have never won a title" list"

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we're always going to be anxious and bitter and toxic.

We're not a blue blood, we're blue balls.

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and play.

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It's us, Purdue and Houston IMO *

Posted by jdl <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=jdl' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 13:21:13, in reply to "Don't we hold that distinction rather convincingly?*"

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we're always going to be anxious and bitter and toxic.

We're not a blue blood, we're blue balls.

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and play.

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us and Purdue

Posted by assassin <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=assassin' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 13:20:37, in reply to "Don't we hold that distinction rather convincingly?*"

Gonzaga probably next now lol

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we're always going to be anxious and bitter and toxic.

We're not a blue blood, we're blue balls.

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and play.

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Brandon Schrock of Laredo, Texas, told the federal government that his employer was “poop,” and his occupation was “pooper.”

I think you can rephrase that to "as long as we continue to watch sports" *

Posted by ijustkrushalot <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=ijustkrushalot' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 11:54:23, in reply to "As long as we're still at or near the top of the "best programs to have never won a title" list"

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we're always going to be anxious and bitter and toxic.

We're not a blue blood, we're blue balls.

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and play.

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That’s definitely not what I’m trying to say. I count myself as part of the group I’m describing…

Posted by OB25 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OB25' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 11:50:36, in reply to "Yeah I don’t get the stay in your lane attitude"

where I find myself being pissed off at dropping to #13 in KenPom but then on the other hand am trying to remind myself how much I would have killed to be ranked #13 in KenPom for basically the entirety of the 2007-2020 time period. So that’s the dynamic I’m describing when it comes to the confusing mental state that a lot of people are in.

Where I diverge from some of our internet fan base is in the reaction to that frustration. Brad Underwood not being as good as Dan Hurley or Matt Painter doesn’t mean he sucks or that we should move on from him. Doing so would be viewed as one of the most insane/dumbest coaching decisions ever made by most neutral observers.

Building and maintaining a top 15 program is incredibly hard to do and we are just coming off a 15 year stretch where we learned that the hard way. It’s very likely that Underwood never wins a title here, but hardly anyone wins a title. Sampson hasn’t. Barnes hasn’t. Painter hasn’t. Pearl never did. Izzo only did it once and that was 25 years ago.

So as much as it pains me that we may never get over the hump, I don’t think that continuing to stack successful seasons is a sign of progress stalling out just because we maybe haven’t had the one true breakthrough yet. There is something to be said for continuing to give yourself bites at the apple.

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and play.

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When something is happening, young people like to say it’s “lit.”

agree*

Posted by OWWDig <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OWWDig' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 12:30:28, in reply to "That’s definitely not what I’m trying to say. I count myself as part of the group I’m describing…"

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and play.

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Well said*

Posted by Blazer <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Blazer' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 12:08:23, in reply to "That’s definitely not what I’m trying to say. I count myself as part of the group I’m describing…"

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and play.

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100% aligned. I feel the exact same way

Brad has been awesome and firing him would be insanity. He may never win a title here, but he has us in the mix. But during seasons when it becomes clear again that we’re mix-adjacent instead of full mix, I will become disappointed and start thinking about what we need to improve to get there in the future. Non-toxically, of course.

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and play.

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That list of coaches to never win a NC was a good perspective giver.*

Posted by JFG <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=JFG' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 11:53:47, in reply to "That’s definitely not what I’m trying to say. I count myself as part of the group I’m describing…"

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and play.

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Yeah. And Izzo only winning one is kind of crazy to think about

Posted by DT <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=DT' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 12:03:12, in reply to "That list of coaches to never win a NC was a good perspective giver.* "

They were making Final Fours routinely, were getting top 10 recruiting classes, and had one of the top 3 or 4 coaches of his generation. And he still won a single title. Similar story for Calipari, who also only won one title.

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and play.

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And that Izzo NC was the last one the B1G has won.

Posted by tvillini <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=tvillini' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 12:47:30, in reply to "Yeah. And Izzo only winning one is kind of crazy to think about"

We've also seen the "Be careful what you wish for" side though...and no one wants

Posted by OWWDig <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OWWDig' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 11:41:59, in reply to "Yeah I don’t get the stay in your lane attitude"

to go back to the Weber/Groce eras. I'd rather go with BU and stay above that level with a chance to progress than go backward.

And I don't really care where the talent comes from as long as the staff does a good job of evaluating and bringing it in - whether that be from overseas or Shawnee, KS.

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and play.

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This has zero to do with firing underwood, which I’d never do

Huge supporter of Brad.

It’s about wanting him to learn and adapt again after trying euro only, all offense no defense for a couple years. Maybe it breaks through, but the results so far seem capped.

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and play.

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Love Brad. But I'm completely Veruca Salt on this program.

Posted by JFG <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=JFG' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 13:01:01, in reply to "This has zero to do with firing underwood, which I’d never do"

Don't care how, I want it now. Big Ten Titles, a National Championship.

And I think Brad is awesome. But I want what I want. A bean feast. Cream buns and donuts and fruitcakes with no nuts so good you could go nuts. And Big Ten titles, and a National Championship.

Give it to me now. Don't tell me why it can't happen. Don't give me excuses. Just get it done.

Which is the dumbest and most unrealistic and unhealthy way to look at all of this, but that's where I'm at. Because NIL is about paying money to win, and a kid might only stay one year at a time. So get it done.

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and play.

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You'll have nothing and like it*

Posted by AintHatin <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=AintHatin' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 13:03:20, in reply to "Love Brad. But I'm completely Veruca Salt on this program."

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and play.

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100% the most likely outcome.*

Posted by JFG <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=JFG' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 13:04:39, in reply to "You'll have nothing and like it*"

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and play.

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gotcha. but in general, that's what I keep seeing (fire Brad). as to the other point,

Posted by OWWDig <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OWWDig' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 12:28:43, in reply to "This has zero to do with firing underwood, which I’d never do"

I get it...but at least he's open to exploring other avenues while maintaining some level of success.

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and play.

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It's also always worth pointing out in these conversations that social media isn't real

Posted by Blazer <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Blazer' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 12:34:05, in reply to "gotcha. but in general, that's what I keep seeing (fire Brad). as to the other point,"

Our Twitter fanbase is particularly unhinged, and while there are certainly a handful of very vocal personalities driving the engagement who are definitely real people, I'm not sure how much of the subsequent discourse is actual people, given what we know about bots and Twitter activity these days.

(As a sidenote, I've been trying to impress this upon roughy lately, who tends to let the mood of the Twitter-sphere drive his approach to the fanbase. None of it is real.)

Rather, I like to use the "Mom" rule in these situations--if my Mom, who watches all Illini games but gets her news from the radio shows and News-Gazoo--hasn't registered something, then things are just fine for about 99% of the fanbase.

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I get it...but at least he's open to exploring other avenues while maintaining some level of success.

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and play.

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The call in shows are more real...but yea, I see your point there. But I also hear it

Posted by OWWDig <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OWWDig' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 13:15:51, in reply to "It's also always worth pointing out in these conversations that social media isn't real"

from fans I know.

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I get it...but at least he's open to exploring other avenues while maintaining some level of success.

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and play.

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I'd trust Whitman to make a good hire much more than I'd trust Guenther and/or Thomas

Posted by IlliniSax05 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=IlliniSax05' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 11:46:00, in reply to "We've also seen the "Be careful what you wish for" side though...and no one wants"

But I also don't expect Whitman to fire Underwood barring some major issue or program collapse, so it's really a moot point

Why do you hate me, Sammich?

MAJOR UPDATE: "Maybe you're not such a bad egg, Lisle-y"
-Sammich, 1/15/2011

Fair. Yes, about JW's competence.*

Posted by OWWDig <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OWWDig' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 12:29:12, in reply to "I'd trust Whitman to make a good hire much more than I'd trust Guenther and/or Thomas"

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But I also don't expect Whitman to fire Underwood barring some major issue or program collapse, so it's really a moot point

Don't believe he is a pro *

Posted by jdl <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=jdl' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 10:31:49, in reply to "The internet seems very mad that we just signed a pro who can get off the plane "

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and play.

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the new wild west is a bit of a culture shock*

Posted by Sammich <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Sammich' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 9:46:24, in reply to "The internet seems very mad that we just signed a pro who can get off the plane "

I want to break it up
I want to smash it up
I want to #### it up
I want to watch it come down

All good by me. I just want somebody that can (and will) play defense.

Posted by JFG <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=JFG' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2025, 9:35:43, in reply to "The internet seems very mad that we just signed a pro who can get off the plane "

Don't really know much about the new guy, but hopefully he can blend in and be a contributor.

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and play.

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I wonder what good ole Matic Vesel is doing these days-*

Posted by Ron McDon <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Ron+McDon' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 18:44:34, in reply to "Big news on the hoops board"

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Looks like most recently averaging 8 points 9 boards for Gorica, a Slovenian team. *

Posted by larue33 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=larue33' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 19:29:01, in reply to "I wonder what good ole Matic Vesel is doing these days-*"

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If he can’t play defense, I don’t care

Posted by snipes824 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=snipes824' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 15:36:12, in reply to "Big news on the hoops board"

Make Illinois play defense again.

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Also why I have been huffing the Ty Rodgers copium non-stop.

Posted by Warrin'_Illini $<iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Warrin\'_Illini' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'>$ on December 15, 2025, 15:49:44, in reply to "If he can’t play defense, I don’t care"

I don't care if he scores a basket all season. Come save our defense, Ty.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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You cannot lose games in the NFL and still win.

I agree. The problem is I don’t know if we know for sure that Ty is a good defender

He was not great that E8 year, but he was mostly guarding smaller guards who were much quicker than him. If we put him on a better wing matchup, he might actually be good.

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I don't care if he scores a basket all season. Come save our defense, Ty.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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Latulip has talked a lot about this over the last year at different points

Posted by Blazer <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Blazer' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 16:02:47, in reply to "I agree. The problem is I don’t know if we know for sure that Ty is a good defender "

But one reason we struggle with ball screens is the roster build. We are a team of really big targets and it's tough for them to get around screens. Kylan falls into this, as would Ty--they're beefy guards who won't be able to get around a screen like a Trent Frazier could.

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He was not great that E8 year, but he was mostly guarding smaller guards who were much quicker than him. If we put him on a better wing matchup, he might actually be good.

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I don't care if he scores a basket all season. Come save our defense, Ty.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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Right, it's pure copium. He's tough and dogged, which gives me some hope he

Posted by Warrin'_Illini $<iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Warrin\'_Illini' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'>$ on December 15, 2025, 15:59:43, in reply to "I agree. The problem is I don’t know if we know for sure that Ty is a good defender "

can guard some bigger guys.

But still a huge ask for a guy coming off an injury and redshirt season. And as you say, maybe not suited to it anyway.

It KILLS me we couldn't hang on to Morez. Fuck me.

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He was not great that E8 year, but he was mostly guarding smaller guards who were much quicker than him. If we put him on a better wing matchup, he might actually be good.

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I don't care if he scores a basket all season. Come save our defense, Ty.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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You cannot lose games in the NFL and still win.

Morez being on Michigan is a crime

If your roster build doesn’t suit Morez Johnson, you’re building the wrong roster.

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He was not great that E8 year, but he was mostly guarding smaller guards who were much quicker than him. If we put him on a better wing matchup, he might actually be good.

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I don't care if he scores a basket all season. Come save our defense, Ty.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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I feel like both Rodgers and Johnson were recruited when Underwood wanted to be Houston

Posted by larue33 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=larue33' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 16:31:29, in reply to "Morez being on Michigan is a crime"

and by the time they got here he'd changed his approach again. Morez probably did the right thing for himself.

Definitely all true

I think Brad should have pivoted again once we had Morez and as he thought about what this year could be.

But that’s all water under the bridge at this point.

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and by the time they got here he'd changed his approach again. Morez probably did the right thing for himself.

This is where I'm at

Posted by Blazer <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Blazer' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 15:45:02, in reply to "If he can’t play defense, I don’t care"

And given that Underwood has had exactly 1 top 25 defense in 10 years at the high major level (20-21), and 7 of his 10 teams have been outside the top 30, pretty sure it's a Brad problem.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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It’s either the X’s and O’s or the roster builds

Both of which fall on him.

We’ve tried for a few years doing it this way. We’ve had some really good offenses, yet we never felt like a true contender. We were always a half step to a full step below, even if we tried to talk ourselves into being better than that during good stretches.

It’s time to try a new way. Brad has always been good at pivoting. This is a necessary pivot.

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And given that Underwood has had exactly 1 top 25 defense in 10 years at the high major level (20-21), and 7 of his 10 teams have been outside the top 30, pretty sure it's a Brad problem.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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My eye test from watching this team on defense is that we’re kinda slow

Posted by meanjeans <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=meanjeans' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 18:21:53, in reply to "It’s either the X’s and O’s or the roster builds"

Some of which might be able to be improved by scheme and communication, but you can’t really fix slow

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And given that Underwood has had exactly 1 top 25 defense in 10 years at the high major level (20-21), and 7 of his 10 teams have been outside the top 30, pretty sure it's a Brad problem.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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BLAM, there's my opinion people - behold

This team could very well be a top 10 KenPom team a few weeks from now

Posted by OB25 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OB25' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 16:12:40, in reply to "It’s either the X’s and O’s or the roster builds"

So I struggle with this current situation being an indication that something drastic needs to change. Because I really had no problems with how we defended against Texas Tech, Alabama, or Tennessee. Or Ohio State for that matter, Thornton made nothing but tough shots and then we shut him down.

It feels like we’re in ‘prisoner of the moment’ mode here because of losing one game to a legit top 25 team who had a guy go nuclear while we defended poorly. Not dismissing that the defense has been a problem for years and I’d like to see it get corrected, but I’m not ready to say we need a full roster construction reset. If Sandfort just plays a normal great game rather than an otherworldly one, we’re sitting here with 4 Q1 wins in mid-December and a top 12 ranking.

I also think that ship has sailed on changing course too dramatically, we are in too deep with prioritizing Euros at this point and I think we’ll need to continue going to that well. Really don’t have as many reliable stateside connections anymore.

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And given that Underwood has had exactly 1 top 25 defense in 10 years at the high major level (20-21), and 7 of his 10 teams have been outside the top 30, pretty sure it's a Brad problem.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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When something is happening, young people like to say it’s “lit.”

I still fall back to the position that most of our problems are due to Tomi's health

Posted by jdl <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=jdl' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 16:33:35, in reply to "This team could very well be a top 10 KenPom team a few weeks from now"

Whatever that knee injury was, he's able to play but looks about 75-80% at best. His rebounding #s are way down and he wasn't all that mobile to start with. And we're having to play our other bigs more minutes as a result.

Not sure if he's going to get any better or not. And it's not going to make our D suddenly great but I think it would be a big help on both ends of the court.

I’d like to think this is true, and the TN game supports this theory*

Posted by Herman Blume <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Herman+Blume' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 20:10:32, in reply to "I still fall back to the position that most of our problems are due to Tomi's health"

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I'm glad we only have like 3 games over the next 4 weeks. Hopefully he can get back on track.*

Posted by Warrin'_Illini $<iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Warrin\'_Illini' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'>$ on December 15, 2025, 17:00:45, in reply to "I still fall back to the position that most of our problems are due to Tomi's health"

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You cannot lose games in the NFL and still win.

This is not me reacting to one loss

We could wind up top 10 kenpom in 2 weeks and I’ll still think we’re a rung below the true contenders. I mean, I’ll need to see what everything looks like then, who knows, my opinion always changes based upon what I’m seeing, but this is not just about our kenpom.

Texas tech does not seem great this year. I don’t believe this is one of Tennessee’s stronger teams. UConn is the true top level team and they punked us again. We’re a good team. We’ll always be a good team under Brad. But we haven’t felt great in awhile. Where you go into Michigan and dominate them like we did that year after Ayo got hurt. Like I can’t even envision this team doing that to anyone. I want to dominate some good teams again. Like Oregon last year. We used to be a team who did that more often and sustained it.

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And given that Underwood has had exactly 1 top 25 defense in 10 years at the high major level (20-21), and 7 of his 10 teams have been outside the top 30, pretty sure it's a Brad problem.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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I’m on the same page about really wanting to see us take that last step as a program

Posted by OB25 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OB25' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 16:35:13, in reply to "This is not me reacting to one loss"

But we’re only one season removed from being objectively one of the 5-6 best teams in the country by the end of the year. So it just feels like a bit of a stretch to say we haven’t been great in a while.

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And given that Underwood has had exactly 1 top 25 defense in 10 years at the high major level (20-21), and 7 of his 10 teams have been outside the top 30, pretty sure it's a Brad problem.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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When something is happening, young people like to say it’s “lit.”

That season ended up strange because of the Shannon thing

And while we were borderline one of the top 5-6 by the end, the actual top team murdered us.

So I sort of agree and sort of disagree. We were largely our typical top 15-20 team most of the year. But maybe I’m forgetting.

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And given that Underwood has had exactly 1 top 25 defense in 10 years at the high major level (20-21), and 7 of his 10 teams have been outside the top 30, pretty sure it's a Brad problem.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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We were #9 on Jan 5th and then it got wonky for a bit due to Shannon’s situation.

Posted by OB25 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OB25' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 17:01:17, in reply to "That season ended up strange because of the Shannon thing"

But we were back to #6 by the end of the year. So I think it’s fair to say that was a legitimate top 10 team at minimum.

I definitely want us to be a dominant #1 seed type team again, but I also don’t think the benchmark for success should be if we are as good as the best team in the whole country. We just need to keep stacking top 20 seasons with some on the higher end of that sprinkled in.

I do get the frustrations though, Saturday really hurt for me because I had started to fully buy in on this team.

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And given that Underwood has had exactly 1 top 25 defense in 10 years at the high major level (20-21), and 7 of his 10 teams have been outside the top 30, pretty sure it's a Brad problem.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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When something is happening, young people like to say it’s “lit.”

It feels like it’s always *just* out of reach for us

Dominate Oregon on the road, lose to USC at home.

Beat Tennessee and then OSU on the road, lose at home to Nebraska.

Whenever it’s about to click, it doesn’t. And there’s always an injury to point to, or a lack of practice time or something, but I think it’s mostly that our rosters have not quite hit the level we want.

If Tomi somehow turns back into a top C, maybe it can happen for this team. But that’s tough to envision right now.

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And given that Underwood has had exactly 1 top 25 defense in 10 years at the high major level (20-21), and 7 of his 10 teams have been outside the top 30, pretty sure it's a Brad problem.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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The counterpoint is that this is what it's like for virtually every college basketball

Posted by Blazer <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Blazer' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 19:00:33, in reply to "It feels like it’s always *just* out of reach for us"

program except maybe 4-5. And even among those 4-5, nobody is dominating year in and year out save maybe Duke and UConn. Even Kansas, UNC, and Kentucky are seeing slight downturns.

Granted, we're not hitting the 1 seed level every few years like those teams, and that's what's missing. But we're also only 5 years removed from our last 1 seed. And that's par for the history of our program too.

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And given that Underwood has had exactly 1 top 25 defense in 10 years at the high major level (20-21), and 7 of his 10 teams have been outside the top 30, pretty sure it's a Brad problem.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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Right, I don’t expect to be a 1 seed every year

Posted by snipes824 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=snipes824' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 20:03:32, in reply to "The counterpoint is that this is what it's like for virtually every college basketball"

We’ve won the most B1G games of any program the last 5 years or whatever it is. But we also haven’t won an outright regular season conference title during that run. And I think that’s indicative of where I feel we’re at. Right there but somehow just not good enough.

I’ll also say I’m in a little bit of a sports black hole right now with my teams, so I’ll admit I might be a little in my feelings on this.

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And given that Underwood has had exactly 1 top 25 defense in 10 years at the high major level (20-21), and 7 of his 10 teams have been outside the top 30, pretty sure it's a Brad problem.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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Meh, the feelings are valid. Such is the plight of a fan base that’s never won a NC.

Posted by JFG <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=JFG' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 20:27:34, in reply to "Right, I don’t expect to be a 1 seed every year "

As a Cubs fan that just gets so pissed at the way the Ricketts don’t spend, we all still have that 2016 team. That can never be undone and that moment meant a lot,

We just don’t have that on the Illini side, so we’re all gonna be in the feels (if we truly care) until we get the NC.

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And given that Underwood has had exactly 1 top 25 defense in 10 years at the high major level (20-21), and 7 of his 10 teams have been outside the top 30, pretty sure it's a Brad problem.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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Even if Tomi turned into the best C in college basketball, this team is nowhere close to playing

Posted by voiceofreason <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=voiceofreason' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 17:34:12, in reply to "It feels like it’s always *just* out of reach for us"

with Arizona, Duke, UConn, etc. I haven’t watched Michigan or Iowa St yet, but I’m assuming they are similar.

You aren’t winning a national championship without athletes. Those teams are blowing by guys, dunking, and scoring in transition. We are scoop shotting from 5 feet off the floor and throwing slow spin moves into the lane. It’s just not close.

Brad has had us at that top level before, but this extreme dive into the Euros isn’t getting us there. It will keep us relevant, but we won’t be a threat to win it all with this strategy.

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And given that Underwood has had exactly 1 top 25 defense in 10 years at the high major level (20-21), and 7 of his 10 teams have been outside the top 30, pretty sure it's a Brad problem.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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I'm on record that the next three weeks should tell us everything

Posted by Blazer <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Blazer' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 16:16:32, in reply to "This team could very well be a top 10 KenPom team a few weeks from now"

We've got three weeks of practice with only two games over break. It is very very possible it really is a matter of communication and comfort with a new roster and new scheme.

And Brad always streamlines what's not working this time of year.

Maybe we won't be an elite defense with this roster, but I'm optimistic we'll get the course corrected by the time B1G play restarts. And if we don't, there's nobody to blame but Brad.

And we'll still be fine and make the Tourney and have a shot at the second weekend. But if they don't figure it out it obviously caps our ceiling.

Previous Message

And given that Underwood has had exactly 1 top 25 defense in 10 years at the high major level (20-21), and 7 of his 10 teams have been outside the top 30, pretty sure it's a Brad problem.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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He made it clear he was going to favor offense over defense

Posted by jdl <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=jdl' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 16:01:40, in reply to "It’s either the X’s and O’s or the roster builds"

Which I agree with, but if you're going to also go after so many less than athletic players, you need to have a scheme to at least be decent on the other end.

People started joking that we've turned into Fran's Iowa teams, but....yeah....maybe we are. A little higher ceiling maybe but the lack of D is concerning.

I prefer offense over defense as well, but you need athletes at this level

Tomi and Mirk being your 4/5 is nuts from an athleticism standpoint. Both have skill, but that has to be the slowest, least vertically explosive big group in the P4.

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Even with that, you can still play good D without them

Posted by jdl <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=jdl' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 16:10:08, in reply to "I prefer offense over defense as well, but you need athletes at this level"

Wisconsin's had many good defensive teams over the years without tons of athleticism.

Fair

Ultimately, I just want to be better. We just haven’t felt like an actual contender since Ayo left. I don’t go into games confident like I used to. I want that back. And I think it’s largely athleticism, but also some intangible things. There’s just been something missing from these last few teams.

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Wisconsin's had many good defensive teams over the years without tons of athleticism.

Yep--and if you have to choose one over the other, choose offense

Posted by Blazer <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Blazer' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 16:05:14, in reply to "He made it clear he was going to favor offense over defense"

There is definitely a higher correlation between high level success and high level offense. But I don't get why he has framed it as an either/or in the past. Because it's also clear you have to have a top 25 defense to compete at the level he wants, and his teams simply do not produce that consistently.

Even at SFA, adjusting for the mid major level, he was producing elite offenses (relatively speaking) and atrocious defenses.

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His last defense at SFA was 38 on kenpom

Posted by jdl <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=jdl' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 16:06:27, in reply to "Yep--and if you have to choose one over the other, choose offense"

Which for a low major program is really outstanding

Fair enough, but the two years before that it was

Posted by Blazer <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Blazer' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 16:11:48, in reply to "His last defense at SFA was 38 on kenpom"

58/105 and 32/98 offense/defense, which is the general pattern his teams follow.

It's not that he's incapable of fielding a good defense--20-21 was top 10 after all--but just not consistently. And more to the point the last 4-5 years have been particularly frustrating given the number of different approaches.

The two years after 20-21 were solid at kenpom 28 and 26, but then we dumped Chester (who I assume was the defensive assistant on those teams).

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Which for a low major program is really outstanding

Yep. And I'll always take this over Weber ball

Posted by Blazer <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Blazer' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 15:59:32, in reply to "It’s either the X’s and O’s or the roster builds"

The offenses are elite and fun and the analytics will still win us a lot of games. He's a good coach who will bring in talent and we'll be in the top 25 and tournament every year. Shouldn't take that for granted, it's rarer than people care to admit.

Still hoping this year is a matter of a new scheme and roster that is still figuring things out. The next three weeks will tell us a lot--Brad always pivots away from what's not working at this point in the season.

But the defensive track record at this point is what it is. A lot of rosters and different schemes and asisstants in that decade and the result is virtually always mediocre defense.

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Both of which fall on him.

We’ve tried for a few years doing it this way. We’ve had some really good offenses, yet we never felt like a true contender. We were always a half step to a full step below, even if we tried to talk ourselves into better during good stretches.

It’s time to try a new way. Brad has always been good at pivoting. This is a necessary pivot.

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And given that Underwood has had exactly 1 top 25 defense in 10 years at the high major level (20-21), and 7 of his 10 teams have been outside the top 30, pretty sure it's a Brad problem.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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I don't think his defenses have been that bad

Posted by jdl <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=jdl' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 16:05:38, in reply to "Yep. And I'll always take this over Weber ball"

Yeah if you use top 25 as the cut off, but they have been top 40 except for 2024 and I still contend that defense was pretty good until Coleman's tendonitis forced us to use more drop coverage.

His first 2 seasons were of course terrible trying to force all those turnovers though it may still have been the best choice given our lack of talent.

I think the concern is the recent seasons and if it's a trend or not. He does seem to recognize it needs something with his hiring of Crocker so let's hope it works.

OrangeBozo has returned*

Posted by JeffFrank <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=JeffFrank' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 15:48:18, in reply to "This is where I'm at"

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And given that Underwood has had exactly 1 top 25 defense in 10 years at the high major level (20-21), and 7 of his 10 teams have been outside the top 30, pretty sure it's a Brad problem.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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Get fucked loser*

Posted by JacobRDaugherty <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=JacobRDaugherty' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 19:33:03, in reply to "OrangeBozo has returned*"

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And given that Underwood has had exactly 1 top 25 defense in 10 years at the high major level (20-21), and 7 of his 10 teams have been outside the top 30, pretty sure it's a Brad problem.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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ooooo

https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/msg/1764622494.html

Previous Message

And given that Underwood has had exactly 1 top 25 defense in 10 years at the high major level (20-21), and 7 of his 10 teams have been outside the top 30, pretty sure it's a Brad problem.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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it's fun how instead of using logic, reason, facts or numbers to disagree

Posted by assassin <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=assassin' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 15:50:37, in reply to "OrangeBozo has returned*"

you resort to a tired, unfunny, ancient insult to advance the discourse.

Previous Message

And given that Underwood has had exactly 1 top 25 defense in 10 years at the high major level (20-21), and 7 of his 10 teams have been outside the top 30, pretty sure it's a Brad problem.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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Brandon Schrock of Laredo, Texas, told the federal government that his employer was “poop,” and his occupation was “pooper.”

Don’t worry, he’ll next reply with a random link or a YouTube video. Never an original thought*

Posted by shua <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=shua' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 16:01:29, in reply to "it's fun how instead of using logic, reason, facts or numbers to disagree"

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you resort to a tired, unfunny, ancient insult to advance the discourse.

Previous Message

And given that Underwood has had exactly 1 top 25 defense in 10 years at the high major level (20-21), and 7 of his 10 teams have been outside the top 30, pretty sure it's a Brad problem.

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Make Illinois play defense again.

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One of the insiders floated this weekend that a lack of practice bodies has been causing issues.

Posted by OB25 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OB25' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 15:26:47, in reply to "Big news on the hoops board"

I assume that talking point was planted in preparation for this. Without looking up anything, I’d assume this isn’t a guy that is actually expected to play.

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When something is happening, young people like to say it’s “lit.”

This kid is a beanpole

Posted by illini <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=illini' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 15:34:24, in reply to "One of the insiders floated this weekend that a lack of practice bodies has been causing issues."

Can he get through a week of practices without getting hurt?

Yeah seems like added depth

Posted by jdl <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=jdl' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 15:31:15, in reply to "One of the insiders floated this weekend that a lack of practice bodies has been causing issues."

No way a young euro dude is going to jump into the middle of B1G play and help out.

Practice depth piece for sure

Posted by Kajagoogoo <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Kajagoogoo' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 15:36:23, in reply to "Yeah seems like added depth"

I would tap the breaks here. I'm hearing he looks a bit "clunky" on film.

Posted by OWWDig <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OWWDig' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 15:26:44, in reply to "Big news on the hoops board"

I would also guess it's not easy to come in and excel in our system.

My hope is that this is a move for future stability. Comes here, is eligible, but is really learning for the future.

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I don't know the full story here, but this feels a little like flailing.

Posted by tvillini <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=tvillini' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 15:26:23, in reply to "Big news on the hoops board"

I don't love these mid-season things.

Can he dunk?*

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I haven't stopped stewing since we lost to Nebrasketball. This is big news.

Posted by Warrin'_Illini $<iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Warrin\'_Illini' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'>$ on December 15, 2025, 15:20:55, in reply to "Big news on the hoops board"

Is he good? How do we already know he'll be eligible to play at midseason?

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You cannot lose games in the NFL and still win.

can he play defense?*

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Brandon Schrock of Laredo, Texas, told the federal government that his employer was “poop,” and his occupation was “pooper.”

I'm intrigued*

Posted by reggiedunlop <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=reggiedunlop' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 15:19:02, in reply to "Big news on the hoops board"

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I assume we have a roster spot for him or did Petrovic really leave (kidding)

Posted by Tbag <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Tbag' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 15:17:42, in reply to "Big news on the hoops board"

or was someone Creaned?

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Do Redd or Fagbemi have a scholarship? Otherwise it seems like we are at 12*

Posted by shua <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=shua' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 15:21:49, in reply to "I assume we have a roster spot for him or did Petrovic really leave (kidding)"

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or was someone Creaned?

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There aren't scholarship limits any more, just 15 roster spots

Posted by jdl <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=jdl' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 15:23:43, in reply to "Do Redd or Fagbemi have a scholarship? Otherwise it seems like we are at 12*"

We were at 14

We had an open spot *

Posted by jdl <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=jdl' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 15:21:03, in reply to "I assume we have a roster spot for him or did Petrovic really leave (kidding)"

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or was someone Creaned?

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All the IC's!*

Posted by UofIL6 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=UofIL6' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 15:16:57, in reply to "Big news on the hoops board"

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Suck our Vics

Posted by Tbag <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Tbag' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 15:19:38, in reply to "All the IC's!*"

Needs to be a shirt.

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but this guy is a Lic*

Posted by OWWDig <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=OWWDig' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 15:24:13, in reply to "Suck our Vics"

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Needs to be a shirt.

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True...true...he ruined it. How about Lic our Vics?*

Posted by Tbag <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Tbag' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 15:27:45, in reply to "but this guy is a Lic*"

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Needs to be a shirt.

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WAT?*

Posted by ATL <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=ATL' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2025, 15:16:07, in reply to "Big news on the hoops board"

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“We are old and tired and just want to be taken care of.” - Republican voter, Dec. 2024.

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