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A largely undocumented Johor tiara Posted by Beth on August 21, 2020, 7:26 pm Since the last coronation in Malaysian state of Johor, many of us are now familiar with the State Diadem worn by the Queens of Johor (formerly referred to as the Sultanas of Johor). I am referring to this jewel. Since its creation, possibly in 1886 when the crown of Johor was made, it has been used for the formal investiture of the Sultanas and Queens. For the date see https://kemahkotaan.johor.gov.my/alat-istiadat-kebesaran/mahkota-kerajaan-mahkota-permaisuri/?lang=en It was used for the crowning of Sultana Helen, wife of the Sultan Ibrahim in 1931, as was the extraordinary diamond necklace, which all successive Sultanas/Queens have worn for their coronation. and other Sultanas. For example this coronation in 1960. My interest in tracing a second grand tiara/diadem commenced after I found references (and images) in the UK press to the Sultana Helen wearing a massive, striking tiara with the state symbols of Johor. Sultana Helen, was formerly Mrs Helen Wilson, a Scottish lady who married Sultan Ibrahim in 1930. They divorced in early 1938. Yet, the photos didn't show the state coronation diadem. Sultana Helen at the 1937 coronation of George VI in 1937 At her Court presentation before George V and Queen Mary in 1931 For a modern image of this tiara see https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/269301252704133385/ This modern photo suggests that the tiara still existed, but I have no indication about when the modern photo was taken. Yet, there are some significant difference between this photo and those of the earlier Sultanas wearing the tiara, so I have asked myself if it is the same tiara. Perhaps some modification were made. I would like to see some evidence that it is actually the same tiara. The earliest image of this tiara I could find was on Sultana Zubaidah. Born Cecilia Catherina Lange, she was the daughter of a Dane and a Chinese lady. She married the Sultan Abu Bakar in 1870 and was the mother of Sultan Ibrahim, the husband of Sultana Helen, Sultana Zubaidah Some sites I have seen date the photo above to 1900, but it seems to me that there is no substantive evidence to prove that date. If she died in 1891 as these press reports seem to indicate, then the tiara photo has to date before that. One of the interesting questions is which jewellery firm might have made the tiara. Was it a Europen firm? Was it a firm somewhere in Malaysia or any other part of Asia? I suspect that the tiara might have been made by the London based firm of Benson's. What I think is an official website for the State of Johor states that the crown (and probably consort's diadem) was made by Benson's in 1886. See https://kemahkotaan.johor.gov.my/alat-istiadat-kebesaran/mahkota-kerajaan-mahkota-permaisuri/?lang=en As early as 1878 the firm of Benson was advertising that they held a warrant from the person who was then called the Maharajah of Johore. After Sultan Abu Bakar was granted permission by the UK government to call himself Sultan in 1886, the firm started to advertise that it was the crown jeweller to the Sultan. 1886 Ad Given this, I think there is a high probability that Benson's may have created the grand tiara worn by Sultana Helen at the 1937 coronation and other events -- but, of course, it is not definite proof. I wish I could find some verification of when the photo of Sultana Zubaidah was taken. Unfortunately, her name rarely appears in the UK press, and I suspect that, even when her husband was in the UK and attended various court events, she did not appear. If anyone speaks Bahasa Melayu, I would be grateful if any additional information could be supplied.

Re: A largely undocumented Johor tiara Posted by 992234177 on August 21, 2020, 8:01 pm, in reply to "A largely undocumented Johor tiara" I wonder if the tiara image is actually a photograph. There is something a bit off about it, a bit too perfect and even for it to be real.

Re: A largely undocumented Johor tiara Posted by Kongetro on August 21, 2020, 8:16 pm, in reply to "Re: A largely undocumented Johor tiara" I actually thought the same 992234177. Something about the base also, like the small circles / rings look like they should have had stones set in them, but it actually looks rather "flat", like there's nothing there apart from a blank surface. Not sure I explain myself well, but to me it looks like a drawing or a created image, rather than a photograph. Hmm.. Having said that I must say that I love the subject. Those are two very grand tiaras and it would be wonderful if the second one is also still in the collection and that we will get to see it worn at some point. Previous Message I wonder if the tiara image is actually a photograph. There is something a bit off about it, a bit too perfect and even for it to be real. Kongetro To visit my website Regal Events use this link: https://regalevents913271078.wordpress.com/

Re: A largely undocumented Johor tiara Posted by Beth on August 21, 2020, 8:18 pm, in reply to "Re: A largely undocumented Johor tiara" I don't have any firm ideas about that 992234177. All that I am sure about is that the modern photo of the tiara does not fully match with the tiara as seen in the photos of the two earlier Sultanas. I wish I could find high quality photos of the tiara as worn in the earlier period -- or some reliable information that the tiara was modified at some stage. Previous Message I wonder if the tiara image is actually a photograph. There is something a bit off about it, a bit too perfect and even for it to be real.

Re: A largely undocumented Johor tiara Posted by mauriz on August 21, 2020, 9:36 pm, in reply to "Re: A largely undocumented Johor tiara" I think the modern "photo" is a digital mockup to illustrate the tiara's design. The outlines of the individual elements are generated, and digital images of diamonds in different sizes are inserted. If one looks closely, it seems the tiara was remodeled between Sultanah Helen's court presentation in 1931 and her appearance at the coronation of King George VI and Queen Elizabeth in 1937. At that time the outer elements and the smaller intermediate elements have swapped positions. The mockup is an illustration of the design in 1937.

Later appearances Posted by mauriz on August 21, 2020, 10:21 pm, in reply to "Re: A largely undocumented Johor tiara" The tiara was later worn by Sultanah Nora, the second wife of Sultanah Helen's step-son, Sultan Ismail (1895–1981). They were married in November 1977. Sultanah Nora's sister Zanariah was married to Sultan Ismail's successor Iskandar, and with her we get a better photo of the tiara in question.

Re: A largely undocumented Johor tiara Posted by Beth on August 24, 2020, 6:00 am, in reply to "Re: A largely undocumented Johor tiara" Thank you Mauriz. You have spotted details which, with the benefit of your insight, I realise should have been obvious to me.

Re: A largely undocumented Johor tiara Posted by OmerH on August 21, 2020, 10:53 pm, in reply to "Re: A largely undocumented Johor tiara" The elements in between the palmets/fans seem to have been removed at a certain stage.

Re: A largely undocumented Johor tiara Posted by Dave on August 22, 2020, 1:16 am, in reply to "A largely undocumented Johor tiara" A very good and external topic as we mostly stick to European and British royal/ aristocratic jewels. I guess we may see most of these jewels again at the very next British Coronation, hopefully we get the close ups we so desire on here. I love the tiara, it does have a western design. Regards, Dave. Previous Message Since the last coronation in Malaysian state of Johor, many of us are now familiar with the State Diadem worn by the Queens of Johor (formerly referred to as the Sultanas of Johor). I am referring to this jewel. Since its creation, possibly in 1886 when the crown of Johor was made, it has been used for the formal investiture of the Sultanas and Queens. For the date see https://kemahkotaan.johor.gov.my/alat-istiadat-kebesaran/mahkota-kerajaan-mahkota-permaisuri/?lang=en It was used for the crowning of Sultana Helen, wife of the Sultan Ibrahim in 1931, as was the extraordinary diamond necklace, which all successive Sultanas/Queens have worn for their coronation. and other Sultanas. For example this coronation in 1960. My interest in tracing a second grand tiara/diadem commenced after I found references (and images) in the UK press to the Sultana Helen wearing a massive, striking tiara with the state symbols of Johor. Sultana Helen, was formerly Mrs Helen Wilson, a Scottish lady who married Sultan Ibrahim in 1930. They divorced in early 1938. Yet, the photos didn't show the state coronation diadem. Sultana Helen at the 1937 coronation of George VI in 1937 At her Court presentation before George V and Queen Mary in 1931 For a modern image of this tiara see https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/269301252704133385/ This modern photo suggests that the tiara still existed, but I have no indication about when the modern photo was taken. Yet, there are some significant difference between this photo and those of the earlier Sultanas wearing the tiara, so I have asked myself if it is the same tiara. Perhaps some modification were made. I would like to see some evidence that it is actually the same tiara. The earliest image of this tiara I could find was on Sultana Zubaidah. Born Cecilia Catherina Lange, she was the daughter of a Dane and a Chinese lady. She married the Sultan Abu Bakar in 1870 and was the mother of Sultan Ibrahim, the husband of Sultana Helen, Sultana Zubaidah Some sites I have seen date the photo above to 1900, but it seems to me that there is no substantive evidence to prove that date. If she died in 1891 as these press reports seem to indicate, then the tiara photo has to date before that. One of the interesting questions is which jewellery firm might have made the tiara. Was it a Europen firm? Was it a firm somewhere in Malaysia or any other part of Asia? I suspect that the tiara might have been made by the London based firm of Benson's. What I think is an official website for the State of Johor states that the crown (and probably consort's diadem) was made by Benson's in 1886. See https://kemahkotaan.johor.gov.my/alat-istiadat-kebesaran/mahkota-kerajaan-mahkota-permaisuri/?lang=en As early as 1878 the firm of Benson was advertising that they held a warrant from the person who was then called the Maharajah of Johore. After Sultan Abu Bakar was granted permission by the UK government to call himself Sultan in 1886, the firm started to advertise that it was the crown jeweller to the Sultan. 1886 Ad Given this, I think there is a high probability that Benson's may have created the grand tiara worn by Sultana Helen at the 1937 coronation and other events -- but, of course, it is not definite proof. I wish I could find some verification of when the photo of Sultana Zubaidah was taken. Unfortunately, her name rarely appears in the UK press, and I suspect that, even when her husband was in the UK and attended various court events, she did not appear. If anyone speaks Bahasa Melayu, I would be grateful if any additional information could be supplied.

The second tiara is still in existence or was until at least 2004 Posted by Janet on August 23, 2020, 9:59 pm, in reply to "A largely undocumented Johor tiara" it was worn by the previous Sultana of Johor, the late Sultanah Zanariah and as recently as 2004 by Sultanah Zanariah to the wedding of the Crown Prince of Brunei. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunku_Puan_Zanariah. As to its current whereabouts, I don't know. However following her husband's death in 2009, the Sultanah was in conflict with her step-son the new and current Sultan as he instigated a situation where he divorced his dead father from his stepmother and backdated the divorce prior to his father's death!!!! I suppose it is possible that Sultanah Zanariah retained the tiara after her husband's death or it has passed to one of her children. This is a great link showing the various Sultanas/Queens of Johor wearing this amazing beautiful tiara. While the current Sultan of Johor and his son and heir are not particularly reputable individuals, it would be a shame if this historic and beautiful tiara was lost to the main line of the Royal Family. http://radin87.blogspot.com/2010/01/sultanah-of-johor.html I suspect however that it is in the ownership of the main line but just hasn't been worn. It was worn at the Coronation of Elizabeth II by Sultana Marcella. I think with this picture you can appreciate the scale of it. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sultan-and-Lady-Marcella-Ibrahim-of-Johor-Photo-signed-dated-1953-/382509747439 Sultana Marcella also wore the State Diadem on occasion. https://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcella_Mendl

Update..The current Queen of Johor has worn the second tiara Posted by Janet on August 23, 2020, 10:06 pm, in reply to "The second tiara is still in existence or was until at least 2004" She wore it to her husband's Coronation banquet in 2015. https://kemahkotaan.johor.gov.my/galllery/galeri-majlis-santapan-diraja/?lang=en https://kemahkotaan.johor.gov.my/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/03-BM-Santapan-DiRaja-1024x614.jpg

Re: Update..The current Queen of Johor has worn the second tiara Posted by Beth on August 24, 2020, 6:09 am, in reply to "Update..The current Queen of Johor has worn the second tiara" Great research Janet! It is interesting to see that this tiara still appears to be considered the grandest in the royal family. (I understand from the government website that the diadem worn at the coronation of the queens is only used for such occasions, not as an "every day" tiara.) As Janet said the photo from the 1953 UK coronation does highlight the size of this jewel. Thanks!

Re: Johor Tiara at Queen's Coronation Posted by The Royal Watcher on August 24, 2020, 5:02 pm, in reply to "The second tiara is still in existence or was until at least 2004" It's really a delight to read all the recent threads on the Nepalese, Malay, and Egyptian Royal jewels, and I spot Sultana Marcella in another photo from the Queen's Coronation!

Tiara Mania's post on the Johor ruby tiara Posted by Janet on August 24, 2020, 5:17 am, in reply to "A largely undocumented Johor tiara" On Tiara Mania's fantastic site, there is a series of great posts about jewels worn by the Malaysian royal women. Johor has a fabulous collection, from what I can see the current Queen has access to 6 impressive tiaras and her only daughter also has a tiara, which may just be a loan from the main line. The modern ruby tiara of the Queen of Johor is very impressive but I was wondering whether the tiara is really a ruby tiara. The thing that got me thinking was the picture is airbrushed within an inch of its life and the picture almost look like it has been colourised in the way you sometimes see old pictures. The Queen looks like a different person. Then when looking closely the rubies are really quite huge! Rubies of that size are rare and therefore extremely, extremely valuable. The Royal Family of Johor is very, very wealthy but nonetheless the value of this tiara would be huge given the number of large rubies it contains. Looking at a picture of the Queen's only daughter Princess Aminah wearing the same tiara, in what is not an airbrushed picture, the colour of the stones are quite different to how they appear when seen in the airbrushed photo, they look purple/pinkish, which got me thinking they could be amethyst or pink sapphires or topazes. Views/Thoughts? All pictures are from the TM website.

Re: Tiara Mania's post on the Johor ruby tiara Posted by Beth on August 24, 2020, 6:17 am, in reply to "Tiara Mania's post on the Johor ruby tiara" Thanks to Tiara Mania for the quality photos and having identified this tiara. In contrast to Janet, I don't think that the individual rubies are large -- for example in each of the pear shaped elements in the tiara, I think there are 3 separate rubies. And I am 99.99% sure that the stones will be high quality rubies. We are talking about an Asian royal family with enormous wealth.

Re: Tiara Mania's post on the Johor ruby tiara Posted by Janet on August 24, 2020, 6:29 am, in reply to "Re: Tiara Mania's post on the Johor ruby tiara" I just can't agree these are rubies, the stones of the tiara and the matching necklace are very, very pink. Princess Aminah wore the parure at her father's Coronation in 2015, I have been trying to find a better view of her but not had much success thus far.

Countdown to Coronation Posted by Janet on August 24, 2020, 6:34 am, in reply to "Re: Tiara Mania's post on the Johor ruby tiara" If anyone is interested there is a two part series on Youtube dedicated to the Coronation of the Sultan and Queen of Johor. Right at the end of episode 2 you get pictures of the Royal Family and various other Malaysian royals in their jewels. It is in English and includes interviews with the Royal Family. Previous Message I just can't agree these are rubies, the stones of the tiara and the matching necklace are very, very pink. Princess Aminah wore the parure at her father's Coronation in 2015, I have been trying to find a better view of her but not had much success thus far.

Re: Countdown to Coronation Posted by Beth on August 24, 2020, 6:53 am, in reply to "Countdown to Coronation" Thanks Janet. I will have a wonderful time watching it.

Jewels passing through Malaysian royal houses... Posted by Janet on August 24, 2020, 7:30 am, in reply to "Re: Countdown to Coronation" I found an interesting article. I am reliant on google translate but you get a good idea of what is being said and it is the pictures that I am interested in. It deals with the tiara owned by the Royal Family of Perak, from which the Queen of Johor comes. The late Queen of Perak gave her tiara to her daughter the Queen of Johor and it appears that this tiara is the one that the Queen of Johor wears most often, although her daughter-in-law also wears it now. Interestingly, the late Queen of Perak is wearing a diamond and pearl necklace, which to me looks remarkably similar to the one now worn by her granddaughter-in-law the Crown Princess of Johor to the Johor coronation in 2015, to which a tiara has been added. https://www.orangperak.com/tiara-raja-perempuan-muzwin-permaisuri-perak-yang-ke-33.html

Re: Jewels passing through Malaysian royal houses... Posted by Beth on August 24, 2020, 6:07 pm, in reply to "Jewels passing through Malaysian royal houses..." Thanks for the video link Janet. I enjoyed watching both parts, but especially the later sections of the second part when we could see lots of jewels. Congratulations on your find Janet! And for sharing with us. I am sure you are correct and that the necklace now worn by the Crown Princess is the same one worn by the Queen of Perak. The earrings also seem to be the same. I took several screen shots from the second part; these were the clearest I got of the pearl and diamond necklace.

Re: Jewels passing through Malaysian royal houses... Posted by Tiara Mania on August 25, 2020, 2:30 am, in reply to "Re: Jewels passing through Malaysian royal houses..." Thank you for the video. I hadn't seen it before and it certain offered clearer views of some of the jewels. Che Puan Khaleeda also wore the pearl parure at the installation of Sultan Muhammad V of Kelantan as the King of Malaysia in 2017 but unfortunately she's extremely out of focus in the photos.

We need to crowdfund a good photographer... Posted by Janet on August 25, 2020, 2:37 am, in reply to "Re: Jewels passing through Malaysian royal houses..." and send it to the next Malaysian royal tiara event!!!! Previous Message Thank you for the video. I hadn't seen it before and it certain offered clearer views of some of the jewels. Che Puan Khaleeda also wore the pearl parure at the installation of Sultan Muhammad V of Kelantan as the King of Malaysia in 2017 but unfortunately she's extremely out of focus in the photos.

Re: We need to crowdfund a good photographer... Posted by Tiara Mania on August 25, 2020, 2:47 am, in reply to "We need to crowdfund a good photographer..." Yes! I'll pitch in!

Re: Countdown to Coronation Posted by Dave on August 24, 2020, 8:02 am, in reply to "Countdown to Coronation" Incredibly a very down to earth man who is to be the next Sultan and has so much wealth. Thanks for the video, it has helped to increase my knowledge and understanding about this royal family and about Asian royals in general. As for the ruby tiara, I agree with Beth, I can see three small ruby stones in each element of the tiara, and I do believe them to be authentic rubies, no reason to think they are not if one goes but this family's wealth. Regards, Dave. Previous Message If anyone is interested there is a two part series on Youtube dedicated to the Coronation of the Sultan and Queen of Johor. Right at the end of episode 2 you get pictures of the Royal Family and various other Malaysian royals in their jewels. It is in English and includes interviews with the Royal Family. Previous Message I just can't agree these are rubies, the stones of the tiara and the matching necklace are very, very pink. Princess Aminah wore the parure at her father's Coronation in 2015, I have been trying to find a better view of her but not had much success thus far.

Re: Tiara Mania's post on the Johor ruby tiara Posted by Tiara Mania on August 25, 2020, 2:14 am, in reply to "Re: Tiara Mania's post on the Johor ruby tiara" I do think that they are rubies because of the way there are several stones put together to make what looks like a bigger stone. If they were garnets, spinels, or some other stone then the wouldn't have had to do that. Since I wrote the post I also found a picture of Crown Princess Khaleeda wearing the tiara but it doesn't help us in regards to getting a better look at the tiara. Also here's the full version of Permaisuri Raja Zarith Sofiah wearing the parure

Re: Tiara Mania's post on the Johor ruby tiara Posted by Janet on August 25, 2020, 2:24 am, in reply to "Re: Tiara Mania's post on the Johor ruby tiara" Thank you for the further pictures. Whichever stone it is, I hope we can all agree it is a very beautiful parure! I am just grateful that some royal families are purchasing some important modern pieces! This is one of my favourite new pieces, along with the emerald parure of Sultanah Kalsom. I just wish we had better quality pictures of the Malaysian royal women. The photos of the Malaysian royal ladies at events are all always sadly of such low quality, which is such a shame as Malaysia appears to have more tiara events than most of the European monarchies put together each year.

Sapphire Bracelets Posted by OmerH on August 25, 2020, 5:13 pm, in reply to "Re: Tiara Mania's post on the Johor ruby tiara" Does anyone have any info about the sapphire bracelets the Queen of Johor wears here?? They are HUGE!!!

Re: Sapphire Bracelets Posted by Tiara Mania on August 26, 2020, 12:42 am, in reply to "Sapphire Bracelets" I think they are part of the regalia of Johor. Sultanah Helen, 5th wife of Sultan Ibrahim Sultanah Fawzia/Marcella, 6th wife of Sultan Ibrahim Sultanah Aminah, wife of Sultan Ismail Raja Zarith Sofia, wife of Sultan Ibrahim

Re: Sapphire Bracelets Posted by Beth on August 26, 2020, 6:55 am, in reply to "Re: Sapphire Bracelets" Malluu of RJWMB discovered in 2015 that the bracelets were made in 1935. See Malluu's post https://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/msg/archive/1427326459.html Unfortunately, the link provided doesn't work any longer. Certainly when Sultana Helen was crowned in 1931 she was not wearing the bracelets. 1931 But she was wearing them for the 1937 coronation of George VI 1936 one journalist described them as the largest bracelets she had ever seen. The sapphires, which were pendant to part of the necklace, were also noted. The sapphire pendant was also worn with what looks like a diamond riviere. One commentator described it when worn by Sultana Helen to the opera in 1937 as --

Re: Sapphire Bracelets Posted by OmerH on August 26, 2020, 5:39 pm, in reply to "Re: Sapphire Bracelets" Many thanks Tiara Mania and Beth for your responses. I looked through Mallu's description in 2015 and if my calculations are correct then each bracrlet contains over 150 carats of diamonds and 70 carats of sapphires!!! No wonder they were described by the press as the largest bracelets ever seen!!! However even more fascinating is that Sultanah Helen is wearing each sapphire bracelet with an additional large diamond bracelet for the coronation in 1937!!!!

Re: Sapphire Bracelets - better view Posted by Laurent F on September 2, 2020, 7:07 pm, in reply to "Sapphire Bracelets" Here is a clearer view of the breathtaking art-deco sapphire bracelets in 2015, see the ruby on the center of the tiara !

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