The Deuce

The Deuce
[ The Deuce ]

Never has a sports entity shown themselves to be less equipped to handle success than the WNBA

Posted by OB25 User icon on July 23, 2026, 9:15:49

It has just been an endless string of truly baffling decisions by so many different people in or around the league as it relates to the one person (Caitlin Clark) that is actually putting money in all their pockets.

They’ve managed to turn the league into a symbolic culture/race war as a result, culminating with one of the wilder articles you’ll ever see published in a real media outlet - equating the situation surrounding Caitlin Clark’s alleged flopping to the lynching of Emmett Till.

“It shouldn’t need reminding this country has an awful history of Black people being harmed, even killed, in the name of “defending” white women. The WNBA’s All-Star Game this weekend is in Chicago, Emmett Till’s hometown, and a local art gallery is currently hosting an exhibit imagining his life if he hadn’t been lynched. While it’s incumbent on the WNBA to do more to protect its players, there also should be an expectation on Clark to recognize the wider consequences of her actions.”

https://awfulannouncing.com/wnba/usa-today-invokes-emmett-till-in-column-about-caitlin-clark-flopping.html

When something is happening, young people like to say it’s “lit.”

WNBA is going to be the gift that keeps on giving until it finally implodes….

Posted by LeatherneckIllini User icon on July 30, 2026, 11:33:59, in reply to "Never has a sports entity shown themselves to be less equipped to handle success than the WNBA"

https://x.com/BrickCenter_/status/2082689587600875958?s=20

The reason for all these replies is that it’s an epic dumpster fire on its own that also feeds into a variety of stereotypes. It’s like a perpetual energy machine for stupidity at this point.

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oh, that's why there are over 100 responses on a WNBA thread*

Posted by VIV User icon on July 27, 2026, 17:32:38, in reply to "Never has a sports entity shown themselves to be less equipped to handle success than the WNBA"

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"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

Yeah, this is why it works as so well for Republicans as a political issue.

Posted by doubledown User icon on July 28, 2026, 10:33:53, in reply to "oh, that's why there are over 100 responses on a WNBA thread*"

Rather than saying "hey, the impact is minuscule and kind of depends on the sport, maybe we can just let the governing bodies work it out" it becomes part of the much larger issue that is literally life and death for a lot of people.

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Still has not scrolled down ~~~>

Posted by Stu User icon on July 27, 2026, 19:46:24, in reply to "oh, that's why there are over 100 responses on a WNBA thread*"

Still doesn't plan to ~~~>

Chicken Little poster child

What the fuck?*

Posted by Tortillini User icon on July 27, 2026, 20:59:51, in reply to "Still has not scrolled down ~~~>"

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Still doesn't plan to ~~~>

OK, I scrolled down as far as this response, but no further!*

Posted by Stu User icon on July 28, 2026, 8:36:40, in reply to "What the fuck?*"

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Still doesn't plan to ~~~>

Chicken Little poster child

I'm so glad that a bunch of white upper class cis males were given space to

Posted by Taz User icon on July 27, 2026, 18:34:20, in reply to "oh, that's why there are over 100 responses on a WNBA thread*"

State their opinions on women's sports and trans rights.

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Sometimes you just need to yeet a bobcat *

Being an Illini fan is a goddamn curse.*

There we go again, using our privilege to chime in with our opinions*

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:09:54, in reply to "I'm so glad that a bunch of white upper class cis males were given space to"

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State their opinions on women's sports and trans rights.

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It doesn't seem like you're at all glad about this. *

Posted by doubledown User icon on July 28, 2026, 10:35:46, in reply to "I'm so glad that a bunch of white upper class cis males were given space to"

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State their opinions on women's sports and trans rights.

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GMAFB. You've historically had opinions on everything, including legal issues

Posted by GMAW User icon on July 28, 2026, 8:35:54, in reply to "I'm so glad that a bunch of white upper class cis males were given space to"

on which you clearly don't have even the tiniest understanding.

And what is your point? Having knowledge isn't the same at all as having a stake

Posted by Taz User icon on July 28, 2026, 12:05:18, in reply to "GMAFB. You've historically had opinions on everything, including legal issues"

Or were you just wanting to insult me?

Carry on, I guess.

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on which you clearly don't have even the tiniest understanding.

Sometimes you just need to yeet a bobcat *

Being an Illini fan is a goddamn curse.*

My point is that YOU trying to play gatekeeper on who is allowed to have an opinion

Posted by GMAW User icon on July 28, 2026, 13:18:54, in reply to "And what is your point? Having knowledge isn't the same at all as having a stake"

on a particular topic is the height of irony. Your opinions on things where you don't have the first clue what you're talking about is literally a Deuce meme.

But I guess any gatekeeping on those topics isn't rooted in some sort of preferred identity, so it isn't analogous because reasons.

Let me ask you: do you have opinions on abortion? As a queer woman, how exactly does it affect you directly?

Opinions on legal stuff affects everyone. And I'm not gatekeeping anything

Posted by Taz User icon on July 28, 2026, 14:14:04, in reply to "My point is that YOU trying to play gatekeeper on who is allowed to have an opinion"

I'm saying y'all are way too easily dismissing the real effects of this topic because it most likely doesn't affect you at all.

As far as abortion: you realize queer women can still become pregnant, right? When you come out of the closet, they don't just disable your ovaries or anything (in fact, they generally refuse in case you "change your mind", but that's a topic for another thread). Plus I have children who also are able to become pregnant. Your analogy is very very poor.

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Sometimes you just need to yeet a bobcat *

Being an Illini fan is a goddamn curse.*

I don’t know where the idea of everyone here dismissing the effects is coming from.

Posted by OB25 User icon on July 28, 2026, 14:24:19, in reply to "Opinions on legal stuff affects everyone. And I'm not gatekeeping anything"

I don’t think the actual dialogue in this thread is what you’re thinking/hoping it is. I don’t see anyone claiming that there won’t be anyone who is affected by whatever decision is made. But every political decision has consequences for someone, there is never going to be an outcome that has zero implications for anyone. It doesn’t mean people aren’t sympathetic towards those affected.

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When something is happening, young people like to say it’s “lit.”

If it helps, I did type my entire response with my penis.

Posted by tvillini User icon on July 30, 2026, 11:36:28, in reply to "I don’t know where the idea of everyone here dismissing the effects is coming from."

That's a fair point.*

Posted by Taz User icon on July 28, 2026, 14:33:13, in reply to "I don’t know where the idea of everyone here dismissing the effects is coming from."

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I don’t think the actual dialogue in this thread is what you’re thinking/hoping it is. I don’t see anyone claiming that there won’t be anyone who is affected by whatever decision is made. But every political decision has consequences for someone, there is never going to be an outcome that zero implications for anyone. It doesn’t mean people aren’t sympathetic towards those affected.

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Sometimes you just need to yeet a bobcat *

Being an Illini fan is a goddamn curse.*

I have a daughter who played women's sports. I'll await your retraction

Posted by GMAW User icon on July 28, 2026, 14:23:09, in reply to "Opinions on legal stuff affects everyone. And I'm not gatekeeping anything"

on trying to gatekeep my "worthless" opinion since you've just opined that having a child affected directly by the policy is apparently a basis for having "worth" to your opinion.

Also, this is a legal issue, so it affects everyone.

But wasn’t your point that your opinion is worthless if you don’t have a direct stake?*

Posted by OB25 User icon on July 28, 2026, 12:09:53, in reply to "And what is your point? Having knowledge isn't the same at all as having a stake"

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Or were you just wanting to insult me?

Carry on, I guess.

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on which you clearly don't have even the tiniest understanding.

When something is happening, young people like to say it’s “lit.”

No not truly. Just that having an opinion without a stake and acting like this should be the

Posted by Taz User icon on July 28, 2026, 12:38:41, in reply to "But wasn’t your point that your opinion is worthless if you don’t have a direct stake?*"

Clear path forward without pausing to consider the very real effect of that on those with an actual stake.

Which is the case with almost everyone here.

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Or were you just wanting to insult me?

Carry on, I guess.

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on which you clearly don't have even the tiniest understanding.

Sometimes you just need to yeet a bobcat *

Being an Illini fan is a goddamn curse.*

I'm with you if that means anything....

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 28, 2026, 13:00:42, in reply to "No not truly. Just that having an opinion without a stake and acting like this should be the"

The fact that this is even a fucking discussion....

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

Any topic that is being weaponized to get Republicans elected

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 28, 2026, 12:59:30, in reply to "No not truly. Just that having an opinion without a stake and acting like this should be the"

and Democrats not elected very much impacts us all, and fuck you if you think otherwise.

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Clear path forward without pausing to consider the very real effect of that on those with an actual stake.

Which is the case with almost everyone here.

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Or were you just wanting to insult me?

Carry on, I guess.

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on which you clearly don't have even the tiniest understanding.

Having your vote effected isn't the same thing as having your life and freedom effected

Posted by Taz User icon on July 28, 2026, 14:39:38, in reply to "Any topic that is being weaponized to get Republicans elected"

That's all I'm saying.

And why you so angry, bro?

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and Democrats not elected very much impacts us all, and fuck you if you think otherwise.

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Clear path forward without pausing to consider the very real effect of that on those with an actual stake.

Which is the case with almost everyone here.

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Or were you just wanting to insult me?

Carry on, I guess.

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on which you clearly don't have even the tiniest understanding.

Sometimes you just need to yeet a bobcat *

Being an Illini fan is a goddamn curse.*

Trump being President impacts all of our lives and freedoms*

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 28, 2026, 14:48:02, in reply to "Having your vote effected isn't the same thing as having your life and freedom effected"

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That's all I'm saying.

And why you so angry, bro?

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and Democrats not elected very much impacts us all, and fuck you if you think otherwise.

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Clear path forward without pausing to consider the very real effect of that on those with an actual stake.

Which is the case with almost everyone here.

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Or were you just wanting to insult me?

Carry on, I guess.

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on which you clearly don't have even the tiniest understanding.

It's a political issue that will be weaponized this fall, and has the potential

Posted by Blazer User icon on July 28, 2026, 12:54:40, in reply to "No not truly. Just that having an opinion without a stake and acting like this should be the"

to prevent Democrats from making up ground on Trump.

So yes, we all have a stake in how this issue is framed and discussed.

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Clear path forward without pausing to consider the very real effect of that on those with an actual stake.

Which is the case with almost everyone here.

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Or were you just wanting to insult me?

Carry on, I guess.

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on which you clearly don't have even the tiniest understanding.

Everyone affected by the fact that trump is the president has a stake. And you are insulting

Posted by CoronaTheirAss User icon on July 28, 2026, 12:42:34, in reply to "No not truly. Just that having an opinion without a stake and acting like this should be the"

everyone on this board with your attitude

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Clear path forward without pausing to consider the very real effect of that on those with an actual stake.

Which is the case with almost everyone here.

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Or were you just wanting to insult me?

Carry on, I guess.

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on which you clearly don't have even the tiniest understanding.

LOL, that's why we're all here! Call me Jim Carey because I love talking out my sphincter.*

Posted by Warrin'_Illini $<iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Warrin\'_Illini' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;' tabindex=0>$ on July 28, 2026, 9:34:20, in reply to "GMAFB. You've historically had opinions on everything, including legal issues"

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on which you clearly don't have even the tiniest understanding.

I said forget about it cuh

Lulz*

Posted by chorizo User icon on July 28, 2026, 8:58:02, in reply to "GMAFB. You've historically had opinions on everything, including legal issues"

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on which you clearly don't have even the tiniest understanding.

There’s a small amount of bad in here but the vast majority is a normal, good discussion.*

Posted by OB25 User icon on July 27, 2026, 19:51:05, in reply to "I'm so glad that a bunch of white upper class cis males were given space to"

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State their opinions on women's sports and trans rights.

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When something is happening, young people like to say it’s “lit.”

Yes but the point is that y'all have so very little stake in it, your discussion is fairly

Posted by Taz User icon on July 27, 2026, 21:06:58, in reply to "There’s a small amount of bad in here but the vast majority is a normal, good discussion.*"

Worthless.

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State their opinions on women's sports and trans rights.

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Sometimes you just need to yeet a bobcat *

Being an Illini fan is a goddamn curse.*

It’s now a political issue with impact at ballots. Unless you like Trump, this does impact

Posted by MC User icon on July 28, 2026, 9:15:07, in reply to "Yes but the point is that y'all have so very little stake in it, your discussion is fairly"

Thinking back to election night 2024, it was the third biggest issue after economy and immigration.

Hello, is this President Clinton? Good! I figured if anyone knew where to get some Tang, it'd be you.

...and that's why we'll get the downfall we deserve.

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 28, 2026, 10:27:22, in reply to "It’s now a political issue with impact at ballots. Unless you like Trump, this does impact "

Massive corruption? War in Iran? Pedos in the highest levels of government? The active support of a genocide? Massive wealth imbalance? A armed masked police force that can abduct and kill at will without threat of repercussion? The death of free and fair elections?

Nah, largely hypothetical trans people playing women's sports that you wouldn't give a flying eff about if your daughter wasn't riding pine on a rural girls JV basketball team is #3 biggest issue that MUST be addressed properly by the Democrats....

JFC. Just a deeply unserious and stupid country we have created....

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

we can doomspiral about it or try to make it better. *

Posted by VIV User icon on July 28, 2026, 10:38:59, in reply to "...and that's why we'll get the downfall we deserve."

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"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

...or.....and hear me out here...

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:06:38, in reply to "we can doomspiral about it or try to make it better. *"

Amicable Divorce.

I mean if there's was any greater demonstration of irreconcilable differences writ large...

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

listen to me closely on this..........

Posted by VIV User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:18:00, in reply to "...or.....and hear me out here..."

FUCK.........

NO............

1 (and most importantly). That's bullshit defeatist quitter shit.
2. There's no practical way you could do it. By states? By counties? You'd have exclaves and enclaves everywhere
3. Seeing the hundreds of videos of people from all over the world visiting America for the World Cup, them being welcomed and seeing their joy in visiting our cities, our national parks, or even bumfuck Alabama- As flawed as we are as a country, there is beauty and goodness in all corners of it. We're not hopeless and fuck you for having already given up.

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

I've got some really bad news for you

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:25:56, in reply to "listen to me closely on this.........."

We might be the United States of America, but we are tribal AF and have been for a long time.

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I mean say what you want, but the "United" is downright comical at this point.*

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:31:23, in reply to "I've got some really bad news for you"

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

That's what is so crazy

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:34:28, in reply to "I mean say what you want, but the "United" is downright comical at this point.*"

If I chose to do so, and many do, if I just ignored the national news, the day to day existence of anyone who lives in a progressive city is completely different than the day to day existence of someone who lives in a red state.

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And that reality has been existent for like 300 years. *

Posted by haighter User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:40:01, in reply to "That's what is so crazy"

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...and has never, ever lead to bloodshed.

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:43:21, in reply to "And that reality has been existent for like 300 years. *"

Source: Trump's version of The Smithsonian Institution.

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

It's literally two different realities.*

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:37:00, in reply to "That's what is so crazy"

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"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

A friend is currently on a road trip in the Dakotas

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:39:22, in reply to "It's literally two different realities.*"

and he was saying how very different the day to day existence and vibe is there.

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therefore.... dissolve the nation? GTFOOH*

Posted by VIV User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:27:05, in reply to "I've got some really bad news for you"

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We might be the United States of America, but we are tribal AF and have been for a long time.

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"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

Dotz

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:30:01, in reply to "therefore.... dissolve the nation? GTFOOH*"

https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/msg/1785256026.html

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We might be the United States of America, but we are tribal AF and have been for a long time.

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I mean I get it...you can let an elderly man in his golden years have his pipe dreams.

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:22:38, in reply to "listen to me closely on this.........."

For some it's owning a Corvette convertible, for others it's having a United States where the United isn't performative and a citizenry that actually wants the country to live up to its promises to every citizen.

It's the dreams that keep us going and getting out of bed to face the day, no matter how fantastical.

Sincerely,
Bullshit Defeatist Quitter

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

wait, are you saying i'm being the unrealistic one in this exchange?*

Posted by VIV User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:25:54, in reply to "I mean I get it...you can let an elderly man in his golden years have his pipe dreams."

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"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

dotz

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:29:15, in reply to "wait, are you saying i'm being the unrealistic one in this exchange?*"

https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/msg/1785255495.html

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eh?*

Posted by VIV User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:29:46, in reply to "dotz"

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https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/msg/1785255495.html

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"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

Not at all.

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:27:05, in reply to "wait, are you saying i'm being the unrealistic one in this exchange?*"

I know this country is most likely going to rise or fall as a single entity.

We just disagree on which is most likely to happen.

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

I'm on board with Cascadia

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:11:05, in reply to "...or.....and hear me out here..."

especially if we get California in the trade. I think if it was just Washington and Oregon, no one would care. California would start a war.

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Amicable Divorce.

I mean if there's was any greater demonstration of irreconcilable differences writ large...

fuck you. no. *

Posted by VIV User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:18:15, in reply to "I'm on board with Cascadia"

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especially if we get California in the trade. I think if it was just Washington and Oregon, no one would care. California would start a war.

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Amicable Divorce.

I mean if there's was any greater demonstration of irreconcilable differences writ large...

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

You sounds like those lunatics in the State of Jefferson. *

Posted by haighter User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:12:38, in reply to "I'm on board with Cascadia"

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especially if we get California in the trade. I think if it was just Washington and Oregon, no one would care. California would start a war.

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Amicable Divorce.

I mean if there's was any greater demonstration of irreconcilable differences writ large...

To be clear, I don't think there is any chance this happens

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:15:48, in reply to "You sounds like those lunatics in the State of Jefferson. *"

I'm just tired of living in a country where half the population is a fucking bigoted xenophobic moron.

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especially if we get California in the trade. I think if it was just Washington and Oregon, no one would care. California would start a war.

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Amicable Divorce.

I mean if there's was any greater demonstration of irreconcilable differences writ large...

You're acting as if this isn't the country you've lived in your entire life. MF'er...

Posted by haighter User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:43:43, in reply to "To be clear, I don't think there is any chance this happens"

...you're from Bartonville! You know how this all works.

Man...people talk about the number that the Obama presidency did on the brains of Republicans...but I think it equally fucked up liberals.

We had a middle of the road black President for 8 years and you all thought we were now post-racial.

Get a grip.

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I'm just tired of living in a country where half the population is a fucking bigoted xenophobic moron.

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especially if we get California in the trade. I think if it was just Washington and Oregon, no one would care. California would start a war.

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Amicable Divorce.

I mean if there's was any greater demonstration of irreconcilable differences writ large...

There used to be actual bipartisan cooperation

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:58:01, in reply to "You're acting as if this isn't the country you've lived in your entire life. MF'er..."

Remember NAFTA? The Crime Bill?

The Peoria and Bartonville that I grew up in is way worse than it was when I grew up there. That's the fucking problem.

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I'm just tired of living in a country where half the population is a fucking bigoted xenophobic moron.

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especially if we get California in the trade. I think if it was just Washington and Oregon, no one would care. California would start a war.

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Amicable Divorce.

I mean if there's was any greater demonstration of irreconcilable differences writ large...

Way worse? Thanks NAFTA and the crime bill!*

Posted by Chuck Woodaby User icon on July 28, 2026, 12:12:56, in reply to "There used to be actual bipartisan cooperation"

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Remember NAFTA? The Crime Bill?

The Peoria and Bartonville that I grew up in is way worse than it was when I grew up there. That's the fucking problem.

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I'm just tired of living in a country where half the population is a fucking bigoted xenophobic moron.

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especially if we get California in the trade. I think if it was just Washington and Oregon, no one would care. California would start a war.

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Amicable Divorce.

I mean if there's was any greater demonstration of irreconcilable differences writ large...

I know that NAFTA gets blamed for the demise of the blue collar working class

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 28, 2026, 12:16:32, in reply to "Way worse? Thanks NAFTA and the crime bill!*"

but that demise was inevitable and NAFTA is just a convenient scapegoat. The Crime Bill is an example of how policy can evolve over time.

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Remember NAFTA? The Crime Bill?

The Peoria and Bartonville that I grew up in is way worse than it was when I grew up there. That's the fucking problem.

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I'm just tired of living in a country where half the population is a fucking bigoted xenophobic moron.

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especially if we get California in the trade. I think if it was just Washington and Oregon, no one would care. California would start a war.

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Amicable Divorce.

I mean if there's was any greater demonstration of irreconcilable differences writ large...

Improvements in communications & transport are what did it.

Posted by complainant User icon on July 28, 2026, 18:28:02, in reply to "I know that NAFTA gets blamed for the demise of the blue collar working class"

It was a lot easier to prevent competing markets from intruding on our trade when people didn't know about competing markets.

You just described most discourse here.*

Posted by ilinni11 User icon on July 28, 2026, 9:05:16, in reply to "Yes but the point is that y'all have so very little stake in it, your discussion is fairly"

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Worthless.

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State their opinions on women's sports and trans rights.

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Well that’s one strategy to change hearts and minds*

Posted by CoronaTheirAss User icon on July 28, 2026, 6:14:02, in reply to "Yes but the point is that y'all have so very little stake in it, your discussion is fairly"

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Worthless.

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State their opinions on women's sports and trans rights.

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We have different stakes, but that doesn't mean we don't have stakes at all

Posted by reggiedunlop User icon on July 27, 2026, 21:50:35, in reply to "Yes but the point is that y'all have so very little stake in it, your discussion is fairly"

Especially if you view beating Trump and the GOP as essential

Separately, there are other reasons to have opinions. I strongly supported gay marriage, but I don't think you would say I have a stake there.

alright, so a few things here

Posted by RVA User icon on July 27, 2026, 21:37:32, in reply to "Yes but the point is that y'all have so very little stake in it, your discussion is fairly"

Lot of folks here have kids, statistically, someone on some version of this board's existence probably has a trans kid. So there is a level of connection to it.

More than anything else, this is a topic that even the most politically unaware person knows is a political thing right now. Not the worst thing to practice debate it to iron out how you feel before it inevitably comes up with a coworker or a neighbor.

It's also one where I think people are probably the least set in their beliefs. I mean, ten years ago I would've probably said "ew, trans, gross" and nowadays I'm probably among the furthest left on the idea here. My kinda theme throughout this thread is that I feel it is a lot more complicated than how its presented.

And even being one of the most "let the trans kids play" posters here, I'll admit that my support for it starts to wane when it gets to the level of someone like Lia Thomas so I'm still figuring out exactly what my position is.

It also allows for actual discussion and not just "holy crap, did you see this mind-numbingly stupid thing Trump said today?" and realigns the folks here in a way in which I disagree with those whose opinions I do value.

Hmm, not sure that’s fair to say to people in this thread who have children.

Posted by OB25 User icon on July 27, 2026, 21:37:22, in reply to "Yes but the point is that y'all have so very little stake in it, your discussion is fairly"

Are they any less likely than you are to have stakes in this issue due to their child being either directly or indirectly impacted in one way or another? Wouldn’t anyone with children have a similar (low) likelihood of this becoming something that they come across in their child’s life?

I’ll be the first to admit that I’m not someone that has skin in the game which is why I wouldn’t normally get into the discussion and it’s certainly not something that I think warrants the amount of attention it gets. But much of the discussion here is about the political calculus that goes into this, not about personal stakes. It’s disgusting that some of the right has weaponized it the way they have, but because they’ve effectively done so it has become something that warrants discussion just like any other hot button political topic.

I don’t think anyone here is under the illusion that this discussion on a barely functioning Boardhost message board buried in the bowels of the internet is actually going to accomplish anything.

When something is happening, young people like to say it’s “lit.”

As a masc presenting lesbian who has spent 25ish years getting wrongly stared at in bathrooms

Posted by Taz User icon on July 27, 2026, 22:28:47, in reply to "Hmm, not sure that’s fair to say to people in this thread who have children."

And also the mom of a trans kid, yes y'all are much less likely to be impacted by this.

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Sometimes you just need to yeet a bobcat *

Being an Illini fan is a goddamn curse.*

Fair enough and I didn’t know some of those details.

Posted by OB25 User icon on July 27, 2026, 23:04:14, in reply to "As a masc presenting lesbian who has spent 25ish years getting wrongly stared at in bathrooms"

It just felt dismissive since many folks here could also end up with (or already have) a transgender child/relative/loved one/friend even if they themselves are just a straight man.

And whether fair or not, the overwhelming majority of the people who ultimately will make policy decisions on this topic will not be the ones who are directly impacted. So it just seemed unnecessary to call what was for the most part a pretty respectful conversation worthless when it was just discussing the complicated political decisions that it requires.

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And also the mom of a trans kid, yes y'all are much less likely to be impacted by this.

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When something is happening, young people like to say it’s “lit.”

Problem is….”trans in sports” allies are gonna need a whole lot of upper middle class cis male…

Posted by haighter User icon on July 27, 2026, 19:40:12, in reply to "I'm so glad that a bunch of white upper class cis males were given space to"

Supporters to move this anywhere. You don’t have them right now. You’re not gonna get them being dismissive.

Wanna dismiss my thoughts? You can do without my support. Best of luck.

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State their opinions on women's sports and trans rights.

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Sure, we need you. That doesn't mean we have to accept a pile of shit*

Posted by Taz User icon on July 27, 2026, 21:00:00, in reply to "Problem is….”trans in sports” allies are gonna need a whole lot of upper middle class cis male…"

Previous Message

Supporters to move this anywhere. You don’t have them right now. You’re not gonna get them being dismissive.

Wanna dismiss my thoughts? You can do without my support. Best of luck.

Previous Message

State their opinions on women's sports and trans rights.

Previous Message

Sometimes you just need to yeet a bobcat *

Being an Illini fan is a goddamn curse.*

It’s exhausting defending a group of oeople who do nothing but insult you

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 28, 2026, 10:04:38, in reply to "Sure, we need you. That doesn't mean we have to accept a pile of shit*"

And it makes me want to stop trying to do anything, because frankly there are 100 things I care more about.

Previous Message

Supporters to move this anywhere. You don’t have them right now. You’re not gonna get them being dismissive.

Wanna dismiss my thoughts? You can do without my support. Best of luck.

Previous Message

State their opinions on women's sports and trans rights.

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Where did I insult you?*

Posted by Taz User icon on July 28, 2026, 12:06:13, in reply to "It’s exhausting defending a group of oeople who do nothing but insult you"

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And it makes me want to stop trying to do anything, because frankly there are 100 things I care more about.

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Supporters to move this anywhere. You don’t have them right now. You’re not gonna get them being dismissive.

Wanna dismiss my thoughts? You can do without my support. Best of luck.

Previous Message

State their opinions on women's sports and trans rights.

Previous Message

Sometimes you just need to yeet a bobcat *

Being an Illini fan is a goddamn curse.*

You insulted all of us*

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 28, 2026, 13:00:52, in reply to "Where did I insult you?*"

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And it makes me want to stop trying to do anything, because frankly there are 100 things I care more about.

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Supporters to move this anywhere. You don’t have them right now. You’re not gonna get them being dismissive.

Wanna dismiss my thoughts? You can do without my support. Best of luck.

Previous Message

State their opinions on women's sports and trans rights.

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... In the same way that pointing out racism is racist against white people

Posted by Taz User icon on July 28, 2026, 14:45:27, in reply to "You insulted all of us*"

*eye roll*

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And it makes me want to stop trying to do anything, because frankly there are 100 things I care more about.

Previous Message

Supporters to move this anywhere. You don’t have them right now. You’re not gonna get them being dismissive.

Wanna dismiss my thoughts? You can do without my support. Best of luck.

Previous Message

State their opinions on women's sports and trans rights.

Previous Message

Sometimes you just need to yeet a bobcat *

Being an Illini fan is a goddamn curse.*

The flipside

Posted by RVA User icon on July 28, 2026, 10:41:59, in reply to "It’s exhausting defensing a group of oeople who do nothing but insult you"

Last year at a festival I ran into the trans lead singer of one of my favorite bands. Did the whole "loved this band twenty years ago, was weirded out a little at the time when you publicly transitioned but that's not how I feel anymore, blah blah" to which she was just like "uh, congrats on not being a bigot anymore?"

But she then elaborated how it can be exhausting when you have so much shit you have to deal with to then have everyone else want to center themselves in your experience and being made out to feel that your role is to assure others that they are the good person in your story.

I'd kind of assumed that getting yelled at by trans people online was a foreign influence operation.

Posted by complainant User icon on July 27, 2026, 20:00:56, in reply to "Problem is….”trans in sports” allies are gonna need a whole lot of upper middle class cis male…"

Because the feedback I get "IRL" is considerably more sulky.

The difference between the gay rights movement and the current thing

Posted by complainant User icon on July 27, 2026, 19:06:48, in reply to "I'm so glad that a bunch of white upper class cis males were given space to"

is that it took a lot less effort to allow homosexuals to have the same opportunities that heterosexuals have (to get married, share debt, etc.)

Being asked to change the way you conjugate verbs is much more demanding than simply ignoring people and letting them do their own thing.

So yes, cis men are affected.

oh ffs. I hope this is satire*

Posted by Taz User icon on July 27, 2026, 19:15:13, in reply to "The difference between the gay rights movement and the current thing "

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Sometimes you just need to yeet a bobcat *

Being an Illini fan is a goddamn curse.*

Yes! That's exactly the reaction we've come to expect.

Posted by complainant User icon on July 27, 2026, 19:23:18, in reply to "oh ffs. I hope this is satire*"

You nailed it.

Listen, I'm of the mind that the "trans sports" issue is one where libs are way too

Posted by Taz User icon on July 27, 2026, 19:29:20, in reply to "Yes! That's exactly the reaction we've come to expect."

Overreactive and there is absolutely room for conversation.

But not if you're gonna go full "poor cis males!" about it.

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You nailed it.

Sometimes you just need to yeet a bobcat *

Being an Illini fan is a goddamn curse.*

Complaining “oh I have to change the words I use” is lol worthy*

Posted by PapaDels User icon on July 27, 2026, 19:26:22, in reply to "Yes! That's exactly the reaction we've come to expect."

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You nailed it.

I have schweppervessence and wessonality.
Live your best life, and leave other people alone as they try to live theirs.
Radicalized by basic decency.

Is it? Because it sure seems to make a lot of eligible voters angry.

Posted by complainant User icon on July 27, 2026, 19:34:05, in reply to "Complaining “oh I have to change the words I use” is lol worthy*"

But I guess if you got a laugh out of it, my work is done.

The number of voters who would vote for a Democrat if pronouns was not an issue

Posted by PapaDels User icon on July 27, 2026, 21:22:49, in reply to "Is it? Because it sure seems to make a lot of eligible voters angry."

is very small. That is absolutely not the reason voters choose Republican over Democrat. If Democrats standing on “you should call people what they want to be called” is the reason people choose all the other bullshit that comes along with voting Republican, then we get what we deserve as a country. But I don’t buy it.

Transgender athletes is a different discussion.

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But I guess if you got a laugh out of it, my work is done.

I have schweppervessence and wessonality.
Live your best life, and leave other people alone as they try to live theirs.
Radicalized by basic decency.

The joke's on the Trump Campaign, then, I guess. Losers!

Posted by complainant User icon on July 27, 2026, 21:32:09, in reply to "The number of voters who would vote for a Democrat if pronouns was not an issue "

I didn't see that polling. Do you remember the exact numbers?

On another women’s sports note, I’m so glad Dems have learned absolutely nothing

Posted by GMAW User icon on July 25, 2026, 11:17:58, in reply to "Never has a sports entity shown themselves to be less equipped to handle success than the WNBA"

and plan to continue to tank entire elections fighting for the rights of 17 transgender women to compete with biological women. It’s batshit fucking insane.

The Dem platform should literally be: Transgender women should be respected and treated as women in every single way EXCEPT that they are not allowed to compete in women’s sports. Period.

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I'll add this note in... because this is how I've framed it in my head:

Posted by tvillini User icon on July 27, 2026, 15:56:34, in reply to "On another women’s sports note, I’m so glad Dems have learned absolutely nothing"

I'm sure there are better examples, but my wife was a Girls Cross Country coach for about a decade, and it's what I can wrap my brain around.

The 2025 IHSAA State Champion girl ran a 17:10.2 5K. Top 20 is considered All-State... and 18:02.9.

The 207th finisher in the boys race would have beaten her by a little more than a second. And the 240th runner would have finished All-State. This is out of 250 total runners.

To GMAW's point... and at risk of being labeled the Jimmy the Greek of the board here, there are structural differences between a woman's body and a man's body. It's irrefutable. And if women who were born biologically a man compete against women, what's the point? I would support the IHSAA saying as such. There will be pushback. Should we create a non-binary division? We don't need a whole race for it. They run in their biological division, and wherever they land, they land. We do it in every other Running and Triathlon race out there... you can win a championship in your age group and finish 877th in the overall race.

But this is not what our government should be focused on. Yes, it is a problem people have, but people have problems, and we can't address them all. When we've figured all of the other shit out... then we can figure out transgender in sports. Further, it's a topic that's sole purpose in our society is to drive people further apart. If there was ever a "States Rights" issue, this is a "State's Rights" issue. Message it as such, if you want to talk about sports and being transgender, then you don't have your eye on the things that are actually harming our total society.

When I was coaching in Florida, the girls had three D1 prospects returning. The coach asked...

Posted by Tuscy User icon on July 27, 2026, 19:48:50, in reply to "I'll add this note in... because this is how I've framed it in my head:"

if I could get some incoming freshman boys (8th graders) to scrimmage against them over the summer.

I grabbed whoever was available. Certainly not all of the best kids. The boys were up 30 points and running them out of the gym before we called it off.

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"I wouldn't mind the DP here." - jumpingdan

oooo

Posted by Blazer User icon on July 28, 2026, 14:21:17, in reply to "When I was coaching in Florida, the girls had three D1 prospects returning. The coach asked... "

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/

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Dudes fucking rock.*

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https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/

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I said forget about it cuh

Did you see the WNBA all star clips?*

Posted by digs User icon on July 27, 2026, 19:57:52, in reply to "When I was coaching in Florida, the girls had three D1 prospects returning. The coach asked... "

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Nope. Link? *

Posted by Tuscy User icon on July 27, 2026, 20:17:22, in reply to "Did you see the WNBA all star clips?*"

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"I wouldn't mind the DP here." - jumpingdan

Leggo

Posted by digs User icon on July 27, 2026, 23:56:13, in reply to "Nope. Link? *"

https://x.com/brickcenter_/status/2081206732999864578?s=46&t=ACBkEvAYzq8tudwAwdWy7g

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BANG!

Posted by complainant User icon on July 27, 2026, 20:37:13, in reply to "Nope. Link? *"

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DZfDE3kRVF4/

it's a highly unpopular issue that allows the republicans to plant a foothold

Posted by VIV User icon on July 27, 2026, 17:45:46, in reply to "I'll add this note in... because this is how I've framed it in my head:"

and make the election about the culture war instead of everything else the election should be about.

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

I totally agree with your last paragraph in theory, but there is real evidence…

Posted by OB25 User icon on July 27, 2026, 16:13:18, in reply to "I'll add this note in... because this is how I've framed it in my head:"

that the Republican messaging around it was super impactful in the 2024 elections. They don’t actually care about protecting women’s sports but the red meat worked. As dumb as it is, it probably will continue to work with portions of their base better than this recent communism talking point that they’ll realize is a loser before much longer.

So the Democrats can choose to ignore it altogether or dig in their heels, but there is reason to believe that it does actually matter at the polls.

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When something is happening, young people like to say it’s “lit.”

I think they do care about protecting women's sports, and I'm not sure what evidence

Posted by GMAW User icon on July 28, 2026, 8:42:43, in reply to "I totally agree with your last paragraph in theory, but there is real evidence…"

you think refutes that.

Are many of them bigots and transphobes who want to deny the autonomy of trans people to decide their own gender? Yes. But that doesn't mean they are wrong about transwomen in women's sports. It just means they are wrong about other issues.

Get back to me on them wanting to protect women's sports

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 28, 2026, 10:43:25, in reply to "I think they do care about protecting women's sports, and I'm not sure what evidence"

when they come after Title IX.

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I don't pretend to be highly versed in Title IX, but Republicans have daughters, too.

Posted by EffinIllini User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:28:52, in reply to "Get back to me on them wanting to protect women's sports"

And many of them want their daughters to play sports and be successful academically.

I hope this isn't news to you.

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when they come after Title IX.

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Apparently nobody at Heritage Foundation does. *

Posted by larue33 User icon on July 28, 2026, 13:28:03, in reply to "I don't pretend to be highly versed in Title IX, but Republicans have daughters, too."

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And many of them want their daughters to play sports and be successful academically.

I hope this isn't news to you.

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when they come after Title IX.

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Y'know the faction that want them to have no other choice than to be trad wives...

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:36:15, in reply to "I don't pretend to be highly versed in Title IX, but Republicans have daughters, too."

...and for their votes to be taken away.

Hope the existence of that growing segment of Republicans isn't news to you.

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

Suppose that it is.

Posted by EffinIllini User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:47:32, in reply to "Y'know the faction that want them to have no other choice than to be trad wives..."

Certainly not the type I'm used to in the wild.

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...and for their votes to be taken away.

Hope the existence of that growing segment of Republicans isn't news to you.

Pete Hegseth's pastor doesn't think women should be able to vote

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 28, 2026, 12:36:04, in reply to "Suppose that it is."

because they shouldn't be able to cancel out their husband's vote.

https://www.npr.org/2026/07/06/nx-s1-5822558/pastor-doug-wilson-interview-pete-hegseth

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Certainly not the type I'm used to in the wild.

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...and for their votes to be taken away.

Hope the existence of that growing segment of Republicans isn't news to you.

Wow. What a kook.

Posted by EffinIllini User icon on July 28, 2026, 12:49:34, in reply to "Pete Hegseth's pastor doesn't think women should be able to vote"

and yeah, that's frightening.

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because they shouldn't be able to cancel out their husband's vote.

https://www.npr.org/2026/07/06/nx-s1-5822558/pastor-doug-wilson-interview-pete-hegseth

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Certainly not the type I'm used to in the wild.

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...and for their votes to be taken away.

Hope the existence of that growing segment of Republicans isn't news to you.

The irony of the same people terrified of Sharia law

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 28, 2026, 12:54:24, in reply to "Wow. What a kook."

want to see the Ten Commandments hanging in every public building and school in the country.

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and yeah, that's frightening.

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because they shouldn't be able to cancel out their husband's vote.

https://www.npr.org/2026/07/06/nx-s1-5822558/pastor-doug-wilson-interview-pete-hegseth

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Certainly not the type I'm used to in the wild.

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...and for their votes to be taken away.

Hope the existence of that growing segment of Republicans isn't news to you.

He's only the Secretary of Defense. So very fringe.*

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 28, 2026, 12:46:15, in reply to "Pete Hegseth's pastor doesn't think women should be able to vote"

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because they shouldn't be able to cancel out their husband's vote.

https://www.npr.org/2026/07/06/nx-s1-5822558/pastor-doug-wilson-interview-pete-hegseth

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Certainly not the type I'm used to in the wild.

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...and for their votes to be taken away.

Hope the existence of that growing segment of Republicans isn't news to you.

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

It's cute you think this will matter*

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:31:02, in reply to "I don't pretend to be highly versed in Title IX, but Republicans have daughters, too."

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And many of them want their daughters to play sports and be successful academically.

I hope this isn't news to you.

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when they come after Title IX.

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Explain. Because in my environment of largely Republican voters who highly value athletic...

Posted by EffinIllini User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:43:25, in reply to "It's cute you think this will matter*"

opportunities for both their sons and daughters, I don't see voters happily falling in line the for the elimination of those opportunities for their daughters.

I realize you may have a different perspective on that given your situation and environment.

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And many of them want their daughters to play sports and be successful academically.

I hope this isn't news to you.

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when they come after Title IX.

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Sports is about money

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 28, 2026, 12:10:33, in reply to "Explain. Because in my environment of largely Republican voters who highly value athletic..."

and in the NIL transfer portal, the NCAA is especially about money. If taking down Title IX opens op more money for the big business of sports, they will have absolutely no issue taking it down. Also, you keep talking about voters, this will be done in the courts, the voters have no say in the matter.

This happened in April

https://www.ed.gov/about/news/press-release/us-department-of-education-rescinds-illegal-title-ix-resolution-agreements

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And many of them want their daughters to play sports and be successful academically.

I hope this isn't news to you.

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when they come after Title IX.

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100 percent. 28 percent of independent voters have a favorable view of democrats

Posted by CoronaTheirAss User icon on July 27, 2026, 16:29:59, in reply to "I totally agree with your last paragraph in theory, but there is real evidence…"

Continuing to ignore how transgender and immigrant topics play into this is a big contributor

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I still think Trump only won because he promised no inflation, pre-COVID everything, Russia/Ukraine

Posted by Warrin'_Illini $<iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Warrin\'_Illini' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;' tabindex=0>$ on July 27, 2026, 16:26:35, in reply to "I totally agree with your last paragraph in theory, but there is real evidence…"

war over on Day 1 and no new wars. Young people went for him unlike anything we've seen in a long time. It also didn't hurt him that every time Kamala opened her mouth on the trail, something dumb or out-of-touch was usually coming out of it. Of course those dumb enough to believe Trump know now he only cared about staying out of jail and accumulating wealth.

I think the Dems need to show some leadership and courage on the topic, but anyone who got worked up about this is probably too stupid and bigoted for team blue to ever win their vote.

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I said forget about it cuh

Yup....or at least I have to believe that to believe we have a chance as a nation going forward.*

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 27, 2026, 16:47:06, in reply to "I still think Trump only won because he promised no inflation, pre-COVID everything, Russia/Ukraine "

Previous Message

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

We don't. Anyone who believed that is beyond repair.*

Posted by complainant User icon on July 27, 2026, 21:04:43, in reply to "Yup....or at least I have to believe that to believe we have a chance as a nation going forward.*"

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Pretty much.*

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 27, 2026, 21:34:09, in reply to "We don't. Anyone who believed that is beyond repair.*"

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"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

Yeah, I still think it's the economy (stupid), but Sounder makes a good point about

Posted by Warrin'_Illini $<iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Warrin\'_Illini' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;' tabindex=0>$ on July 27, 2026, 17:02:26, in reply to "Yup....or at least I have to believe that to believe we have a chance as a nation going forward.*"

immigration below. Another topic where the Dems need to show some leadership and courage but usually fall well short. Their messaging has been all over the place.

Trump is a lying dumbass but his lack of vocabulary and subtlety helps him in matters like this. Streamlining and simplifying the message is what wins. Dems always seem to be on the back foot trying to explain things. Makes them seem weak and like they have something to hide.

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I said forget about it cuh

Of course they have something to hide. One of the primary reasons Trump has gotten to where

Posted by Taz User icon on July 27, 2026, 18:37:49, in reply to "Yeah, I still think it's the economy (stupid), but Sounder makes a good point about"

He is is because of his successful "whataboutism" with all politicians.

Even the great ones are slimy as hell.

Except Obama, he's perfect.

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Sometimes you just need to yeet a bobcat *

Being an Illini fan is a goddamn curse.*

It's almost as if the electorate got temporary amnesia

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 27, 2026, 16:40:56, in reply to "I still think Trump only won because he promised no inflation, pre-COVID everything, Russia/Ukraine "

when it came to the couple of months leading up to the election where everyone seemed to forget what the first Trump presidency was like for everyone.

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The economy was pretty good up until COVID, but yeah.

Posted by Warrin'_Illini $<iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Warrin\'_Illini' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;' tabindex=0>$ on July 27, 2026, 16:50:45, in reply to "It's almost as if the electorate got temporary amnesia"

Trump promised the moon and Kamala promised not to change anything. Should be no surprise the election went as it did.

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when it came to the couple of months leading up to the election where everyone seemed to forget what the first Trump presidency was like for everyone.

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I said forget about it cuh

The Trump is for you, Harris is for they/them commercial was absolute daggers

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 27, 2026, 16:19:44, in reply to "I totally agree with your last paragraph in theory, but there is real evidence…"

Right or wrong, this absolutely is a voting issue that moves the needle.

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correct. along with the debate and failed assassination attempt.*

Posted by Ari Gold User icon on July 27, 2026, 19:23:16, in reply to "The Trump is for you, Harris is for they/them commercial was absolute daggers"

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Right or wrong, this absolutely is a voting issue that moves the needle.

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Which all brings us back to...

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 27, 2026, 16:16:49, in reply to "I totally agree with your last paragraph in theory, but there is real evidence…"

https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/msg/1785159775.html

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

You have got to win elections, that's the key*

Posted by reggiedunlop User icon on July 27, 2026, 16:22:31, in reply to "Which all brings us back to..."

Previous Message

https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/msg/1785159775.html

...and with everything else going on, if this is the dealbreaker for a large enough group of voters

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 27, 2026, 16:45:57, in reply to "You have got to win elections, that's the key*"

...we are toast as a nation regardless.

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

it has nothing to do with this single thing being a dealbreaker. it's a totem

Posted by VIV User icon on July 27, 2026, 17:43:15, in reply to "...and with everything else going on, if this is the dealbreaker for a large enough group of voters"

and it's a distraction. blatant misdirection to get people to focus on the culture war instead of the tangible issues.

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

I would say, "Right, and if that many people fall for it we're cooked"

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 27, 2026, 21:36:33, in reply to "it has nothing to do with this single thing being a dealbreaker. it's a totem"

...but then I look at who is in what's left of the White House for a second term and I'm reminded that we are already fucking cooked and thank the lord I'm not gonna leave what's left of this nation to any offspring.

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

So your strategy is to give up on the United States and say "well, we tried!

Posted by GMAW User icon on July 28, 2026, 8:45:08, in reply to "I would say, "Right, and if that many people fall for it we're cooked""

I wish more people would agree with me on transwomen in women's sports!"

Sorry, but that's fucking stupid.

So close, I've mostly given up on the United States and said "well, we tried!"...

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 28, 2026, 10:22:13, in reply to "So your strategy is to give up on the United States and say "well, we tried!"

...because we're to the point where y'all are saying that despite a lagging economy, massive corruption at the highest levels, the utter destruction of our foreign relations around the world, the attempted hijacking of free and fair elections, etc. etc. etc. if the Dems don't change their tune of on all fucking things a handful of trans people playing sports, there are Americans that can't vote for a Democrat.

Though I'm all for trans rights, I could give a flying eff about sports, because it's sports...and if I can paraphrase a poster here, Life is too short and democracy too fragile to give sports that much weight.

That's why I'm starting to believe we're cooked.

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

"starting to believe"?!?*

Posted by VIV User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:22:17, in reply to "So close, I've mostly given up on the United States and said "well, we tried!"..."

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"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

I'm open to being proven wrong*

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 28, 2026, 11:40:25, in reply to ""starting to believe"?!?*"

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"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

my defeatist conclusion, sure hope I'm wrong

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 28, 2026, 12:24:07, in reply to "I'm open to being proven wrong*"

is that there is a signfiicant enough percentage of the population that is willfully ignorant, misinformed, and easily manipulated that the system is irrevocably broken, and I genuinely don't know how we get out of this doom cycle.

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do you two need lube for this defeatist circlejerk?*

Posted by VIV User icon on July 28, 2026, 12:37:59, in reply to "my defeatist conclusion, sure hope I'm wrong"

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"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

Oh honey, I'm a Cubs fan, an Illini fan, and a lifelong Dem.

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 28, 2026, 12:48:44, in reply to "do you two need lube for this defeatist circlejerk?*"

This is far from my first defeatist circlejerk.

*Pulls Costco sized tube of KY from pants pocket*

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

I don't think it's the dealbreaker, but I think it's good rage bait

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 27, 2026, 16:47:28, in reply to "...and with everything else going on, if this is the dealbreaker for a large enough group of voters"

for convincing the white working class that the Democrats are too extreme and don't have their best interest in mind, especially when you combine it with immigration.

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...we are toast as a nation regardless.

...but roving bands of masked armed thugs that operate above the law isn't too extreme?

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 27, 2026, 16:49:53, in reply to "I don't think it's the dealbreaker, but I think it's good rage bait"

Oh, wait, they're only profiling black and brown folk. Nevermind, I thought they were harassing real Americans.

We deserve the downfall we're gonna get.

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

It is too extreme and most Americans agree that it is too extreme

Posted by GMAW User icon on July 28, 2026, 8:46:56, in reply to "...but roving bands of masked armed thugs that operate above the law isn't too extreme?"

It's a winning issue for Dems. The goal is to have more winning issues than the Pubs.

...and again, if a handful of trans athletes in womens sports is the make or break issue...

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 28, 2026, 10:33:32, in reply to "It is too extreme and most Americans agree that it is too extreme"

...for enough voters to matter vs that issue, we're too stupid as a nation to deserve the representative democracy we've inherited.

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

The America you presumably loved at one point was every bit as dumb as the one that exists now.

Posted by OB25 User icon on July 28, 2026, 12:42:24, in reply to "...and again, if a handful of trans athletes in womens sports is the make or break issue..."

Only difference is you’re more aware of it. Winning in politics has always been about who can more effectively play the propaganda game, where I disagree with your stance is that you seem to think the country is dumber/more racist/more prejudice than it was before.

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...for enough voters to matter vs that issue, we're too stupid as a nation to deserve the representative democracy we've inherited.

When something is happening, young people like to say it’s “lit.”

I think the fact that Trump ended up with a second term tells me...

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 28, 2026, 12:57:06, in reply to "The America you presumably loved at one point was every bit as dumb as the one that exists now."

...we are hitting all new new stupidity a high scores....and the racism scores are making a healthy rebound!

I'd also say I'm much more worldly and experienced than the naive youth that took his oath to this country, so I've long ago shed the fallacy that we will somehow always transcend our own stupidity getting us into constitutional crises.

Every empire falls. Ours will too. Might not be in my lifetime, or yours, or your children's....but if I'm confident of anything about it, it will be self inflicted.

...and the claim that people base their vote on a couple dozen trans people wanting to play amateur sports above the clear and obvious threats to our Constitution only strengthens that belief.

GMAW thinks I disagree with him. I don't. He's just helping to prove my point that we as a nation are fucking cooked.

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

Trump second term was absolutely my breaking point

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 28, 2026, 13:02:41, in reply to "I think the fact that Trump ended up with a second term tells me..."

I understand how he got elected the first time, but I will go to my death bed not understanding how we saw what he did in four years and decided we wanted to run that back again. It will be a permanent stain on the country, and frankly I don't know if and he we can recover from it.

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...we are hitting all new new stupidity high scores.

I'd also say I'm much more worldly and experienced than the naive youth that took his oath to this country, so I've long ago shed the fallacy that we will somehow always transcend our own stupidity getting us into constitutional crises.

Every empire falls. Ours will too. Might not be in my lifetime, or yours, or your children's....but if I'm confident of anything about it, it will be self inflicted.

...and the claim that people base their vote on a couple dozen trans people wanting to play amateur sports above the clear and obvious threats to our Constitution only strengthens that belief. GMAW thinks I disagree with him. I don't. He's just helping to prove my point that we are fucking cooked.

"people of good will' is doing some heavy lifting there*

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 27, 2026, 16:20:24, in reply to "Which all brings us back to..."

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https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/msg/1785159775.html

Nothing you said there should be remotely controversial

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 27, 2026, 16:03:39, in reply to "I'll add this note in... because this is how I've framed it in my head:"

I'll say it again, if men and women were equal in sports, there wouldn't already be separate men's and women's sports. I don't see how that is difficult to process. I don't know what the answer is here, but believing that biological men have an advantage of biological women in sports should not be a controversial position.

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I'm with this guy.*

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 27, 2026, 15:58:55, in reply to "I'll add this note in... because this is how I've framed it in my head:"

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"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

*Sips coffee while watching Americans rearrange the Titanic's seating**

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:34:45, in reply to "On another women’s sports note, I’m so glad Dems have learned absolutely nothing"

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"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

I'm just glad that Trump definitely hasn't made an indications

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:37:31, in reply to "*Sips coffee while watching Americans rearrange the Titanic's seating**"

that he wants to remain President beyond 2028, and definitely isn't building a bunker under a ballroom to allow him to do so.

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That bunker will never be done on time. *

Posted by doubledown User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:41:11, in reply to "I'm just glad that Trump definitely hasn't made an indications"

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that he wants to remain President beyond 2028, and definitely isn't building a bunker under a ballroom to allow him to do so.

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It’ll be done on time the same way the Qatari AirForce1 was “done” on time. By whining, complaining,

Posted by DocWalk20 User icon on July 27, 2026, 16:10:31, in reply to "That bunker will never be done on time. *"

and cutting corners.

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that he wants to remain President beyond 2028, and definitely isn't building a bunker under a ballroom to allow him to do so.

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Of course it won't, but that doesn't mean that he's not going to try to stay*

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:52:11, in reply to "That bunker will never be done on time. *"

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that he wants to remain President beyond 2028, and definitely isn't building a bunker under a ballroom to allow him to do so.

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He's just trolling you!

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:41:08, in reply to "I'm just glad that Trump definitely hasn't made an indications"

Y'know because a sitting President kidding about usurping the Constitution is such a sidesplitter.

...but back to the issues that matter to our nation, the half-dozen of trans women playing competitive sports!

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

yesterday's Truth Social was a fucking fever dream*

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:41:59, in reply to "He's just trolling you!"

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Y'know because a sitting President kidding about usurping the Constitution is such a sidesplitter.

...but back to the issues that matter to our nation, the dozen of trans women playing competitive sports!

Don't you think trans people have rights? *

Posted by doubledown User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:24:32, in reply to "On another women’s sports note, I’m so glad Dems have learned absolutely nothing"

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Grill, I'm still curious what the obvious answer here is

Posted by RVA User icon on July 27, 2026, 10:25:00, in reply to "On another women’s sports note, I’m so glad Dems have learned absolutely nothing"

If the desired outcome is that no transgender women compete in women's sports, how do you enforce that? The consensus below has been birth certificates, but that doesn't account for anyone transitioning female to male. I'm not even asking you to weigh on in that because it is known that conservatives will take issue on that and they'll portray any support of trans people whatsoever as enabling men in women's sports to ravage our cities.

So now you're already forced to either hold the line there and say that's allowed or say that's not cool either. In which case the focus then goes on someone like Imane Khelif, born female, identifies as female, but is accused of being a man. If you support her, the attacks will be no less persistent and nasty than they would be for supporting Lia Thomas.

So I ask, if the position is that transgender women shouldn't play women's sports, what are the mechanics and messaging?

Admittedly this is much more difficult for Democrats, who have to work out those details, than it is for Republicans who can just fling shit against the wall. I'm not even saying that well since it's complicated so why bother do anything, but I don't understand treating it as if there is an obvious answer.

Birth certificates.

Posted by GMAW User icon on July 27, 2026, 14:03:48, in reply to "Grill, I'm still curious what the obvious answer here is"

Can you create some edge case that pisses a small percentage of people off? Sure. Who cares.

The goal is to align the Democratic policy position with what like 80% of the population thinks.

You do realize that you can get a new birth certificate issued, right?*

Posted by Taz User icon on July 27, 2026, 19:30:13, in reply to "Birth certificates. "

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Can you create some edge case that pisses a small percentage of people off? Sure. Who cares.

The goal is to align the Democratic policy position with what like 80% of the population thinks.

Sometimes you just need to yeet a bobcat *

Being an Illini fan is a goddamn curse.*

Here's my take on the subject

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:05:21, in reply to "Grill, I'm still curious what the obvious answer here is"

First off, I hate this topic, as we are talking about such a small amount of people, and the Republicaans absolutely weaponize it. That being said, for everyone Lea Thompson, there are a thousand awkward trans kids who suck at soccer who get to compete with their friends and feel normal. That is a trade off I am willing to make. If you want to ban trans athletes at the highest level, that is probably an 80/20 issue, as stated previously. But at the end of the day, who the fuck cares?

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If the desired outcome is that no transgender women compete in women's sports, how do you enforce that? The consensus below has been birth certificates, but that doesn't account for anyone transitioning female to male. I'm not even asking you to weigh on in that because it is known that conservatives will take issue on that and they'll portray any support of trans people whatsoever as enabling men in women's sports to ravage our cities .

So now you're already forced to either hold the line there and say that's allowed or say that's not cool either. In which case the focus then goes on someone like Imane Khelif, born female, identifies as female, but is accused of being a man. If you support her, the attacks will be no less persistent and nasty than they would be for supporting Lia Thomas.

So I ask, if the position is that transgender women shouldn't play women's sports, what are the mechanics and messaging?

Admittedly this is much more difficult for Democrats, who have to work out those details, than it is for Republicans who can just fling shit against the wall. I'm not even saying that well since it's complicated so why bother do anything, but I don't understand treating it as if there is an obvious answer.

A concession I'll freely make--someone like Lia Thomas should have recognized the fallout

Posted by RVA User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:40:34, in reply to "Here's my take on the subject"

If the objective is to let a random otherwise marginalized kid in Michigan play on their school softball team, which is the most popular reason for supporting trans athletes, then someone with the background to get into an Ivy should probably realize their domination of a sport would harm their community.

It feels gross having to bail on kids just wanting to play in order to satisfy whatever electibility threshold needs to be met. Though in my opinion it never would be, see the "yes I'll follow the law already set" Harris interview answer from years back that turned into the number one election issue. (How'd that turn out for the cost of goods, no more wars, and not having a president that's the butt of global jokes?) So let them be the face of the movement.

Put another way, I don't know many liberals who are celebrating Lia Thomas the way they would a Jackie Robinson crashing into a sport with extreme success. So in that instance, yeah you probably should have taken a seat so others can play. Though in fairness (I can't remember exactly when she swam) who can anticipate the grievance market?

The outrage component of this is completely the product of right wing propaganda

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:48:05, in reply to "A concession I'll freely make--someone like Lia Thomas should have recognized the fallout"

they always have to ae a bogeyman at all times, something to scare the shit out of people. To your point on Lia Thomas, it has occured to me that being trans is sort of a point of privilege, so I agree that she probably should have recognized the damage she was doing.

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I just feel for the 4 biological women that kicked both Lia's and Riley's ass...

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:42:53, in reply to "A concession I'll freely make--someone like Lia Thomas should have recognized the fallout"

...and live in total anonymity despite being better swimmers than those two.

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

Actually a proper use of the classic: "Life is too short to give sports this much weight."

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:19:10, in reply to "Here's my take on the subject"

All Props to Chilingo.

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

Riley Gaines should wake up every morning and thank her lucky stars

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:25:59, in reply to "Actually a proper use of the classic: "Life is too short to give sports this much weight.""

that Lia Thomas exists. It's the best thing that ever happened to her.

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All Props to Chilingo.

Democrats can't do anything to protect the wider trans population if they can't win elections*

Posted by ISeeDeadHawkeyes User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:11:22, in reply to "Here's my take on the subject"

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If the desired outcome is that no transgender women compete in women's sports, how do you enforce that? The consensus below has been birth certificates, but that doesn't account for anyone transitioning female to male. I'm not even asking you to weigh on in that because it is known that conservatives will take issue on that and they'll portray any support of trans people whatsoever as enabling men in women's sports to ravage our cities .

So now you're already forced to either hold the line there and say that's allowed or say that's not cool either. In which case the focus then goes on someone like Imane Khelif, born female, identifies as female, but is accused of being a man. If you support her, the attacks will be no less persistent and nasty than they would be for supporting Lia Thomas.

So I ask, if the position is that transgender women shouldn't play women's sports, what are the mechanics and messaging?

Admittedly this is much more difficult for Democrats, who have to work out those details, than it is for Republicans who can just fling shit against the wall. I'm not even saying that well since it's complicated so why bother do anything, but I don't understand treating it as if there is an obvious answer.

...and as said below, if this niche issue that personally impacts .01% of Americans, if even that,..

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:20:48, in reply to "Democrats can't do anything to protect the wider trans population if they can't win elections*"

...is what causes the Dems to lose elections, especially with everything else going on currently, we are cooked as a nation anyways.

It ain't the Dems position that's the issue, it's the voting priorities of we as Americans.

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

100% correct, elections have consequences

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:13:52, in reply to "Democrats can't do anything to protect the wider trans population if they can't win elections*"

and it was very telegraphed that this administration was going to do hateful shit. As I said, I absolutely hate this topic and it's because it's a huge loser for the Democrats, and we're talking about such a small number of people actually being impacted.

Previous Message

If the desired outcome is that no transgender women compete in women's sports, how do you enforce that? The consensus below has been birth certificates, but that doesn't account for anyone transitioning female to male. I'm not even asking you to weigh on in that because it is known that conservatives will take issue on that and they'll portray any support of trans people whatsoever as enabling men in women's sports to ravage our cities .

So now you're already forced to either hold the line there and say that's allowed or say that's not cool either. In which case the focus then goes on someone like Imane Khelif, born female, identifies as female, but is accused of being a man. If you support her, the attacks will be no less persistent and nasty than they would be for supporting Lia Thomas.

So I ask, if the position is that transgender women shouldn't play women's sports, what are the mechanics and messaging?

Admittedly this is much more difficult for Democrats, who have to work out those details, than it is for Republicans who can just fling shit against the wall. I'm not even saying that well since it's complicated so why bother do anything, but I don't understand treating it as if there is an obvious answer.

Transgender women in women's prisons is the other thread eventually to reach SCOTUS

Posted by Potomac User icon on July 25, 2026, 15:39:02, in reply to "On another women’s sports note, I’m so glad Dems have learned absolutely nothing"

Can or must they be 1) Allowed and merged in with the biological women; 2) Allowed but kept segregated to some degree; 3) Disallowed. I don't know whether the active case in Washington state or any other particular active will have legs in this area. Eventually one will.

That may reach the SCOTUS after they rule on whether Title IX *requires* the banning of transgender women from women's sports, not whether they *can* be banned.

Are any dems actually talking about this? Seems like it’s just SC being a typical Methzouligan.*

Posted by Toonces User icon on July 25, 2026, 14:53:11, in reply to "On another women’s sports note, I’m so glad Dems have learned absolutely nothing"

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I’m ugly.

Yes, it's an election no-brainer. That one commercial crushed the Harris campaign*

Posted by UofIL6 User icon on July 25, 2026, 14:06:35, in reply to "On another women’s sports note, I’m so glad Dems have learned absolutely nothing"

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FWIW the heritage foundation is coming for Title IX next

Posted by ATL User icon on July 25, 2026, 13:50:21, in reply to "On another women’s sports note, I’m so glad Dems have learned absolutely nothing"

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2026/07/23/heritage-foundation-title-ix-project-2025-womens-rights/91013439007/

They’re coming for Title IX.

Don’t make the mistake of dismissing the policy paper that appeared on The Heritage Foundation’s website two weeks ago as the harmless nattering of a crusty old policy wonk. This is the group that authored Project 2025, a right-wing blueprint for reshaping this country that has already led to mass deportations, the dismantling of the Department of Education and the end of anything remotely related to diversity, equity and inclusion.

“We are old and tired and just want to be taken care of.” - Republican voter, Dec. 2024.

I think this Supreme Court would absolutely overturn title IX*

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:33:04, in reply to "FWIW the heritage foundation is coming for Title IX next"

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^^^not a progressive *

Posted by Poldark User icon on July 25, 2026, 13:49:41, in reply to "On another women’s sports note, I’m so glad Dems have learned absolutely nothing"

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Social Misfit who wants to coach Illinois women's basketball.

"The only thing the DSA hates more than Republicans is Democrats."

he never presented as one*

Posted by torinese User icon on July 27, 2026, 8:26:55, in reply to "^^^not a progressive *"

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It’s an obvious 80-20 issue. The one thing the GOP is good at it is identifying these issues

Posted by CanHartlebHireSnider User icon on July 25, 2026, 12:23:43, in reply to "On another women’s sports note, I’m so glad Dems have learned absolutely nothing"

And pushing them hard

"Men in women's sports came ravaging through our cities"

Posted by RVA User icon on July 25, 2026, 12:07:11, in reply to "On another women’s sports note, I’m so glad Dems have learned absolutely nothing"

A direct quote from the president last week.

Every time I ever hear about trans issues (at least when brought up by a politician) it's always a Republican making it an issue. I suppose I did see that reran Kamala Harris quote a million times from back when she was running for California AG years ago in which she said she would abide by a law regarding prison care because it's her job to enforce laws, not rewrite them, (and the law was similarly written in red states) but its certainly not an anchor platform of the party. And yet it is constantly insisted that it is.

While the Republicans meanwhile never face consequences for daily publicly making their issues with trans people the nation's priority while everything else goes to shit.

If Democrats could push a magic button and make this topic go away forever

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:32:21, in reply to ""Men in women's sports came ravaging through our cities""

they absolutley would do so. It's an absolute loser of a topic that impacts .0001% of the population.

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Republicans make it a *winning* issue because Dems won’t do the right thing

Posted by GMAW User icon on July 25, 2026, 12:16:51, in reply to ""Men in women's sports came ravaging through our cities""

There is a real easy solution to this problem and it’s not whining that only Republicans are making this an issue

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it's somewhat easier because some global sports orgs have already decided*

Posted by Potomac User icon on July 25, 2026, 15:40:20, in reply to "Republicans make it a *winning* issue because Dems won’t do the right thing"

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There is a real easy solution to this problem and it’s not whining that only Republicans are making this an issue

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I have largely ignored this issue because it’s ridiculous but what is the “real easy solution”?*

Posted by Carl Spackler User icon on July 25, 2026, 12:19:27, in reply to "Republicans make it a *winning* issue because Dems won’t do the right thing"

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There is a real easy solution to this problem and it’s not whining that only Republicans are making this an issue

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Ban transwomen from competing in women’s sports

Posted by GMAW User icon on July 25, 2026, 12:55:01, in reply to "I have largely ignored this issue because it’s ridiculous but what is the “real easy solution”?*"

The Republicans will then move on to transphobic locker room nonsense, an issue that is a winner for Dems

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There is a real easy solution to this problem and it’s not whining that only Republicans are making this an issue

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You don't even have to go that far

Posted by Blazer User icon on July 25, 2026, 14:55:25, in reply to "Ban transwomen from competing in women’s sports"

Just punt. Don't engage. Leave it to the states or something. Redirect to the economy and the war.

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The Republicans will then move on to transphobic locker room nonsense, an issue that is a winner for Dems

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There is a real easy solution to this problem and it’s not whining that only Republicans are making this an issue

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100%*

Posted by UofIL6 User icon on July 25, 2026, 14:07:35, in reply to "Ban transwomen from competing in women’s sports"

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The Republicans will then move on to transphobic locker room nonsense, an issue that is a winner for Dems

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There is a real easy solution to this problem and it’s not whining that only Republicans are making this an issue

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But what’s that look like? Like how is the policy enforced?

Posted by Carl Spackler User icon on July 25, 2026, 13:03:19, in reply to "Ban transwomen from competing in women’s sports"

I truly mean this from a “I can’t believe we’re talking about this, I am spending 0.0000001% of my time thinking about it or researching” POV.

The 1 in that number is having heard someone talk about genital checks or some shit as the enforcement mechanism, so was genuinely curious about what other options there are.

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The Republicans will then move on to transphobic locker room nonsense, an issue that is a winner for Dems

Previous Message

There is a real easy solution to this problem and it’s not whining that only Republicans are making this an issue

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Birth certificate*

Posted by CoronaTheirAss User icon on July 25, 2026, 13:07:09, in reply to "But what’s that look like? Like how is the policy enforced?"

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I truly mean this from a “I can’t believe we’re talking about this, I am spending 0.0000001% of my time thinking about it or researching” POV. The 1 in that number is having heard someone talk about genital checks or some shit as the enforcement mechanism, so was genuinely curious about what other options there are.

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The Republicans will then move on to transphobic locker room nonsense, an issue that is a winner for Dems

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There is a real easy solution to this problem and it’s not whining that only Republicans are making this an issue

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Yes, this*

Posted by GMAW User icon on July 27, 2026, 8:27:18, in reply to "Birth certificate*"

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The Republicans will then move on to transphobic locker room nonsense, an issue that is a winner for Dems

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There is a real easy solution to this problem and it’s not whining that only Republicans are making this an issue

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Not trying to codify the “right” of trans women to compete against biological women in sports. *

Posted by haighter User icon on July 25, 2026, 12:40:30, in reply to "I have largely ignored this issue because it’s ridiculous but what is the “real easy solution”?*"

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There is a real easy solution to this problem and it’s not whining that only Republicans are making this an issue

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But what’s the actual solution?

Posted by Carl Spackler User icon on July 25, 2026, 12:43:09, in reply to "Not trying to codify the “right” of trans women to compete against biological women in sports. *"

Like if you want to keep transgenders out of women’s sports, what does this look like in practice when 1 coach points across the field and says “not a woman at birth”, what happens next?

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There is a real easy solution to this problem and it’s not whining that only Republicans are making this an issue

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Probably similar to age or residency challenges in youth sports

Posted by Potomac User icon on July 25, 2026, 15:41:55, in reply to "But what’s the actual solution?"

A friend who grew up large and advanced for his age was always being age-challenged and carried documentation with him.

In a lot of youth baseball tournaments, you can challenge the age of a competitor

Posted by GMAW User icon on July 27, 2026, 8:30:06, in reply to "Probably similar to age or residency challenges in youth sports"

If challenged, a birth certificate must be produced and is dispositive. In order to make a challenge, you have to put up $X (I’ve seen anything from $100 to $500). If you challenge and you’re wrong, you forfeit your deposit.

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A friend who grew up large and advanced for his age was always being age-challenged and carried documentation with him.

Ah, what it must do to the pyche of that 10-14 year old biological girl...

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:30:13, in reply to "In a lot of youth baseball tournaments, you can challenge the age of a competitor "

...,who happens to present very masculine, when she finds out that the opposing team thought she was a dude to the point that they were willing to foot hundreds of dollars to find out the true state of her genitalia.

Luckily teenagers are famously emotionally resilient and not at all prone to self-harm or suicide...

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

Have you ever seen someone win their challenge? *

Posted by haighter User icon on July 27, 2026, 10:44:08, in reply to "In a lot of youth baseball tournaments, you can challenge the age of a competitor "

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A friend who grew up large and advanced for his age was always being age-challenged and carried documentation with him.

I've only seen someone pay the money to challege one time. And they lost

Posted by GMAW User icon on July 27, 2026, 14:05:48, in reply to "Have you ever seen someone win their challenge? *"

Everyone has a big mouth about cheating until they have to put up $500.

Who cares? Let the GOP who actually cares figure that out.*

Posted by DT User icon on July 25, 2026, 13:29:19, in reply to "But what’s the actual solution?"

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Like if you want to keep transgenders out of women’s sports, what does this look like in practice when 1 coach points across the field and says “not a woman at birth”, what happens next?

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There is a real easy solution to this problem and it’s not whining that only Republicans are making this an issue

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Require whatever documents you fill out to join whatever league it is…

Posted by haighter User icon on July 25, 2026, 12:45:52, in reply to "But what’s the actual solution?"

To indicate gender assigned at birth. If it’s sketchy, you’re gonna need to provide a birth certificate.

Not a shitload different than proving your age in competitive sports leagues.

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Like if you want to keep transgenders out of women’s sports, what does this look like in practice when 1 coach points across the field and says “not a woman at birth”, what happens next?

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There is a real easy solution to this problem and it’s not whining that only Republicans are making this an issue

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It worked for Imane Khelif.*

Posted by complainant User icon on July 25, 2026, 17:02:38, in reply to "Require whatever documents you fill out to join whatever league it is…"

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To indicate gender assigned at birth. If it’s sketchy, you’re gonna need to provide a birth certificate.

Not a shitload different than proving your age in competitive sports leagues.

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Like if you want to keep transgenders out of women’s sports, what does this look like in practice when 1 coach points across the field and says “not a woman at birth”, what happens next?

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There is a real easy solution to this problem and it’s not whining that only Republicans are making this an issue

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So a female-to-male transition is on the girls team?

Posted by RVA User icon on July 25, 2026, 13:02:02, in reply to "Require whatever documents you fill out to join whatever league it is…"

In the interest of not being snarky, if it such an easy solution, why do the Olympics and other high level sporting authorities have incredibly complicated, invasive, and inaccurate testing procedures to determine eligibility?

Would seem to be that way. I’d, personally, allow individual leagues and states…

Posted by haighter User icon on July 25, 2026, 15:32:56, in reply to "So a female-to-male transition is on the girls team?"

That are so strenuously invested in this decide their own rules.

I’m sure in SF park district baseball that 8yo that usually wears dresses can still play t-ball. I’m not sure high school or competitive club baseball should be forced to allow opposite gender assigned at birth players on their team, were it ever to arise in practice.

Or, continue to try to solve this non-issue in every conceivable way at a legislative level and continue to wear it like the albatross that it is.

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No, no, its incredibly simple, when a parent complains they're allowed to pull pants down*

Posted by RVA User icon on July 25, 2026, 12:45:18, in reply to "But what’s the actual solution?"

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Like if you want to keep transgenders out of women’s sports, what does this look like in practice when 1 coach points across the field and says “not a woman at birth”, what happens next?

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There is a real easy solution to this problem and it’s not whining that only Republicans are making this an issue

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You’re tilting at windmills*

Posted by GMAW User icon on July 25, 2026, 12:56:09, in reply to "No, no, its incredibly simple, when a parent complains they're allowed to pull pants down*"

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Like if you want to keep transgenders out of women’s sports, what does this look like in practice when 1 coach points across the field and says “not a woman at birth”, what happens next?

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There is a real easy solution to this problem and it’s not whining that only Republicans are making this an issue

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Said no one ever. *

Posted by haighter User icon on July 25, 2026, 12:46:14, in reply to "No, no, its incredibly simple, when a parent complains they're allowed to pull pants down*"

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Like if you want to keep transgenders out of women’s sports, what does this look like in practice when 1 coach points across the field and says “not a woman at birth”, what happens next?

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There is a real easy solution to this problem and it’s not whining that only Republicans are making this an issue

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It's the one place where I find myself completely confused by the discourse.

Posted by OrangeSox User icon on July 25, 2026, 11:34:21, in reply to "On another women’s sports note, I’m so glad Dems have learned absolutely nothing"

Women have fought like hell for the right to play sports, and now finally people are paying attention and giving them credit for being incredible athletes. Why should they have to cede ground to trans athletes? It just makes no sense to me.

Yes, but they should fight back about the “locker room” stuff

Posted by snipes824 User icon on July 25, 2026, 11:27:40, in reply to "On another women’s sports note, I’m so glad Dems have learned absolutely nothing"

You want to protect women’s competition? All for it. You want to frame this as letting predators in the locker room, no.

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Especially when the party trying to push it has guys like Denny Hastert and Jim Jordan. *

Posted by doubledown User icon on July 27, 2026, 8:38:32, in reply to "Yes, but they should fight back about the “locker room” stuff"

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You want to protect women’s competition? All for it. You want to frame this as letting predators in the locker room, no.

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Also, should fight back against implication that trans women are just doing it to get an easier win.

Posted by tvillini User icon on July 25, 2026, 12:00:10, in reply to "Yes, but they should fight back about the “locker room” stuff"

Like, “they wouldn’t be trans if they didn’t see a path to win a state title easier.”

I think someone can be concurrently trans AND an athlete.

The implication is laughably stupid. On the other hand, if you are a trans woman dominating women’s

Posted by GMAW User icon on July 25, 2026, 12:02:08, in reply to "Also, should fight back against implication that trans women are just doing it to get an easier win."

sports, you’re an asshole.

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Like, “they wouldn’t be trans if they didn’t see a path to win a state title easier.”

I think someone can be concurrently trans AND an athlete.

And how many of those can you name?

Posted by larue33 User icon on July 25, 2026, 12:26:51, in reply to "The implication is laughably stupid. On the other hand, if you are a trans woman dominating women’s"

How many trans girls are competing as average or worse athletes in school or club sports?

I expect both numbers are vanishingly small, but one is probably a couple orders of magnitude larger.

If it’s so vanishingly small, prohibiting it is a no-brainer

Posted by GMAW User icon on July 25, 2026, 12:57:44, in reply to "And how many of those can you name?"

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How many trans girls are competing as average or worse athletes in school or club sports?

I expect both numbers are vanishingly small, but one is probably a couple orders of magnitude larger.

So, fuck their rights if there's only a few of them.

Posted by larue33 User icon on July 25, 2026, 13:12:37, in reply to "If it’s so vanishingly small, prohibiting it is a no-brainer"

It doesn' matter where we give ground, Republicans will demand more. If trans people have to exist, they need to be invisible. Accomplish that, then homosexuals need to go the same way.

This administration is actively working to erase Black people from American history and American life. I'm done with it, not giving up an inch.

It's their "right" to compete in women's sports? *

Posted by Tuscy User icon on July 25, 2026, 14:57:03, in reply to "So, fuck their rights if there's only a few of them."

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"I wouldn't mind the DP here." - jumpingdan

My question is how would Lia Thomas react if the NCAA simply awarded two first place trophies.*

Posted by complainant User icon on July 25, 2026, 16:05:34, in reply to "It's their "right" to compete in women's sports? *"

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I would also like to know why it's so important to police "deadnaming" in the Lia Thomas case and

Posted by complainant User icon on July 25, 2026, 16:13:27, in reply to "My question is how would Lia Thomas react if the NCAA simply awarded two first place trophies.*"

similar cases.

Wikipedia generally lists a person's birth name, such as Leslie Lynch King.

I'm generally in sympathy with RVA and larue, but on the other hand, forcing people to use plural pronouns when talking about individuals is a tactic that's practically begging for a fight.

I suspect a lot of young, fragile people are drawn to the pugilistic protection afforded by the online trans community. I'm certainly not going to debate Them.

Protection? Lolololol

Posted by Taz User icon on July 27, 2026, 19:22:49, in reply to "I would also like to know why it's so important to police "deadnaming" in the Lia Thomas case and "

Lololololol

Jfc

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Sometimes you just need to yeet a bobcat *

Being an Illini fan is a goddamn curse.*

Pretty much, yes. Moral purity doesn’t win elections, which is why Obama opposed gay marriage

Posted by DT User icon on July 25, 2026, 13:41:38, in reply to "So, fuck their rights if there's only a few of them."

Hopefully the population will eventually come around on trans issues, but until they do, then absolutely candidates should be willing to sacrifice the interests of a few dozen individuals in order to protect 350 million people.

Yes, the GOP wants to erode minority rights all across the board. Which is exactly why the Democrats need to be smart about where to make stands and where to compromise principles in the face of electoral realities.

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Think about how long the civil rights movement and gay rights

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:20:27, in reply to "Pretty much, yes. Moral purity doesn’t win elections, which is why Obama opposed gay marriage "

and now you're asking people in a couple of years to accept that gender is merely a social construct? GTFO with that nonsense. If gender in sports didn't matter, we wouldn't have men's and women's sports. It's that simple.

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I understand that viewpoint, not buying it.

Posted by larue33 User icon on July 25, 2026, 13:49:30, in reply to "Pretty much, yes. Moral purity doesn’t win elections, which is why Obama opposed gay marriage "

If a majority of voters are willing to embrace fascist authoritarianism in order to keep trans women from playing sports (and that may well be the case), then we're fucked anyway. If I'm going to lose, I'll lose fighting for the right things.

Serious question

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:23:22, in reply to "I understand that viewpoint, not buying it. "

Let's put the bigots and homophobes aside for a second Fuck those people, I hope they all choke on their own vomit. Can we agree that there is a sensible argument to be had that while someone would believe in trans rights and trans people's rights to exist, and yet believe that trans athletes have an unfair advantage for obvious biological reasons, and thus should not be allowed to compete? Is that a viewpoint you can at least acknowledge?

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Sure, I think there are people who hold that view who aren't bigots.

Posted by larue33 User icon on July 28, 2026, 3:55:17, in reply to "Serious question"

Those people aren't the problem, or shouldn't be.

Allowing transwomen to compete in women’s sports is the electoral hill you’re willing to die on?

Posted by GMAW User icon on July 27, 2026, 8:24:56, in reply to "I understand that viewpoint, not buying it. "

You’re right: we’re fucked.

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Pretty much fucked.

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:06:02, in reply to "Allowing transwomen to compete in women’s sports is the electoral hill you’re willing to die on?"

The two term president first elected in 2016, then re- elected again in 2024 after openly soliciting votes and fomenting a coup to prevent the peaceful transition of power, and now trying to undermine confidence in free fair elections outside should have told you.

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

This is who we are

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:27:34, in reply to "Pretty much fucked."

if we don't figure out a way to win back the white working class voter, we're absolutely fucked.

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That's not exactly what I'm saying.

Posted by larue33 User icon on July 27, 2026, 8:42:55, in reply to "Allowing transwomen to compete in women’s sports is the electoral hill you’re willing to die on?"

If there is a significant number of people who look at Republicans sending innocent people to foreign torture prisons, murdering South American fishermen for no reason, sending an army of vicious thugs into our streets to terrorize people, and a hundred other despicable things, then conclude they just can't vote for Democrats who might allow trans women to play sports, then we are indeed fucked.

And I think about 99% of the cases of trans girls/women playing sports are of no consequence at all. The rest of it could be worked out by people of good will. I feel better on the side of expanding rights and against the people who gin up hate to win elections.

I'm not defending their actions, because they are pieces of shit

Posted by Sounder User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:30:52, in reply to "That's not exactly what I'm saying."

but I think at the end of the day, the average Trump voter has spent years seeing the political system try to help other people and do absolutely nothing to try to help make their lives better, and thus they're pissed, hateful, and vindictive. Trump absolutely feeds off of that.

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Testify*

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:07:07, in reply to "That's not exactly what I'm saying."

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"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

Preach Brother, preach.

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 25, 2026, 14:55:14, in reply to "I understand that viewpoint, not buying it. "

If a handful of transgender athletes in sports is the downfall of the our representative democracy, then we all deserve the downfall we're gonna get.

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

I think many people don’t find it a principled viewpoint to let transgender play girls sports

Posted by CoronaTheirAss User icon on July 25, 2026, 13:59:47, in reply to "I understand that viewpoint, not buying it. "

The reasons to separate sports are for biological differences of sex. Not for gender reasons*

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That's fine, but not really relevant.

Posted by larue33 User icon on July 25, 2026, 15:31:01, in reply to "I think many people don’t find it a principled viewpoint to let transgender play girls sports"

Unless the issue is of such overwhelming importance to you that it determines your vote.

And in which case the importance is solely that trans people shouldn't play

Posted by RVA User icon on July 25, 2026, 15:36:15, in reply to "That's fine, but not really relevant. "

Because in all other aspects a vote for Republicans is against boosting womens sports

This as well. The fact that the same "Guardians of Women Sport"...

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 27, 2026, 11:16:13, in reply to "And in which case the importance is solely that trans people shouldn't play"

...are the same folks that deride and ridicule everything WNBA not called Sophie Cunningham is just the spot on hypocrisy you get with modern Conservatives.

"Do I care about women's sports? Not a lick.

Is it an opportunity to repress and ridicule others simply trying to live their lives in a way that gives them fulfillment, but in a way that I don't personally agree with? Sign me up."

"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

It’s principled. Just not correctly. *

Posted by haighter User icon on July 25, 2026, 15:22:55, in reply to "I think many people don’t find it a principled viewpoint to let transgender play girls sports"

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The reasons to separate sports are for biological differences of sex. Not for gender reasons*

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What is the principle?I don’t get it *

Posted by CoronaTheirAss User icon on July 25, 2026, 15:26:35, in reply to "It’s principled. Just not correctly. *"

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The reasons to separate sports are for biological differences of sex. Not for gender reasons*

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Accommodations must be codified for everyone conceivable self-identified cohort. *

Posted by haighter User icon on July 25, 2026, 15:35:27, in reply to "What is the principle?I don’t get it *"

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The reasons to separate sports are for biological differences of sex. Not for gender reasons*

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Ha that actually sounds right*

Posted by CoronaTheirAss User icon on July 25, 2026, 15:39:39, in reply to "Accommodations must be codified for everyone conceivable self-identified cohort. *"

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The reasons to separate sports are for biological differences of sex. Not for gender reasons*

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Might even argue that it’s SO small that the juice isn’t worth the proverbial squeeze. *

Posted by haighter User icon on July 25, 2026, 12:43:12, in reply to "And how many of those can you name?"

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How many trans girls are competing as average or worse athletes in school or club sports?

I expect both numbers are vanishingly small, but one is probably a couple orders of magnitude larger.

Of course. One is transphobic and assumes all trans women are predators

Posted by GMAW User icon on July 25, 2026, 11:43:16, in reply to "Yes, but they should fight back about the “locker room” stuff"

The other undermines the entire purpose of women’s sports.

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You want to protect women’s competition? All for it. You want to frame this as letting predators in the locker room, no.

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+1*

Posted by Tuscy User icon on July 25, 2026, 11:25:36, in reply to "On another women’s sports note, I’m so glad Dems have learned absolutely nothing"

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"I wouldn't mind the DP here." - jumpingdan

Their commissioner appears to be totally incapable of handling the spotlight and scrutiny*

Posted by John Coctostan User icon on July 25, 2026, 10:01:40, in reply to "Never has a sports entity shown themselves to be less equipped to handle success than the WNBA"

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“Inartful”.*

Posted by opossum jenkins User icon on July 25, 2026, 9:05:12, in reply to "Never has a sports entity shown themselves to be less equipped to handle success than the WNBA"

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LOL, same publication tried to go back to the well.

Posted by OB25 User icon on July 24, 2026, 21:04:07, in reply to "Never has a sports entity shown themselves to be less equipped to handle success than the WNBA"

alphabet copy paste

When something is happening, young people like to say it’s “lit.”

Des Moines….woof*

Posted by KCWildcat User icon on July 24, 2026, 21:18:25, in reply to "LOL, same publication tried to go back to the well."

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alphabet copy paste

Clark’s tech for allegedly saying only “scoreboard” makes no sense

Posted by Potomac User icon on July 23, 2026, 16:26:55, in reply to "Never has a sports entity shown themselves to be less equipped to handle success than the WNBA"

ESPN.com. Her team was way ahead, and that was her response to some words from her defender.

That’s nothing and natural. Reminds me of the Brazil World Cup game where Neymar scored a late PK and then jawboned the keeper, whose team was ahead. My reaction was “look at the scoreboard, fool.” If the GK said something like that, no problem.

The Tent Frazier rule *

Posted by ATL User icon on July 25, 2026, 12:52:53, in reply to "Clark’s tech for allegedly saying only “scoreboard” makes no sense"

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“We are old and tired and just want to be taken care of.” - Republican voter, Dec. 2024.

onion?*

Posted by Ari Gold User icon on July 23, 2026, 13:11:11, in reply to "Never has a sports entity shown themselves to be less equipped to handle success than the WNBA"

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I would have guessed the unfunny Babylon Bee would be more your speed, dumbazz.*

Posted by KingTalkyTiki User icon on July 23, 2026, 13:33:48, in reply to "onion?*"

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"You must own the honor of being the whitest, military vet, fat, multiple state property owner but most of all the one who hates their own country the most in our country."

That is truly unbelievable*

Posted by illini21 User icon on July 23, 2026, 10:40:41, in reply to "Never has a sports entity shown themselves to be less equipped to handle success than the WNBA"

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There are no more "real media outlets." Everything is engagement bait now. *

Posted by doubledown User icon on July 23, 2026, 9:29:02, in reply to "Never has a sports entity shown themselves to be less equipped to handle success than the WNBA"

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[ The Deuce ]