Religion and Ethics and Health BBS

Religion and Ethics and Health BBS
[ Religion and Ethics and Health BBS ]

Meanwhile in Portland

Posted by scott on September 27, 2025, 4:25 pm

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPHK-XKkfnf/?igsh=MTdwbzQ2bDhvanBnZQ==

Trump troops tend to triggered troublemakers.

The most dangerous thing in any US city right now is ICE.

Posted by KR on September 29, 2025, 5:11 pm, in reply to "Meanwhile in Portland "

The people that protest and disrupt them are heroes.

Sedition !!

Posted by GOG on October 1, 2025, 5:26 am, in reply to "The most dangerous thing in any US city right now is ICE."

Go ICE.

Yep

Posted by trish on September 30, 2025, 2:49 pm, in reply to "The most dangerous thing in any US city right now is ICE."

If I ever see them in my area will be immediatly posting their location online.....

Posted by KR on September 30, 2025, 3:34 pm, in reply to "Yep"

...I want to make sure their job is as difficult as possible.

Why don't we just make it easier to immigrate legally?

Posted by Ken C on October 1, 2025, 11:41 am, in reply to "If I ever see them in my area will be immediatly posting their location online....."

What is the real problem here? Are the immigration laws the problem, or are the law enforcers the problem?

and dispite what people may think that's perfectly legal

Posted by Trish on October 1, 2025, 7:27 am, in reply to "If I ever see them in my area will be immediatly posting their location online....."

just like having a speed trap monitor

Good. GPS will give them where to pick you up.

Posted by GOG on October 1, 2025, 5:28 am, in reply to "If I ever see them in my area will be immediatly posting their location online....."

That is known as sedition.

Posted by DFM on September 30, 2025, 10:49 am, in reply to "The most dangerous thing in any US city right now is ICE."

Sedition is speech or actions that are intended to incite rebellion, insurrection, or other forms of public disorder against a government or its authority.

The colonist were guilty of sedition against the British Empire.

Posted by Dancing Digits on October 1, 2025, 9:07 am, in reply to "That is known as sedition."

Sedition is NOT to be taken lightly, nor engaged in casually. It is a very very serious business. Our Founding Fathers did recognize a need for it. And we are free of British rule because of it.

Yes the Declaration of Independence is not the foundation document of our law, but it does explain the thinking of our Founding Fathers:

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

Am I suggesting rebellion now? No. It is my hopes that things can change for the better peacefully. Peaceful change is always preferable to violent change. . . always. Will that change happen peacefully - will our government listen to We the People? Hard to say with 100% certainty - if past behavior is any indication of future, I would say no they will not listen, not as long as they think they can get away with what they want to do for themselves.

The longer we wait to pressure the government to change, the longer the danger runs that the power they grab will continue to become a set pattern of behavior moving forward. Once rights are gone, they are harder to get back.

Rebellion and the overthrow of a government bring about chaos and turmoil to a nation and its people. In today's world, it also leaves a nation vulnerable to outside hostile nations/invaders. Like I said - its serious business and NOT to be engaged in lightly. There are serious problems that arise from it. There is the potential for people dying due to the conflict.

Governments are, most naturally, thoroughly against it. We do have a self-serving government. Changing our laws takes forever, if they even happen at all. And elections have become jokes. Thus, doing things the legal way have consequences too. Those in government who actually do care about the People are at an extreme disadvantage. They have to swim uphill all the time against the corrupt.

Again, I am not suggesting sedition. But it did, once upon a time, have good reasons for it and it gave us our freedom.

The law doesn't always correctly recognize right from wrong.

Posted by KR on September 30, 2025, 12:33 pm, in reply to "That is known as sedition."

If you don't like it, change it. But a law-abiding society must enforce the laws it has.

Posted by DFM on September 30, 2025, 4:00 pm, in reply to "The law doesn't always correctly recognize right from wrong."

Amen !!!

Posted by GOG on October 1, 2025, 5:28 am, in reply to "If you don't like it, change it. But a law-abiding society must enforce the laws it has."

He doesn’t care.

Posted by observer on September 30, 2025, 11:03 am, in reply to "That is known as sedition."

I have more important things to care about.

Posted by KR on September 30, 2025, 2:38 pm, in reply to "He doesn’t care. "

Smart people don't follow stupid rules.

You are clearly NOT a smart person.

Smart people Change stupid rules.

Posted by Ken C on October 1, 2025, 11:44 am, in reply to "I have more important things to care about."

Smart people know how to make rational arguments

Posted by observer on October 1, 2025, 9:42 am, in reply to "I have more important things to care about."

and not be stupid using damning fallacious statements. Not knowing one’s been hoisted on his own petard is a #1 indication
of cluelessness. Jumbotron announcement couldn’t be more effective!

Arrogant. Scofflaw. Seditionist. Hateful.

Posted by GOG on October 1, 2025, 5:30 am, in reply to "I have more important things to care about."

Seditious Conspiracy: In the U.S., the primary federal law, 18 U.S. Code § 2384, addresses seditious

Posted by DFM on September 30, 2025, 10:50 am, in reply to "That is known as sedition."

Portland...where Sen. Wyden posted live footage from that ICE facility.

Posted by 7:77 on September 27, 2025, 5:14 pm, in reply to "Meanwhile in Portland "

No one around. No protestors, no one...

That whole "war-ravaged Portland" schtick is complete bollocks. This is yet more blatant overreach, a simplistic attempt to provoke resistance to create a rationale for declaring martial law.

provoke resistance...from who?

Posted by scott on September 27, 2025, 8:18 pm, in reply to "Portland...where Sen. Wyden posted live footage from that ICE facility."

So all is well here ... and the elements that may have been trouble have been dealt with by our government here, correct?

And there's no concerns that need any addressing by law enforcement because it's all under control. Right?

Kiddo...you haven't been around in awhile.

Property crime, sex trafficking, drug epidemic, homelessness increasd, socioeconomic issues, patterns of lawlessness, lack of crime policies and enforcement issues, and general public safety.

It's not just a problem of riding your bike around and right of way issues...

People are increasingly dangerous and not worried about consequences.

No one said Marshall law... that's a local determination by officials paid within this state to enact...but some show of force and accountability? I'm for that.

It is the military's first and foremost

Posted by Dancing Digits on September 28, 2025, 7:42 am, in reply to "provoke resistance...from who?"

sworn duty to defend the US Constitution against enemies both foreign and domestic. It is their duty to ignore orders from the POTUS that are in violation of the Constitution. Their obedience to obey orders from the Commander-in-Chief is second to the above. It is one of the checks and balances in place to the POTUS grabbing power s/he is not entitled to.

Can you say JAG? And where are they?

I never thought I would live to see the day when we would have the occupation of our own cities by our own military. They are NOT a police force. They are NOT trained to preform police work.

drama drama drama.. it's not an occupation..

Posted by scott on September 28, 2025, 10:06 am, in reply to "It is the military's first and foremost"

And yes . There are domestic terrorists..for anyone to deny that,...they live in a fantasy mindset.

Drama you say?

Posted by Dancing Digits on September 28, 2025, 9:57 pm, in reply to "drama drama drama.. it's not an occupation.."

How about some proof that Portland is 'war ravaged'?

Prove it hasn't...

Posted by scott on September 28, 2025, 10:42 pm, in reply to "Drama you say?"

I actually live here .. you're following the Pied Piper media....the lie and you swear to it .. how useful your really is ...

Backwards.

Posted by Dancing Digits on September 29, 2025, 5:50 am, in reply to "Prove it hasn't..."

I am not claiming Portland is a city ravaged by war. That's Trump's claim. It his burden of proof, not mine. You apparently back his claim. So prove away. . .

The media? Too much slant and half-truths are going on on both sides of the aisle. The media needs supportive evidence to be taken seriously. The days of Walter Cronkite are over. You're the claimant, not me.

boots on the ground, just for you

Posted by scott on September 29, 2025, 6:07 am, in reply to "Backwards."

https://www.instagram.com/dahlgrenkevin?igsh=MWUxcmFseHplZndxMQ==

It wasn't this was just 15 years ago ..now... it's the norm.

Ravaged by war. Not the guns you want ..just people being destroyed by drugs, trafficking, sanctuary self-serving blowouts, and moral decay that comes with why wars never seen to end

There's your proof.. you're welcome.
There's plenty more..just read the comments or even visit other local media reporters...they aren't your big news agencies with agendas..they just live here

LOL! A war of the videos. . .

Posted by Dancing Digits on September 29, 2025, 8:25 am, in reply to "boots on the ground, just for you"

I have been to major cities, frequently, throughout the years. Depending on what I select to vid, I can make NYC (for instance) look like one of the best places on Earth to live, or a hell hole. I'm not fooled by select videos.

But since you like videos so much:

https://x.com/RonWyden/status/1972016144145097059?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1972016144145097059%7Ctwgr%5Efbeb4ec5b5e3596349cab83f187acb71218f06d2%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ndtv.com%2Fworld-news%2Ffact-check-portland-not-war-ravaged-as-us-president-donald-trump-claims-say-oregon-officials-share-clips-from-portland-9359037

Or how about this from FOX, an outlet that GOPers and Conservatives prefer (includes videos of protestors and interviews of Portland residents):

And since you have in the past offered up AI info for us to chew on, here's some more for you and all you have to do is Google "is Portland a war ravaged city" to find it:

"AI Overview
No, Portland is not a war-ravaged city. Recent reports from Oregon officials, residents, and media outlets have refuted claims from former President Donald Trump that the city is "war ravaged" and in need of military intervention
. While Portland experienced significant civil unrest in 2020 and has faced more recent crime issues, it is a fully functioning American city that is currently seeing a decline in violent crime.
Recent political claims and city responses

Trump's statement: In late September 2025, Donald Trump posted on social media calling Portland "war ravaged" and threatened to deploy federal troops to the city.
Official denial: Oregon Governor Tina Kotek and other state officials stated that Portland is not facing a national security threat and is "safe and calm".
Residents' perspective: In late September 2025, residents contradicted Trump's description, sharing videos and images showing a calm and functional city.

Crime rates and revitalization efforts

Violent crime reduction: A Major Cities Chiefs Association report released in August 2025 showed that Portland had the steepest drop in violent crime among major U.S. cities during the first half of 2025.
Homicide decrease: Homicides in Portland fell by 51% in the first six months of 2025 compared to the same period in 2024, the largest decrease in any major city surveyed.
Downtown recovery: Efforts to revitalize downtown Portland are in progress, with reported increases in pedestrian traffic and a decrease in homeless encampments during the summer of 2025.

Context for past unrest
The idea of Portland as a "war-ravaged" city is likely a reference to the prolonged protests and sometimes-violent clashes that occurred during the summer of 2020. These protests, which often involved federal agents, led to civil unrest but did not leave the city physically ruined. The current situation is significantly different, with official data and on-the-ground reports confirming the city is not a "war zone" "

7:77 already posted FBI stats on Portland. There is no need for me to repost it.

Local media? They can just as slanted as the major outlets. Putting that aside for the moment - are you suggesting that FOX staged those videos?

One of the points I've been trying to make...

Posted by 7:77 on September 29, 2025, 8:38 am, in reply to "LOL! A war of the videos. . . "

...is that while Portland obviously has it's share of the problems that plague all large US cities, the overwhelming majority of those are not matters that the federal government has any business intervening over. That is gross federal overreach...potentially at gunpoint. Remember when conservatives clamored for state's rights and bitterly complained about that sort of federal overreach? My, how the tables have turned.

Unhappy with aggressive protests at the ICE facility? Okay, fine: an appropriately-sized contingent of federal marshals or other such personnel might be appropriate. Large homeless camps and the attendant increase in property crime? Local matter. And so forth...

As you point out, homicide in Portland is on the decline. Violent crime in general is barely on the national radar. Describing Portland as "war-ravaged" was transparently hyperbolic and criminally irresponsible.

This isn't about the state of things in Portland. It's about consolidating political power and pandering to a quasi-cult.

Crime is not on the decline.

Posted by GOG on October 1, 2025, 5:38 am, in reply to "One of the points I've been trying to make..."

What’s on the increase has been liberal cities allowing criminals to avoid bail and jail time. And cook the statistics. Shoplifting, carjackings, burglary, assaults, muggings, etc. Add in the seditionists. A certain demographic is the most responsible. Local politicians won’t allow the police to police. Defund defund. It’s at crisis stage. Time to go in with troops, take out the troublemakers. Peace, law and order.

Absolutely agree!

Posted by Dancing Digits on September 29, 2025, 10:07 pm, in reply to "One of the points I've been trying to make..."

Oh Wait....

Posted by Skye on September 29, 2025, 9:13 pm, in reply to "One of the points I've been trying to make..."

'You mean what I was watching on television, on Fox News, isn't what was really happening in Oregon??? And they weren't really eating the cats and dogs in Ohio, either??? Oh well... guess I don't really need to send troops into 'war ravaged' Oregon after all then... ' (Paraphrased)

Yeah, this is what we are dealing with.

I know...shocking, right?!

Posted by 7:77 on September 30, 2025, 7:28 am, in reply to "Oh Wait...."

The future of Portland and other cities? I hope not.

Posted by Dancing Digits on September 29, 2025, 9:55 pm, in reply to "Oh Wait...."

It amazes me that this is what some people want.

I've seen videos....

Posted by Skye on September 30, 2025, 5:08 am, in reply to "The future of Portland and other cities? I hope not."

of trump saying how terrible it was in DC before he had his troops 'clean it up'... and now there is NO crime there... people can actually go out to eat at restaurants or cross the street without fear of being assaulted or murdered. LOL

He's gonna need a LOT of troops to police and clean up every city in the country... and then stay there so there will be NO MORE crime!

We have a raving mad man in the White House.

Critical mass had been reached. Something drastic is required.

Posted by GOG on October 1, 2025, 5:42 am, in reply to "I've seen videos...."

If the local politicians won’t let the cops police, then this intervention is the result. Cry me a river.

And if anyone likes google search results 'AI Overview'

Posted by Dancing Digits on September 29, 2025, 10:02 pm, in reply to "The future of Portland and other cities? I hope not."

AI Overview
According to recent news reports from September 29, 2025, federal agents were seen marching on the streets of downtown Chicago
. This was part of a recent escalation of federal law enforcement activity following a directive from the Trump administration in response to immigration protests.
Key details from recent reports:

Activity: Armed federal agents, described as wearing full tactical gear, were seen in prominent tourist and shopping areas in downtown Chicago.
Context: The move followed a surge in immigration enforcement in the Chicago area, which involved confrontations between protesters and federal authorities. A day earlier, President Trump announced on social media that he had directed the Department of Defense to deploy troops to cities to address protests.
Public reaction: Crowds gathered to protest the agents' presence, with some shouting "ICE go home" as the officers moved through the streets.
Upcoming protest: A rally and march called "Hands Off Chicago / No Kings!" is scheduled for October 18, 2025, in Chicago's Butler Field to protest the deployment of militarized agents.

This event is part of a broader pattern of federal law enforcement deployments in various cities, including Portland and Los Angeles, amid immigration-related protests.

(The google address is insanely long and I am afraid it will overstretch this post making it hard to read. Just run a google search "armed agents marching on chicago's streets".

Sorry about my above post being stretched out so much.

Posted by Dancing Digits on September 29, 2025, 8:34 am, in reply to "LOL! A war of the videos. . . "

I had no idea that would happen until I submitted the post and saw it. My guess is that it was the link to the X vid that caused it.

Too late for me to try and fix it now.

Same hysteria for J6. And it was a pep rally.

Posted by GOG on September 28, 2025, 5:39 pm, in reply to "drama drama drama.. it's not an occupation.."

What's true about

Posted by scott on September 29, 2025, 6:17 am, in reply to "Same hysteria for J6. And it was a pep rally."

The FBI involved?...

Patel says there were infiltrators inciting up the crowd/mob to trouble, others say they were brought in for crowd control or to keep an eye on government targets...yet others say some were there of their own volition just being a part of it all

There are none to believe in imho...

It’s now known the pep rally was cheered on by deep state

Posted by GOG on October 1, 2025, 5:46 am, in reply to "What's true about "

agent provocatures. It’s surprising how peaceful the capitol tour was given the sinister infiltration.

at that point those "domestic terrorists" are ICE

Posted by trish on September 28, 2025, 11:19 am, in reply to "drama drama drama.. it's not an occupation.."

you're full of baloney..

Posted by scott on September 28, 2025, 4:37 pm, in reply to "at that point those "domestic terrorists" are ICE"

100% are U.S. citizens...not illegals...and those are the ones getting arrested...

It's ok if you're wanting to get between the law and the criminals..but it only makes you an accessory to the crime... but it's weird you think that's normal.

There is zero enforcement here.

There are taxes disappearing into unchecked holes of so called protector's of illegal's right.. but the truth remains..they have none and must to home.

Point out one thing in my post that is not true

Posted by trish on September 29, 2025, 7:19 am, in reply to "you're full of baloney.."

ICE is behaving like a terrorist organization (instilling duh, terror)

For one thing “domestic terrorism” is not a casual designation

Posted by observer on September 30, 2025, 10:54 am, in reply to "Point out one thing in my post that is not true"

by distraught far lefties: it’s a legal distinction, one that has not been given to ICE agents.

it should be

Posted by trish on October 1, 2025, 7:29 am, in reply to "For one thing “domestic terrorism” is not a casual designation"

Unless you are hanging out around an ice facility

Posted by Dara on September 28, 2025, 8:01 am, in reply to "It is the military's first and foremost"

you probably won't see any more military uniforms around the city then you ever have if you live, work, or socialize within a 25-30 mile radius of a military installation.

First of all - both Title 10 and Title 32 are derived from the Constitution.

MSCA morphed into DSCA within the last decade or so. Title 32 activated are actually performing their Constitutional Duty. And there is, of course, extensive training. Many are dual in the respect that when they are not 'activated' they are probably civilian law enforcement - dual service.

If you are really upset about this entire concept - then you are probably being spoon fed by the media who has a mission to either outrage or upset you. But it is disingenous of both the left and the media to present the information in the manner they are.

And, it is beyond me why few seem to remember that the clean up of the streets, the removal of threats was heavily campaigned on - not just DJT either - and 78 million people said "yes, this is what we want".

As far as JAG - Judge Advocate General - you might be confusing how that system actually works - even people familiar with it confuse how that system works.

Same with the IG process - that is why any IG complaint left over from Trump's initial term did not go far once Biden Admin took office. More to the point - read about who the Inspector General reports their finding to. See?

So much to respond to.

Posted by Dancing Digits on September 28, 2025, 12:06 pm, in reply to "Unless you are hanging out around an ice facility"

1. I have not only lived next to military bases, I have lived in government housing as military family. I have seen military personnel all over the place - in towns, in cars, on ships, on base. . . they were going about their business, whether it was personal business such as grocery shopping, or the performance of their duties. The only ARMED personnel I have seen were those in the guard shack at the entrances of the bases (yes I have been on base numerous times), and the MPs when on duty. That's it. No one in uniform other than for the exception I already mentioned was walking around with weapons.

Military personnel strolling around the public streets do not bother me. I DO pay attention to ARMED personnel. Is Trump sending military to American cities unarmed? I don't think so.

2. Who needs the media to tell you what Trump has said when you have Trump himself?

Posted on TruthSocial by Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump:

"At the request of Security of Homeland Security, Kristi Noem, I am direcing Secretary of War, Pete Hegseth to protect War ravaged Portland, and any of our ICE facilities under siege from attack by Antifa, and other domestic terrorists. I am also authorizing Full Force, if necessary. Thank you for your attention in this matter."

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/115276694936263266

War ravaged Portland? War ravaged Portland??. Please show me current proof that Portland is ravaged by war.

3. JAG:

Besides prosecuting, defending, and presiding over courts-martial, military attorneys advise commanders on issues involving a number of areas of law. Depending on the service, these areas may include the law of war, the rules of engagement and their interpretation, and other operational law issues, government contract law, administrative law, labor law, environmental law, international law, claims against the government (such as under the Federal Tort Claims Act), and information law (such as requests for information in the possession of the military under the Freedom of Information Act). Military attorneys also advise individual service members, military retirees, and their families regarding personal civil legal problems they may have, including drafting wills, fending off creditors and reviewing leases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge_Advocate_General%27s_Corps

The U.S. Navy JAG Corps provides full-spectrum legal services that enable naval and joint operations in support of America's national security.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge_Advocate_General%27s_Corps

I could go on. It's very hard to believe that JAG is not familiar with Constitutional law as it applies to the military. They do advise Commanders.

Dara: "But it is disingenous of both the left and the media to present the information in the manner they are."

Partisan politics has no place in this. This isn't about politics and finger pointing and what side of the aisle is guilty of what. This is not a case of one side wanting the cities to be 'cleaned up' and other side wanting 'crime' (which is the implication that is being made here). It's about a President characterizing a situation as something it is not (Portland is not war ravaged) and using it as an excuse to 'send in the troops'.

Perhaps you do trust Trump. I don't. I believe trust is to be earned, not freely given. But once he grabs power that he is not lawfully entitled to, he opens the door for any future president to do the same. Who those future presidents will be and how trustworthy they will be is something no one can predict.

Posted by Dara on September 28, 2025, 2:17 pm, in reply to "So much to respond to."

if you are depending on wiki to define a JAG for you - then, of course, clear understanding will not be there.

Live it - then get back with me. Speak from your lived experience with the JAG

btw, nowhere in my earlier post was there an assertion that a JAG is not familiar with Constitutional law. Your post that I responded to would imply that you have a belief (and heck maybe Wiki also) of a power that does not exist.

Further - just because you dislike it - or want to frame it with a different narrative - does not mean it is "unconstitutional".

Second address is wrong

Posted by Dancing Digits on September 28, 2025, 3:46 pm, in reply to "PS"

I am looking for the correct address - from the NAVY JAG website.

Sorry but husband was thoroughly briefed on this - what his sworn oath actually meant. He just didn't repeat the words and that was it.

If the military is not living up to their sworn duty to the US Constitution that is on them. In today's atmosphere, that wouldn't surprise me.

Can't find the exact page I was on. If I find it I'll let you know. In the meantime:

The Navy JAG Corps provides legal support for the fleet and enables the Navy mission throughout the world, both ashore and at sea. The JAG Corps is ideal for lawyers looking to gain hands-on legal experience in many different areas of law including:

Military Justice
Legal Assistance
International Law
Administrative Law
Environmental Law
Civil Litigation
Admiralty and Maritime Law
National Security Law

https://www.navy.com/careers-benefits/careers/legal/jag

No problem

Posted by Dara on September 28, 2025, 5:16 pm, in reply to "Second address is wrong"

Thank your husband, and your entire family, for his service.

There is no dispute from me on what a JAG's job decription is. It is how it is, and more importantly, where it CAN be applied.

That's the issue/problem though isn't it?

Posted by Dara on September 28, 2025, 1:39 pm, in reply to "So much to respond to."

You have made it all about Trump - and your dislike of his as a President.

Every word I posted is accurate - but you found the wiggle space...actually two of them...regarding living near a military installation - and Trump's truth social (and neither of those refute what I typed).

So...had 'armed' military personnel strolling down your street? Oh - wait - you probably don't live in either Portland or Seattle, correct? But, if you do - how many 'armed' military personnel have been walking the streets since Saturday? Or are they only 'armed' when on duty at an ICE Detention Center? Well?

Re-read Trump's Truth Social post again - change the filter on the lens you are reading through and 'highlight' the part where there would be 'armed' military coming up your street.

Sheesh

Nice dodge

Posted by Dancing Digits on September 28, 2025, 3:33 pm, in reply to "That's the issue/problem though isn't it?"

Prove that Portland is 'War ravaged'.

He is sending unarmed troops? To use 'full force'? Maybe you are the one that should reread what he wrote.

Of course this is about Trump and the power is he seizing. If he didn't make the threat, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

You can try to shift the focus of this issue all you want to 'my hate'. But it doesn't work.

Prove that Portland is 'War ravaged'.

No dodging here - I take it you are not living in Portland

Posted by Dara on September 28, 2025, 5:20 pm, in reply to "Nice dodge"

And I don't think you are willing to open your mind - past your bias of Trump - to actually consider what might be going on here.

Which shocks me - as, if you are that closely aligned with the military - you should have at least had/have SOME peripheral understanding of.

Even if it were awhile ago you would - all this scheiss has been going on for decades - in one form or another. This is just a much more organized, and trained, form. I would bet if this schiess was having to go down and Obama was in office - you would be fine with it. As a matter of fact, there is no doubt - because DSCA has had multiple operations over the last few decades CONUS and no one bitched about it until now.

Your assumptions are mistaken.

Posted by Dancing Digits on September 28, 2025, 7:07 pm, in reply to "No dodging here - I take it you are not living in Portland"

1. I typically avoid politics here. In fact, until recently, I've avoided it like the Black Plague. It's OT on this board due to Ken's wishes. I also loathe politics. I am only joining the fray now as I think what is currently going on here in the US is too important to ignore. Besides - exactly how long do you think I've been on this board? Obama left office for good January 2017. . .8 years ago. I don't keep records but I am pretty sure I haven't been here for 8 years. I have also taken long absences from here, thus not joining many conversations.

2. I left the Democratic party years ago and unless they turn things around (I am not holding my breath) I will never register with them again. The absolute fiasco during the Biden/Trump election cycle put the final nail in the I-will-NOT-go-back-to-them coffin. They have stopped 'courting' me to come back. I think they've finally figured it out. I also think that neither Biden nor Harris belonged in office right along with Trump. You are welcome to the Three Stooges.

3. There are people in the US who say they would vote for Obama again, if he ran. Count me OUT! He can't run for a third term, and no one should attempt it regardless of who has tossed their hat into the ring. No one should attempt to run for a third term. The first time Obama ran, I had such high hopes for him. Today I am not an Obama fan . . . and am happy Michelle Obama is not interested in running. To be honest, it's been a long long time since we have had an impressive President in office. A long time.

4. I can't say for all military families but I can say that the ones I associated with for my husband's 20 years of service (we are still in contact with many), all had a deep respect for the US Constitution. Presidents are sworn to uphold the very same Constitution. When they don't, they violate their oath of office. That is not something that any of us take lightly. It's serious. It also puts the military in a very bad position when their Commander-in-Chief gives an illegal order.

5. No matter how strongly any President may feel about what is going on in the country that shouldn't be, no matter how strongly he desires to step in to do the 'right' thing whatever he deems them to be, he still may not violate his oath of office nor may he take powers that he is not legally entitled to grab. By doing so he upsets the balance of power and opens the door to those who come after him. I am NOT saying that this is Trump's motives. I am saying that no matter how honorable a President's personal motives may be, when in office, it is his sworn duty to respect the powers and limitations of that office. He is an instrument of that office - he is not the office itself.

6. I am a very firm believer in 'power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely'. Trump, Obama, Bush, Clinton - non of them are an exception to that. None. It is essential for many reasons that all Presidents respect the balance of power, respect the checks and balances system of government, and accept that none of them are incapable of corruption. If they think they are above it all, they don't belong in office.

What have I seen of Trump? He bullies, name calls, acts in a thoroughly undignified and non-statesmen-like way, threatens galore with lawsuits, throws his weight around, attempts to censor, lies lies and lies, grabs power wherever he can, insults. . . . I don't trust his judgment, I don't trust him. I will be glad when his term is up. . . very, very glad. And he can take Kennedy along with him. . . and some others as well.

I made no assumptions

Posted by Dara on September 28, 2025, 7:41 pm, in reply to "Your assumptions are mistaken."

I stated a fact about DSCA. This isn't at all about politics...it is about quality of life - the trajectory of civil disobediance and dealing with what is no longer on the horizon - it is HERE.

If you want to win an argument - fine, you win. It isn't about arguing. If you want to have a discussion about something that should really matter to each and every one of us - regardless of party preference or who is President - then I challenge you to look up some facts. Start with Counter Drug Intelligence Ops - which actually were the most successful under Obama.

Merge those facts with what has currently happened - and I don't blame the President who was in office because at this point we all recognize that Biden was not making the decision to make the border wide open and allow upwards of 15 million in the country. Obama deported more illegals than any other President to date. For good reason.

Dealing with five times the number of issues currently than ever before - 2nd challenge - research the numbers.

Best I can do here...you want to DISCUSS further - come back with some facts. Again - you just want to claim that you win an argument - consider that you have Won because - and absolutely no disrespect intended - my comments were not a reflection on YOU, or how long YOU have been on a board - my comments surround what should be a reasoned discussion about the original topic Scott began - which currently involve DSCA ops in Portland. Not any damn 'troops in the street' chit.

Winning may have its value

Posted by Dara on September 28, 2025, 9:39 pm, in reply to "I made no assumptions"

in football games but it has no value in this. This isn't a competition. No one is going to win a first place ribbon and what any of us would do with one is beyond me. No one is sitting in the stands rooting for the team. If they are they have severely missed the mark and I ignore them because of it. I don't need any trophies, I don't need to 'win' - however it is that one wins in this to begin with. I repeat, it has no value in this.

If I say that I don't like a President that doesn't mean I disagree with everything that he does anymore than if I state I like a President that means I agree with everything he does. It's a general statement, Dara. . . an overall statement of like or dislike based on the big picture. If you need an example - I don't have to tell you that I dislike Trump. I do agree with him that the borders need to be better controlled. But I still, overall, dislike him. So if Obama did some good things, and Clinton did some good things, and Bush did some good things that should be acknowledged (credit where it's due) but - it still doesn't mean I like them.

Biden was in decline during his term. It should have been obvious to his healthcare provider before it became so publicly obvious. It was pretty obvious in the end of his term. It's close to impossible to believe that he had no clue - that no one ever said they had concerns to him, most of all his healthcare providers. He should have stepped down before it reached the point that it did rather than muddle through the rest of his term. He didn't and that's on him.

Numbers only tell part of the story. There is so much more to a President than numbers and stats. I am still waiting for proof of this 'war ravaged Portland'. That is not my description of the current situation in Portland. I bring it up because it is the basis that Trump is using to make his decisions.

"Again - you just want to claim that you win an argument - consider that you have Won because -"

Not interested. "I win, you lose" is a childish claim. If you want to know what my interest is in this, all you have to do is ask me. Don't assign motive to me. And you did.

The "damn troops in the street chit", as you put it, is relevant ...Trump is the one stating that he is going to send those "damn troops in" because of the "war ravaged" situation in Portland. It is the situation in Portland and what is being done about it that this thread is about. It is what is being discussed here in this thread. If there was absolutely nothing going on in Portland but everyday hum-drum life, this thread would make no sense.

As far as politics - I was responding to this:

Dara: "But it is disingenous of both the left and the media to present the information in the manner they are."

DD: "Partisan politics has no place in this. This isn't about politics and finger pointing and what side of the aisle is guilty of what. This is not a case of one side wanting the cities to be 'cleaned up' and other side wanting 'crime' (which is the implication that is being made here). It's about a President characterizing a situation as something it is not (Portland is not war ravaged) and using it as an excuse to 'send in the troops'."

In your assessment, there is sufficient cause to 'send in the troops' (paraphrasing, not a direct quote). In my assessment, Trump doesn't have the legal authority to do so at this point. That is what this is about - not winning the argument, not partisan politics, not about left or right, not about the media, not stats and who left the borders open and who kicked the most illegals out of the country.. . . . I didn't bring any of that up.

Does Trump have the legal authority to do what he says he will do? You say yes, I say no.

At this point, I doubt either one of us will change our minds. Time to agree to disagree.

My apolotiges - the above post is mine. I have no idea how Dara's name got in the Your Name space.

Posted by Dancing Digits on September 28, 2025, 9:46 pm, in reply to "Winning may have its value"

I must have screwed up somewhere when submitting the post. Again my apologies.

No problem

Posted by Dara on September 28, 2025, 10:46 pm, in reply to "My apolotiges - the above post is mine. I have no idea how Dara's name got in the Your Name space."

After I read the post I determined that you made me look good so I'm okay with it (and please take that in the spirit of complimentary humor that I mean it in) We might not ever agree about much, but that doesn't mean we can't enjoy the hell out of 'discussing' it.

We are going to have to agree to disagree

But, when you have some spare time - please do look up the stats on ops that have been going on for quite some time.

Well, that, and remember the Prez - whoever it is - is generally just a figure head and, as all things are temporary, is Constitutionally temporary.

The Prez is a

Posted by Dancing Digits on September 29, 2025, 5:58 am, in reply to "No problem"

decision maker, a negotiator, a representative of our country, the Commander-in-Chief of the military.. .he is CEO. He has a lot of power. I would therefore not call him a figure head.

Yes, whoever is in office is temporary. At some point, all Presidents leave. Whatever good or bad they do however is left behind.

Yes I agree that we can argue our differences out and enjoy the challenge. I also agree that at this point in time we should agree to disagree. I don't totally discount stats - I do look at them from time to time. It's my position they only tell part of the story. And one must be careful how they are interpreted.

Any rate, we do agree on some things.

Forgot to add

Posted by Dancing Digits on September 28, 2025, 7:17 pm, in reply to "Your assumptions are mistaken."

No I don't live in Portland. I don't have to live in Portland to have concern what is going there and to have concern for what the President is doing. He is just as much your President as he is mine.

I have yet to see proof that Portland is 'ravaged by war'. Trump is using that as a reason to send in the troops - armed troops. Ok so let's see 'ravaged Portland'. . . .

Understood

Posted by Dara on September 28, 2025, 7:42 pm, in reply to "Forgot to add"

Which would you prefer

a)DSCA ops

b) Cartels

What I prefer

Posted by Dancing Digits on September 28, 2025, 9:53 pm, in reply to "Understood"

is proof that Portland is "War ravaged".

Thank you for some information I did not know

Posted by trish on September 28, 2025, 1:18 pm, in reply to "So much to respond to."

You're welcome.

Posted by Dancing Digits on September 28, 2025, 4:00 pm, in reply to "Thank you for some information I did not know"

I grew up having strong faith in this country and what I viewed as its continuing potential to excel. It's hard to admit that we have a President in office who behaves the way Trump does, and that he was lawfully elected. I don't enjoy any of this. His mouth alone, his name calling is embarrassing.

And he isn't the only one. Kennedy is a nightmare . . . and there are others - others (not Kennedy!!) who I at one time had hope for. But like the saying goes, hope dies hard. But it does die.

I can only hope ours allies understand that Washington does not always represent We the People. Washington is pretty damn good at representing itself. . . and convincing people that they are only doing what they do for our benefit.

I never thought I’d see the day when American culture had

Posted by observer on September 28, 2025, 8:01 am, in reply to "It is the military's first and foremost"

devolved to the point where evil would be called good and good would be called evil and, therefore we’d need help from the military to restore a modicum of decency.

Bad as it is, it’s still better than we deserve, having squandered the best opportunity man has ever had to rise above, to honor the God who created us, and to make life a glorious thing for all who choose to want it.

ICE is evil. Those protesting and obstructing them are good.

Posted by KR on September 29, 2025, 5:35 pm, in reply to "I never thought I’d see the day when American culture had"

Also, you are dumber than dirt. Shit up and learn your place.

Re: I never thought I’d see the day when American culture had

Posted by Dancing Digits on September 28, 2025, 12:24 pm, in reply to "I never thought I’d see the day when American culture had"

The military is not an enforcer of morality or decency. That is not their purpose. They do not have legal authority to do so. I wouldn't want them to be such an enforcer. Which one of us gets to say with authority whose morality is to be enforced, whose beliefs, whose religion is to be enforced?

Besides, exactly how seriously are the believers in Yahweh anyway? How seriously do they really take his Commandments?

You can't pick and choose what commandments you will follow, and which one you won't:

First Commandment: "You shall have no other gods before me".

What consequences do you propose for those who are not Christian/believers of your god?

"Thou shalt not kill." How many Christians have picked up arms and gone off to war, killing?

"Thou shalt not lie."

Which one of us can claim we have never lied?

My point - the Ten Commandments, religion, god beliefs, etc. has never stopped humans from behaving as they want, Christian or not.

Good morning observer

Posted by Dara on September 28, 2025, 8:06 am, in reply to "I never thought I’d see the day when American culture had"

Honestly, I'm not so certain the Trump Admin would have taken this measure if the organized groups weren't radicalizing to the point of outright attacking ICE detention centers. Usually buried within most news articles discussing Portland - it specifically states the troops are there to suppress protests targeting immigration detention centers. Surfing boards this morning - it seems that many have gotten the idea that armed troops will be walking the streets. Kinda over the top thinking - but everyone is on edge I guess.

What are your thoughts on this?

Good morning, Dara

Posted by observer on September 28, 2025, 9:30 am, in reply to "Good morning observer"

I think the radicalization receives tremendous financial funding from our enemies, for starters. I think the early beginnings of the “hate America” thing began when European critical theorists were invited by Columbia University to this country and began the university drumbeat of how oppressive the USA is. With the unrest we had here because of racism and other undesirable attitudes, they found fertile ground for growth.

Most people, it would seem, were unaware of this cancer festering among us, being shocked when their offspring came back from school brainwashed and intractable. The homefront often lacked the necessary information to effectively rebut the arguments they were hearing. There was little immunity to the fast spreading deadly virus. Then the “too little too late” attempts took hold to a degree and some resistance was evident, but the culture as a whole degraded to the point where families had to work hard to
prevent their families from being destroyed. Those who were
unaware or unwilling to do so lost the battle. And here we are, a strongly divided nation easily invaded by enemies of all sorts.

Still, I think the groundswell of people waking up, the power of truth, and attempts at restoration offer hope.

I do not see the danger from the right ( although it’s always possible where corruption prevails) or from the American military being used the way it has been so far. The facts to date indicate the opposite in fact.

But, we must find a way to stop Soros, radical Islamization PARTICULARLY IN OUR GOVERNMENT, Socialism, Communism, and all the ungodly evil at work among us. Otherwise, it’s suicidal.

Very well expressed, observer, and I agree

Posted by Dara on September 28, 2025, 9:49 am, in reply to "Good morning, Dara"

I've noticed that the phrase "destruction of western civilization" continues to be voiced by various 'leader's'.

Think Europe is running out of runway - it will take devine intervention - in my humble opinion.

I've often wondered if any history professor in any university encourages the examination of the crusades. Christians did not win.

Some assert that the event of the Crusades is not addressed in the Bible. Any insight on this? Nothing in Revelations?

I’m not familiar with

Posted by observer on September 29, 2025, 11:59 am, in reply to "Very well expressed, observer, and I agree"

(Sorry, “jumpy” ipad and confused user)

Posted by observer on September 29, 2025, 12:45 pm, in reply to "I’m not familiar with"

I’m not familiar with any reference whatever in the Bible refers to the Crusades, particularly the New Testament which emphasizes peace.

What I do understand, is that The Crusades were a direct reaction to the advancing Islamic military expansion in its commitment to dominate and make the world Islamic. Sound familiar?

From what I’ve read, there were Old Testament Bible verses used to justify the Crusades, but they were cherry-picked, as they so often are, to justify what men wanted to do. While I have no problem understanding both the desire and need to confront
the threat against them - the same one we face today, imo, I do not think God should be blamed for the Crusades. Too much that happened was in contradiction to Scripture.

Interesting headline I caught recently was a claim that the Quran did not consider Islam a religion, but a civilization! Should follow up on that, I suppose. Immediately thought how that does specifically address the issue of worship and the obvious difficulty
implicit with the person of Mohammed being worshipped. Yet, many do worship him.

I do believe the history of Western Civilization is based on Judeo Christian Biblical principles. I also believe that the enemies we have are determined to change that foundation of our civilization.
I see it as war between good and evil. And because I believe that the Bible teaches in many verses there is no good when God is not present, I don’t believe any government, institution, et al can be truly successful without God as the ultimate principle giver.

Further, as Biblical influence diminishes so does the understanding of what is good, what is just, even what is kind.
One result is that people “settle” for their own limited understanding and never know the extent of the good, the love, the blessings that God alone can give. On this, I speak from the experience I’ve had as a maturing Christian, not always having had the awareness myself. But, I digress.

Bottom line, our success against our enemies cannot happen without God and unless we do understand that these divisive issues have God as their primary target (primarily spiritual warfare, imo) and don’t seek Him, I see no win.

Thank you for the excellent response

Posted by Dara on September 29, 2025, 3:02 pm, in reply to "(Sorry, “jumpy” ipad and confused user)"

I could not remember ever seeing a specific reference but I wanted to run the question by you for your take.

On my way out the door.

Posted by observer on September 28, 2025, 10:39 am, in reply to "Very well expressed, observer, and I agree"

Interesting question. Hope to get back to this tonight. Hope your day is great!

oops...'divine' intervention also - typo

Posted by Dara on September 28, 2025, 10:04 am, in reply to "Very well expressed, observer, and I agree"

Yep. Totally with you.

Posted by GOG on September 28, 2025, 7:06 am, in reply to "provoke resistance...from who?"

When lawlessness of the sort we continue to witness reaches a critical level, it’s only natural government becomes reactionary. Often this is cause for Marshall law. And in its extreme suspension of democratic processes and installation of a ‘strong man’. Those who make excuses for the mob behavior are aiding and abetting, imo.

Anyone willing to oppose totalitarianism.

Posted by 7:77 on September 28, 2025, 5:56 am, in reply to "provoke resistance...from who?"

"Property crime, sex trafficking, drug epidemic, homelessness increasd, socioeconomic issues, patterns of lawlessness, lack of crime policies and enforcement issues, and general public safety."

None of which* are the responsibility of the Executive Branch of the federal government. These are local law enforcement issues.

Moreover, do you have a verifiable source showing that any or all of these categories are on the rise at all, to say nothing of a rise so catastrophic that the overheated term "war ravaged" is anything but inflammatory hyperbole?

I'm sorry, but this couldn't be more obviously yet another move toward military intimidation/occupation of opposition-controlled cities by the administration. Gov. Kotek should seriously consider deploying Oregon NG elements in response. No, I'm not joking...

*with the possible exception of "socioeconomic issues," which is awfully broad.

Interpretation of the actual facts is so skewed by the bias

Posted by observer on September 29, 2025, 11:01 am, in reply to "Anyone willing to oppose totalitarianism."

on both sides that anything short of being there often clouds the issue to the point that no one agrees on what has happened. But facts remain that are documented and obvious. Whether they are viewed or ignored by those same biased opinions once again results in big doubt.

So when the take away is that a community is not being adequately protected based on those facts and some of the populace and many business owners speaking out, then the
Supremacy Clause of the Constitution gives the federal government authority to act.

Not everyone can move to Japan. (Sorry, Sara, couldn’t resist, and am always glad when we see you here again!)

My friend 7:77

Posted by Dara on September 28, 2025, 2:35 pm, in reply to "Anyone willing to oppose totalitarianism."

you've interacted with me off and on for over twenty years on a message board. Would I lie to you? The word 'mobilize' is a term involved in the activation of Oregon National Guard troops. It also opens the door for federal money to be spent, as opposed to Oregon bearing the brunt of expense for the assistance to the ICE facility. Most of the troops activated will be Oregon National Guard - trained in LE/DSCA - and the rest coming from anywhere else will be supplemental to ensure all involved are trained DSCA - whatever the mission requires.

Gov Kotek has already coordinated with Trump - the conversation has been referred to in numerous, including Reuters, articles - I don't give a dayum what Ms Tina gets in front of a camera and says.

Here is the part I want you to listen to and believe I would not lie to you - this action IS necessary. I promise. I would like it not to be necessary - but it is what it is.

And for gawd's sake - A governor cannot order the national guard to attack itself - that would only garner us Martial Law and wouldn't that be fun for all - right?

I don't believe you'd lie.

Posted by 7:77 on September 28, 2025, 5:51 pm, in reply to "My friend 7:77"

That would require deliberate intent, and I don't think you'd do that. But I have zero doubt you are very wrong about the need for these steps in Portland. I am in regular communication with over a dozen Portland friends, and none of them corroborate the administration's depictions of the status quo in Portland. Not one.

I have visited fairly recently myself, about two months ago. Nothing even remotely like the pandemic-era BLM protests. And I am in fact in the US right now (a family matter that will occupy me for a while).

Sorry, but we're not going to agree on this matter.

Re: I don't believe you'd lie.

Posted by Dara on September 28, 2025, 8:00 pm, in reply to "I don't believe you'd lie."

We don't have to agree, you probably remember that - you will have my respect regardless.

I am aware of your intelligence - and capability so the following comment is not a reflection on either of those qualities (also I am very certain you pay attention to current events)...the comment - My hope is that you remain home.

Re: Anyone willing to oppose totalitarianism.

Posted by trish on September 28, 2025, 11:25 am, in reply to "Anyone willing to oppose totalitarianism."

I couldn't agree more. Everything happening has been intended to create fear, confusion, fuel racism, and division. Put neighbor against neighbor. Challenge any reporting of which the administration doesn't approve. Steam roll over state rights. tRump WANTS to declar martial law so badly and distract from the EPSTEIN issue.

It's not rocket science. It's out in the open for all to see.

yes, I have a source directly involved...

Posted by scott on September 28, 2025, 10:04 am, in reply to "Anyone willing to oppose totalitarianism."

The ICE facility in Portland has been subject to months of dangerously chaotic protests that have put residents and federal agents in harm’s way.

The governor’s assertion that there is no national security threat and the mayor’s assertion that everything is fine is tone-deaf.

It’s shameful that state and local leaders have allowed violent mobs and domestic terrorists to assault federal law enforcement, destroy property, and interfere with those seeking immigration services from obtaining assistance and case management.

We need order, we need to restore safety, and Oregon’s local leaders have failed to provide it.

https://www.opb.org/article/2025/09/27/oregon-portland-trump-troops-reaction/

Christine Drazen...
You may recoil because she is a politician..but she has no need to lie .

So, when the locals fail,

Posted by observer on September 28, 2025, 8:07 am, in reply to "Anyone willing to oppose totalitarianism."

when corruption and inability destroy the community, people should just accept it? The people have decided not to accept it.
That is exactly why we have the government we have at the moment.

An interesting question, but inapplicable.

Posted by 7:77 on September 28, 2025, 9:55 am, in reply to "So, when the locals fail,"

The locals haven't failed in Portland, at least certainly not to a point where a rational person could deem it "war-ravaged." That's pure propaganda, cynically implemented by people counting on COVID/BLM era unrest in Portland (and the rightist media's considerable exaggeration thereof) to make some segments believe such things are happening now. They aren't. Portland is not only not in the top 10 for rates of serious crimes (homicide, rape, robbery, aggravated assault), it's not even in the top 50: ranked 57 according to FBI data.

In any case, if a local governmental entity (like a municipality) had failed to the point where outside military assistance was called for, it's the job of that entity's leadership to ask their state's governor to call in the state's National Guard.

It's not the responsibility of the federal government's Executive Branch to perform such a role, particularly (and conveniently) only in places where their political opposition is in power. Again, what is happening is utterly obvious, as is the need to resist it by whatever means necessary.

Portland ranked the second most dangerous city...

Posted by scott on September 28, 2025, 10:15 am, in reply to "An interesting question, but inapplicable."

Total Crime Rate: Security.org ranked Portland as the second-most dangerous city in the US in 2024 based on its total crime rate, which was significantly higher than the national average.

Oregon-Specific Rankings

Property Crime: Portland has the highest rate of property crime in the state of Oregon.
Violent Crime: Portland ranks second in the state for violent crime, with a rate of 715 violent crimes per 100,000 residents in the first half of 2025

All bias aside though...

It's also undergoing a revival, of some effective degree, of Christianity.

Imagine that ..Pioneer Square..people praying...some even getting baptized..

That wouldn't have happened not too long ago.

The FBI data says very much otherwise (for violent crime).

Posted by 7:77 on September 28, 2025, 1:30 pm, in reply to "Portland ranked the second most dangerous city..."

Property crimes, while certainly not trivial, are hardly something one can consider a factor in calling a city "war-ravaged." Again, Portland ranks 57th nationwide for violent crime.

Portland's "#1 " with serious crimes" are the reason ..

Posted by scott on September 28, 2025, 4:52 pm, in reply to "The FBI data says very much otherwise (for violent crime)."

Portland

Portland’s crime rate is 66.9 per 1,000 residents, with violent crime at 7.2 and property crime at 59.8. Motor vehicle theft sits at 13.4 per 1,000—nearly four times the national median. Downtown, St. Johns, and the East Portland corridor see the most police calls. Homicides dropped 8 percent in 2024, yet burglary and theft still climb in inner-east blocks. If you live here, lock up early and park in a garage when you can.

Businesses have been moving out. Stores closing from rampant theft and lawlessness. Brake ins.

People leaving not only the city, but many also from the state. Why I even know an individual who left Portland to go to another country and bought a business there that's safer to live in. Imagine that.

The FBI says 57th for violent crime.

Posted by 7:77 on September 28, 2025, 5:55 pm, in reply to "Portland's "#1 " with serious crimes" are the reason .."

Just wait....

Posted by Skye on September 30, 2025, 5:34 am, in reply to "The FBI says 57th for violent crime."

Until they get the new numbers after firing all the people who don't give them the numbers or stats they want to see....

The new ranking will likely be 10 or worse.

Posted by 7:77 on September 30, 2025, 7:30 am, in reply to "Just wait...."

10 being the point at which Kash Patel runs out of fingers.

Exactly

Posted by trish on September 29, 2025, 7:23 am, in reply to "The FBI says 57th for violent crime."

but hey don't confuse him with pesky facts

Incorrect

Posted by Trish on September 28, 2025, 11:28 am, in reply to "Portland ranked the second most dangerous city..."

Memphis, Tennessee: Often ranked as the most dangerous city, with a violent crime rate significantly higher than the national average, particularly in terms of homicides.

Detroit, Michigan: Consistently ranks among the highest for violent crime rates, including aggravated assault.

St. Louis, Missouri: Frequently appears on lists of most dangerous cities, with high rates of aggravated assault and other violent crimes.

Baltimore, Maryland: Faces high rates of homicides and assaults, often linked to gang and drug activity.

Oakland, California: Has appeared on multiple lists of dangerous cities, including those focusing on California cities.

Birmingham, Alabama: Known for high rates of assault and robbery.

Kansas City, Missouri: Has a high violent crime rate, especially in certain neighborhoods.
New Orleans, Louisiana: Experiences challenges with violent crime, such as shootings and robberies.

Cleveland, Ohio: Features high rates of violent crime, including assault and robbery.
Albuquerque, New Mexico:

The authoritarianism has reached frightening levels.

Posted by Dancing Digits on September 27, 2025, 8:11 pm, in reply to "Portland...where Sen. Wyden posted live footage from that ICE facility."

The American that I once knew is disappearing.

Welcomed with open arms by about a third of the electorate, too.

Posted by 7:77 on September 28, 2025, 5:58 am, in reply to "The authoritarianism has reached frightening levels."

Absolutely classic method to gain that approval, too: give them an "other" that can be blamed for their troubles and position yourself as the hero to save them. It's so appallingly transparent to the rest of us, but there you have it.

what's the alternative to no intervention?

Posted by scott on September 28, 2025, 10:16 am, in reply to "Welcomed with open arms by about a third of the electorate, too."

Status quo...and it's been not great for years.

Re: what's the alternative to no intervention? Businesses going bust,

Posted by GOG on October 1, 2025, 5:57 am, in reply to "what's the alternative to no intervention? "

and fleeing from the inner city. San Francisco is a prime example. Taxpayers up and moving to red states to escape the criminal insurrection. No jail, no bail, free reign because the liberal administration won’t enforce the laws upon a certain demographic. Black punks. Ghetto thugs inflicting murder, drugs, mayhem upon black and white citizens. Enough !! Further the white rent a mobs must be infiltrated and arrested. Shut down.

False dichotomy.

Posted by 7:77 on September 28, 2025, 1:34 pm, in reply to "what's the alternative to no intervention? "

The alternatives to no intervention are varying degrees of intervention by the proper authorities. Enhanced law enforcement operations, that is, conducted by the proper authorities (local police, state police, state NG, in escalating order). There could possibly be a level at which federal intervention is justified...but the situation in Portland isn't remotely close to that level.

And the current level is acceptable to you? I'm trying to make sense of it for myself

Posted by scott on September 28, 2025, 5:20 pm, in reply to "False dichotomy."

There has been no cooperation from state or local authorities in reporting illegal immigrants crime... because they protect the " sanctuary state" created to give $$$$ and benefits to those created the agencies who determine the distribution of those funds. Which come from state taxes and federal funds received.
The resulting uptick in local taxes to maintain those " programs" have no apparent audits of how much and what real effect it has to improve them or the taxpayers positions... Who really wins this fight?

Certainly not taxpayers or citizens.

When you go into another country, isn't it usually to be productive and an asset, not a liability and a burden?

What other country in the world does that?

I bet Japan isn't on that list.

Don't EVER put words in my mouth.

Posted by 7:77 on September 28, 2025, 6:00 pm, in reply to "And the current level is acceptable to you? I'm trying to make sense of it for myself "

If I thought the status quo was acceptable, I'd have said so. What I've been saying all along (and am well tired of repeating, so this is my last post on this subject to you), is that there is no "war-ravaged" state of things in Portland to which it is appropriate for the federal government to respond. Crime rate issues in Portland need to be solved on a local and state level, by law enforcement personnel, the courts, and the correctional system. Not my federal military forces based on outright lies and dubious ultimate motivation.

I didn't, I wrote my own .. Oregon is number #1

Posted by scott on September 28, 2025, 6:34 pm, in reply to "Don't EVER put words in my mouth."

Portland, Oregon, has recently ranked as number one in several notable categories: coffee, vegan and vegetarian living, and for its concentration of residents between ages 35 and 49.
Culture and lifestyle.

Anyone can post a singular truth and defend that singular truth ..

But I guess we're done so..okay... enjoy your stay here .. hope your reasons for coming to Portland resolve any problems with good results.

"And the current level is acceptable to you?"

Posted by 7:77 on September 28, 2025, 6:58 pm, in reply to "I didn't, I wrote my own .. Oregon is number #1"

You get why a planted axiom like that is equivalent to putting words in someone's mouth, right?

But whatever...

I get that you're not down by the federal buildings ICE was sent to protect...

Posted by scott on September 28, 2025, 11:02 pm, in reply to ""And the current level is acceptable to you?""

It's not safe and you know it. It hasn't been safe for awhile now, and the environment socially and politically has been in a downwards spiral for many a year now ..mostly anarchistic.. and devoid of anything resembling the democracy our politicians say they are protecting... it's a farce and you know it. Being angry with anyone other than the local government here is ludicrous and dangerous...the idea of shifting blame towards the federal government because of some cowards in political official here isn't sane, it's inaccurate and unacceptable position.

Planted axioms work just like that ..and I'm glad you said it.

I'm not here to offend you... that's not intentional...but it's pretty weighty to put the bulk of Portland's real problems on a suspicion of some dictatorial nonsense accusations .. preposterous at best.

I'm in favor of law and order ..and this area.. will all over the U S.really, hasn't seen such lawlessness and lack of accountability in quite a few years.

What's "ludicrous and dangerous" is your head in the sand.

Posted by 7:77 on September 29, 2025, 1:24 pm, in reply to "I get that you're not down by the federal buildings ICE was sent to protect..."

Let's not pretend, either of us, to be concerned about insulting the other, okay? I dislike false pretense.

If being around the ICE facility protests is "dangerous," feel free to cite some accounts of substantial physical harm to people resulting from same. If you find anything - and even if you don't - I have already happily recognized that there is justification for additional federal police/marshal presence. But that in no way approaches what the threshold should be for invocation of the Insurrection Act and deployment of military force. None of Portland's other crime problems (which are pretty damn far down the list as US cities go, as I've already pointed out) remotely justify such extreme measures. It's the business of local authorities, period.

I get that those authorities are generally incompetent and worthless...Portland city government has been a joke for decades. But that calls for fixing that problems...not for creating a host of worse problems by enabling authoritarian expansion.

You can shove your head firmly into the sand and sling insults that pointing out the obvious is "insane" all you like. You've made it clear that you have no problem with authoritarianism on the rise and gross overreach by federal authorities. That makes us enemies.

enemies..

Posted by scott on September 30, 2025, 1:48 pm, in reply to "What's "ludicrous and dangerous" is your head in the sand."

are the ones pointing lasers at aircraft...and they are illegal aliens too ... I guess not smart ones. I read they're already at a detention facility in Washington.

In July the number was in the hundreds of arrests in Washington... it's not published by the government as to the recent arrests...just the activity surrounding the federal facilities.

Immigration arrests surged last month in Washington - OPB https://share.google/HheLIl08Ut4kKnaL9

So be it if we are enemies.. that's your call not mine. I can't waiver from what I believe is a purposeful movement, by agitators, to inflate some political points... not productive measures..of which you yourself admit..our current local government is severely lacking.

Sorry to see your position about me but feel free to not ever reply to me again. I'm not sad .just serious about the area I live in .. and you left.

How many people claim to not trust politicians and yet here we are.

Posted by Dancing Digits on September 28, 2025, 7:55 am, in reply to "Welcomed with open arms by about a third of the electorate, too."

it's just recycled...

Posted by scott on September 27, 2025, 8:21 pm, in reply to "The authoritarianism has reached frightening levels."

It wasn't as dangerous, perhaps, in the 60s and 70s... but it's still clearly a lack of moral convictions and an answer for it.

You are welcome to your 'recycled America'.

Posted by Dancing Digits on September 28, 2025, 7:50 am, in reply to "it's just recycled..."

The military is NOT a police force. It is not trained to do police duties.

The military's first and foremost sworn duty is to defend the US Constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic - it is NOT to the POTUS. It is a checks and balance counter power to thwart a POTUS from grabbing power s/he is not legally entitled to.

Trump has zero respect for the Constitution - and even less for the US citizens.

I never thought I would live to see the day when we would have occupied cities by our own military.

Again... it's not an occupation, as you're led to believe...

Posted by scott on September 28, 2025, 10:19 am, in reply to "You are welcome to your 'recycled America'. "

But you're welcome to your opinion... You don't live here with the effects of the present administrations lack of care for it's citizens and taxpayers...

Provide proof that

Posted by Dancing Digits on September 28, 2025, 12:43 pm, in reply to "Again... it's not an occupation, as you're led to believe..."

Portland is "war ravaged".

Posted on TruthSocial by Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump:

"At the request of Security of Homeland Security, Kristi Noem, I am directing Secretary of War, Pete Hegseth to protect War ravaged Portland, and any of our ICE facilities under siege from attack by Antifa, and other domestic terrorists. I am also authorizing Full Force, if necessary. Thank you for your attention in this matter."

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/115276694936263266

I don't have to live in Portland for it to be my concern/business when the POTUS grabs power he is not entitled to.

An occupation, by definition, is usually by a foreign country

Posted by scott on September 28, 2025, 5:36 pm, in reply to "Provide proof that"

and a foreign military occupation is clearly MOT here..the state will maintain its own authority and resume the same...the benefitting citizens who have asked but not received help from the state actually cheer the liberating atmosphere.

The numbers of "serious and viscous" crimes have gone down in the last 7-8 months .but I wouldn't credit the current state government for that. Not sure anyone can take that credit .but everything else, crime wise, is at a disproportionate level.

We lock doors. Keep our garages locked. And venture not into the city . there's just no reason to go there anymore.. it's not safe.

It most certainly is..

Posted by trish on September 28, 2025, 11:30 am, in reply to "Again... it's not an occupation, as you're led to believe..."

just watch. They will overreach more, and more, and more

I live here Trish

Posted by scott on September 28, 2025, 5:43 pm, in reply to "It most certainly is.."

I'm not afraid of our citizens rights being protected for once ..they haven't been for years now.

You worry about an individual you hate and fall to pieces just hearing his name and concocted accusations about..but when those lies run their course...and truth starts talking...will you still deny the wrongdoings of other's who misled and got you to believe them because they wanted to protect power?

Fall to pieces. Now who’s the drama queen.

Posted by The GateKeeper on September 29, 2025, 11:39 am, in reply to "I live here Trish "

fall to pieces that's what you call statements that

Posted by Trish on September 29, 2025, 7:26 am, in reply to "I live here Trish "

counter yours?

I don't want to hear about "protected power" considering how many constitutional points this administration has bulldozed through

No wonder you love this administration

Recall "Gulf of Tonkin Incident". "Governments are NEVER to be trusted, not even the BEST of them.

Posted by DFM on September 27, 2025, 7:54 pm, in reply to "Portland...where Sen. Wyden posted live footage from that ICE facility."

what Ice does

Posted by scott on September 28, 2025, 10:38 am, in reply to "Recall "Gulf of Tonkin Incident". "Governments are NEVER to be trusted, not even the BEST of them."

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/17Tfx4wNRo/

ICE are gestapo thugs who deserve zero respect and should be obstructed at every opportunity.

Posted by KR on September 29, 2025, 5:17 pm, in reply to "what Ice does"

Unlike your ANTIFA and BLM thugs. You lawless.

Posted by GOG on October 1, 2025, 6:00 am, in reply to "ICE are gestapo thugs who deserve zero respect and should be obstructed at every opportunity."

ICE is gonna chill your punks down and out.

ICE is a Federal Law Enforcement Agency.

Posted by DFM on September 30, 2025, 10:15 am, in reply to "ICE are gestapo thugs who deserve zero respect and should be obstructed at every opportunity."

Do you wish to live in a law-abiding nation? If so, you must assist, not impede ICE.

What ICE does is act like bullies with complete freedom

Posted by trish on September 28, 2025, 11:33 am, in reply to "what Ice does"

to break the law while purportedly enforcing it. No identification, no warrants, no facial recognition. It's all intimidation. There is nothing remotely professional about using 6 or more people to "take down" a terribly scarry landscaper or restaruant worker.

There is no honor in distroying property in their wake, including when they have done so MISTAKENLY

Where are the hardened criminals

Why are people who are trying to do their legal duty stopped from doing so at court? You can't have it both ways. You say you want people follow the law to become citizens then block them from so doing?

Hey, but ya know get those bounties

I only read fear in your reply.....that others have infused in your brain and heart

Posted by scott on September 28, 2025, 5:48 pm, in reply to "What ICE does is act like bullies with complete freedom"

Do you know what the actual numbers of illegals that have been arrested, detained, or deported?

As of late September 2025, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and other federal agencies under the Trump administration have arrested and removed hundreds of thousands of non-citizens. Detention figures have reached historic highs this year. Specific, up-to-the-minute numbers change frequently and vary by reporting source.
Arrests
Trump administration (Jan–Sept 2025): Approximately 260,000 internal arrests are projected for the full fiscal year, based on the current pace. In June 2025, ICE averaged about 1,200 arrests per day, with some days exceeding 2,000.
Criminal history: In August 2025, an estimated 35% of those arrested by ICE had criminal convictions, while another 30% had pending criminal charges. In September 2025, an analysis by The Economist found that non-criminal arrests outnumbered convicted-criminal ones for the first time since December 2023.
Biden administration (Feb 2021–Dec 2024): ICE conducted 500,842 internal arrests during this period. Over half of these were for immigration violations alone and did not involve a criminal history.
Detentions
Trump administration (Jan–Sept 2025): The number of people held in ICE detention facilities hit record levels in 2025, surpassing the previous peak in 2019.
August 29, 2025: 61,226 detainees were held in ICE facilities, a record high.
September 21, 2025: The number was 59,762.
Criminal history of detainees: In late September 2025, 71.5% of individuals held in ICE detention had no criminal convictions.
Deportations (removals)
Trump administration (Jan–Sept 2025): As of September 19, 2025, ICE had removed 302,192 people during the 2025 fiscal year. Approximately 216,423 of these occurred during the Trump administration, from January 26 to September 19. This does not include other federal agencies' repatriations or self-deportations.
Biden administration (FY 2021–2024): ICE's removals from the U.S. interior declined to an average of 38,000 per year, while border removals increased.
Obama administration: ICE removals reached a high of nearly 3 million during his two terms, earning him the nickname "deporter-in-chief" from some activists.
Outstanding removal orders: As of early 2025, about 1.5 million non-citizens had outstanding removal orders but have not been deported for various reasons, such as not being located or their home country not accepting their return.

She is paranoid. Probably should bleach her hair blond and

Posted by GOG on October 1, 2025, 6:03 am, in reply to "I only read fear in your reply.....that others have infused in your brain and heart"

wear a tennis dress with a tennis racket on the passenger seat. Either that or a Bible.

71% HAVE NO CRIMINAL RECORD

Posted by trish on September 29, 2025, 7:30 am, in reply to "I only read fear in your reply.....that others have infused in your brain and heart"

yeah, that's going after the worst of the worst.

I am fortunate. I'm lilly white. But this is becomming a proverbial witch hunt.

Sit back... be comfy while families are torn apart.

Tell me Scott, if they really wanted people to go through the legal process why are they stopping people at the court house?

yeah...White Nationalism (blech)

Does it occur to you that someone can be furious with the actions of the administraion and not be afraid of it. I FEAR FOR OTHERS. Try it sometime. Jesus would approve.

ALL illegal immigrants ARE CRIMINALS by definition.

Posted by DFM on September 29, 2025, 11:18 pm, in reply to "71% HAVE NO CRIMINAL RECORD"

Some seem to not understand the immigration laws. Nor want to.

Posted by GOG on September 30, 2025, 7:30 am, in reply to "ALL illegal immigrants ARE CRIMINALS by definition."

It’s the usual brain dead woke mob that thinks it’s okay to give a free pass to parasites.

Not all.

Posted by 7:77 on September 30, 2025, 7:27 am, in reply to "ALL illegal immigrants ARE CRIMINALS by definition."

Many undocumented aliens have not committed a criminal offense; they have instead committed civil violations, which are not legally classified as crimes. However, those who enter without being inspected at a port of entry (or those returning while under a deportation order) are indeed guilty of a criminal offense.

Those who overstay a visa or remain in the country without proper current authorization are not criminals although they are subject to deportation.

But I believe Trish's point is that the majority of those being detained by ICE have no other criminal (or civil) infractions on their record. While they certainly remain legally subject to detention and deportation, it is absolutely valid to question whether this is an intelligent use of resources. Most such are working taxpayers contributing to society.

thank you for saying it much better than I did

Posted by trish on September 30, 2025, 8:04 am, in reply to "Not all."

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