The Deuce

The Deuce
[ The Deuce ]

TROSSARD!! (Kickball)*

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 10, 2026, 12:16:08

One-nil to the Arsenal.

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

Quite the roller coaster day for Chelsea fans

Posted by dk <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=dk' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 16, 2026, 15:09:31, in reply to "TROSSARD!! (Kickball)*"

Start the day losing the FA Cup final to Man City, but a short while later Xabi Alonso announced as the new manager

illinigifs.imgur.com

Phrasing, people.

Posted by SurfTheBoneyard <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=SurfTheBoneyard' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 13, 2026, 16:34:25, in reply to "TROSSARD!! (Kickball)*"

Sky Marshal of the Luftwaffle

“Surf is just a national treasure.” — Jackie

Well City got three and could have had more…

Palace was ass today. Hopefully they stay ass for a couple weeks.

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

Sky Marshal of the Luftwaffle

“Surf is just a national treasure.” — Jackie

Up the Clarets!*

Posted by Chicago1995 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Chicago1995' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 13, 2026, 16:12:19, in reply to "Well City got three and could have had more…"

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Palace was ass today. Hopefully they stay ass for a couple weeks.

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

Big time Pep Roulette today*

Posted by Sounder <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Sounder' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 13, 2026, 14:32:12, in reply to "TROSSARD!! (Kickball)*"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

Foden finding his form.*

Posted by Chicago1995 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Chicago1995' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 13, 2026, 15:10:38, in reply to "Big time Pep Roulette today*"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

Anyone watch the first episode of the HBO USMNT docuseries last night?

Posted by Blazer <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Blazer' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 13, 2026, 14:29:30, in reply to "TROSSARD!! (Kickball)*"

Pretty underwhelming overall, but I will say the biggest take away: Gregggggggg is a just an absolute loser. Total Beckman/Eberflus vibes.

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

I can’t do it. They’re all losers. *

Posted by assassin <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=assassin' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 13, 2026, 14:35:47, in reply to "Anyone watch the first episode of the HBO USMNT docuseries last night?"

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Pretty underwhelming overall, but I will say the biggest take away: Gregggggggg is a just an absolute loser. Total Beckman/Eberflus vibes.

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

Brandon Schrock of Laredo, Texas, told the federal government that his employer was “poop,” and his occupation was “pooper.”

McDonald's agrees to become new Chicago Fire stadium naming partner

Posted by assassin <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=assassin' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 13, 2026, 14:11:23, in reply to "TROSSARD!! (Kickball)*"

[Connery] Welcome...to the MAC [/Connery]

Front Office Sports
@FOS
Chicago Fire FC's new $750M stadium will be named McDonald's Park, the first time McDonald's has had naming rights to a major U.S. pro sports venue.

There will be a permanent McDonald's restaurant in the stadium.

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

Brandon Schrock of Laredo, Texas, told the federal government that his employer was “poop,” and his occupation was “pooper.”

Lot of Grimaces here at McDonald’s Park…*

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[Connery] Welcome...to the MAC [/Connery]

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

Sky Marshal of the Luftwaffle

“Surf is just a national treasure.” — Jackie

Much like the ice cream machines, the side's defense has taken the night off *

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[Connery] Welcome...to the MAC [/Connery]

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

Brandon Schrock of Laredo, Texas, told the federal government that his employer was “poop,” and his occupation was “pooper.”

Man City v Palace today

Oddsmakers give Palace about a 1 in 4 chance to take points off them. Not likely but that would be glorious.

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

Sky Marshal of the Luftwaffle

“Surf is just a national treasure.” — Jackie

So much for that.*

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Oddsmakers give Palace about a 1 in 4 chance to take points off them. Not likely but that would be glorious.

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

Sky Marshal of the Luftwaffle

“Surf is just a national treasure.” — Jackie

FA Cup Final in 3 days. Haaland, Cherki and Doku on the bench.*

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Oddsmakers give Palace about a 1 in 4 chance to take points off them. Not likely but that would be glorious.

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

Sky Marshal of the Luftwaffle

“Surf is just a national treasure.” — Jackie

TROGDOR!! (Burninating)*

Posted by Gene Parmesan <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Gene+Parmesan' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 12, 2026, 9:50:52, in reply to "TROSSARD!! (Kickball)*"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

OPTA has it 81-19 West Ham after that.

Posted by SurfTheBoneyard <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=SurfTheBoneyard' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 16:23:12, in reply to "TROSSARD!! (Kickball)*"

Spurs essentially have a 3 point lead due to GD.

They go to Chelsea who are in shambles and host Everton, while WHAM are at Newcastle (also bad lately) and host Leeds which is probably in the best form of all of them.

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

Sky Marshal of the Luftwaffle

“Surf is just a national treasure.” — Jackie

Spurs lose to Chelsea, draw Everton. West Ham lose to NUFC, draw with Leeds

Posted by MC <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=MC' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 16:31:53, in reply to "OPTA has it 81-19 West Ham after that."

I don’t see a win here but if I did, it’s Spurs against Everton

Hello, is this President Clinton? Good! I figured if anyone knew where to get some Tang, it'd be you.

Eh? That surprises me. But sportsbooks show similar it looks like*

Posted by Carl Spackler <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Carl+Spackler' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 16:27:18, in reply to "OPTA has it 81-19 West Ham after that."

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

That’s a pen*

Posted by ATL <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=ATL' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 16:05:04, in reply to "TROSSARD!! (Kickball)*"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

“We are old and tired and just want to be taken care of.” - Republican voter, Dec. 2024.

you are misinformed.*

Posted by Poldark <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Poldark' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 16:06:01, in reply to "That’s a pen*"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

Social Misfit who wants to coach Illinois women's basketball.

"Friday tailgates suck. People have jobs and school."

MOAR VAR*

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 16:04:34, in reply to "TROSSARD!! (Kickball)*"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

Wanted it but think thats right *

Posted by ISeeDeadHawkeyes <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=ISeeDeadHawkeyes' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 16:05:04, in reply to "MOAR VAR*"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

i think the defender got a toe on it*

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 16:06:46, in reply to "Wanted it but think thats right *"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

13!*

Posted by ATL <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=ATL' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 15:51:56, in reply to "TROSSARD!! (Kickball)*"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

“We are old and tired and just want to be taken care of.” - Republican voter, Dec. 2024.

WHOA*

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 15:59:34, in reply to "13!*"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

that was an amazing save*

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 16:14:40, in reply to "WHOA*"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

This is all Aston Villa’s fault. This is when Arsenal said fine we will play that

Posted by MC <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=MC' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 15:17:59, in reply to "TROSSARD!! (Kickball)*"

https://x.com/demetrius3244/status/2053548218030416267?s=20

Hello, is this President Clinton? Good! I figured if anyone knew where to get some Tang, it'd be you.

we were repeatedly told "Ramsdale needs to be stronger, there"*

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 15:21:44, in reply to "This is all Aston Villa’s fault. This is when Arsenal said fine we will play that "

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https://x.com/demetrius3244/status/2053548218030416267?s=20

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

Ritchie probably should have been booked there *

Posted by ATL <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=ATL' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 15:08:49, in reply to "TROSSARD!! (Kickball)*"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

“We are old and tired and just want to be taken care of.” - Republican voter, Dec. 2024.

really nice strike from Tel*

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 15:12:18, in reply to "Ritchie probably should have been booked there *"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

uhhh, i think that's a pen. *

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 15:31:03, in reply to "really nice strike from Tel*"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

oooo, we're gonna get another day of VAR talk*

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 15:35:15, in reply to "uhhh, i think that's a pen. *"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

You know…you leave the bar for 5 minutes to take a work call and it all goes to shit.*

Posted by ATL <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=ATL' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 15:45:25, in reply to "oooo, we're gonna get another day of VAR talk*"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

“We are old and tired and just want to be taken care of.” - Republican voter, Dec. 2024.

i feel like it was more "sticking your head in so it gets kicked" vs anything malicious*

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 15:53:16, in reply to "You know…you leave the bar for 5 minutes to take a work call and it all goes to shit.*"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

That's exactly what it was. You have to be able to follow through on your legitimate football moves

Posted by ATL <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=ATL' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 12, 2026, 9:52:44, in reply to "i feel like it was more "sticking your head in so it gets kicked" vs anything malicious*"

it's not like he left his foot in or anything - this was a natural footballing move and the Leeds player stuck his head in there. It's like dangling a leg looking for contact - that's not called a foul all the time.

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

“We are old and tired and just want to be taken care of.” - Republican voter, Dec. 2024.

Rumor, Alonso is Chelsea is close *

Posted by MC <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=MC' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 13:39:43, in reply to "TROSSARD!! (Kickball)*"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

Hello, is this President Clinton? Good! I figured if anyone knew where to get some Tang, it'd be you.

what a snaking to liverpool that would be*

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 15:16:52, in reply to "Rumor, Alonso is Chelsea is close *"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

also, The Special One to Madrid?*

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 14:27:20, in reply to "Rumor, Alonso is Chelsea is close *"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

To be a fly on that wall....

Posted by Chicago1995 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Chicago1995' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 14:39:59, in reply to "also, The Special One to Madrid?*"

Vini, Kylian and Jude vs. the Special One?

That's going to work GREAT!

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

exactly my thought*

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 14:45:09, in reply to "To be a fly on that wall...."

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Vini, Kylian and Jude vs. the Special One?

That's going to work GREAT!

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

there could be trouble in that dressing room at some future date*

Posted by Sammich <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Sammich' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 14:45:59, in reply to "exactly my thought*"

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Vini, Kylian and Jude vs. the Special One?

That's going to work GREAT!

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

I want to break it up
I want to smash it up
I want to #### it up
I want to watch it come down

Fede Valverde will tell you about trouble in that locker room, once his TBI clears.*

Posted by Chicago1995 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Chicago1995' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 14:46:54, in reply to "there could be trouble in that dressing room at some future date*"

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Vini, Kylian and Jude vs. the Special One?

That's going to work GREAT!

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

I was trying to obliquely reference that, but I overdid the oblique*

Posted by Sammich <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Sammich' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 14:49:22, in reply to "Fede Valverde will tell you about trouble in that locker room, once his TBI clears.*"

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Vini, Kylian and Jude vs. the Special One?

That's going to work GREAT!

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

I want to break it up
I want to smash it up
I want to #### it up
I want to watch it come down

I figured.

Posted by Chicago1995 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Chicago1995' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 14:50:45, in reply to "I was trying to obliquely reference that, but I overdid the oblique*"

I wanted to be more subtle, but was struggling.

What a shit show though.

And boy is the PR campaign in full effect balming Valverde for all the problems. Tanking his market value though.

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Vini, Kylian and Jude vs. the Special One?

That's going to work GREAT!

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

Wendy's*

Vini, Kylian and Jude vs. the Special One?

That's going to work GREAT!

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

Wonder who will replace him in January.*

Posted by Chicago1995 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Chicago1995' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 13:54:33, in reply to "Rumor, Alonso is Chelsea is close *"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

ooo

Posted by SurfTheBoneyard <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=SurfTheBoneyard' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 7:28:40, in reply to "TROSSARD!! (Kickball)*"

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1K8xioBkbA/?mibextid=wwXIfr

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

Sky Marshal of the Luftwaffle

“Surf is just a national treasure.” — Jackie

100% a foul

Posted by dk <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=dk' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 10, 2026, 13:11:46, in reply to "TROSSARD!! (Kickball)*"

but it's too bad they didn't allow the goal so we could see Arsenal fans suddenly complaining about goalkeeper interference after not saying a word when they scored plenty of set piece goals interfering as much as possible with goalkeepers throughout the season.

illinigifs.imgur.com

No one has found any clip of an Arsenal player holding the GK arm though

Posted by MC <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=MC' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 13:37:25, in reply to "100% a foul"

There is other interference, absolutely. But I don’t see anything that aggressively obvious. I’ve seen the clip of Ben White holding the Leicester City keeper hand last year but ref waived off the goal and called a foul. So they did the same yesterday?

People saying it wasn’t a foul, not you but all over, are delusional. The correct argument is that refs have not managed the box enough or at all during the season and teams just continually pushed the line more and more but once it was too far, it’s become a hey why did you call a foul now? Maybe you should have done all year refs.

Hello, is this President Clinton? Good! I figured if anyone knew where to get some Tang, it'd be you.

there's a difference between being in the keeper's way, which is legal

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 8:29:42, in reply to "100% a foul"

and having one player hold the keeper's shirt to stop him from jumping and another hold his arm while he's going to reach for the ball.

i've seen every example of "arsenal always getting away with it" and they're not the same thing. the closest is saliba with his hand on bayinder's arm before the ball comes in v. Man United. that probably should have been given, but it's still not the same thing.

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"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

Not referring to being in the keeper's way as players do have a right to stand their ground

Posted by dk <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=dk' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 12:15:40, in reply to "there's a difference between being in the keeper's way, which is legal"

The main tactic is shoving defenders into the keeper as the ball is being kicked so they are indirectly fouled and temporarily stopped from making their way toward the incoming ball. No hands on them as the ball arrives so nothing is ever called. Those shoves on defenders as well as bear hugs/tackles on defenders during set pieces are not called the vast majority of the time now as it happens multiple times on every single set piece (even on the VAR goal Arsenal was bear hugging/impeding multiple West Ham players) so it is the equivalent of college basketball can't call them all defense but definitely illegal. It has gotten worse in recent years as teams realize the refs don't call it so they push things even more, but the comment was about how Arsenal has led the way in terms of the push things even more in recent seasons and especially this season.

Fouling a keeper may be more clear cut, but the amount of illegal play on set pieces that has not been called this season has been insane and something does need to happen to change that or it will continue to get worse and make the game unwatchable.

illinigifs.imgur.com

again, we've come to this referendum on needing overhaul on rules because of a *correct call*. *

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 13:06:16, in reply to "Not referring to being in the keeper's way as players do have a right to stand their ground"

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"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

By no means, do I think there is 100% clarity on this being a "correct call"

Posted by Sounder <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Sounder' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 13:08:31, in reply to "again, we've come to this referendum on needing overhaul on rules because of a *correct call*. *"

mainly because I can't tell for sure if the offensive player wasn't pushed into Raya.

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which one?

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 13:15:40, in reply to "By no means, do I think there is 100% clarity on this being a "correct call""

the one holding raya's shirt from behind or the one with his arm across raya's throat holding raya's left arm down?

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

The one with his arm across Raya's body

Posted by Sounder <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Sounder' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 13:18:22, in reply to "which one? "

I think it was there because he was pushed off balance. Again, I think it was the right call, but JFC the whole play was a total mess, and that's the problem.

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the one holding raya's shirt from behind or the one with his arm across raya's throat holding raya's left arm down?

he literally reaches across raya's throat to grab raya's arm as he's going up to grab the ball

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 13:20:08, in reply to "The one with his arm across Raya's body"

the ball is only not grabbed cleanly because of this and the other west ham player tugging his shirt preventing him from jumping.

on what continent is this not a foul?

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I think it was there because he was pushed off balance. Again, I think it was the right call, but JFC the whole play was a total mess, and that's the problem.

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the one holding raya's shirt from behind or the one with his arm across raya's throat holding raya's left arm down?

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

Fouls on set pieces should be called the same as fouls in open play. And fouls against the keeper

Posted by ATL <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=ATL' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 12:21:23, in reply to "Not referring to being in the keeper's way as players do have a right to stand their ground"

should not take priority over fouls against outfield players.

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“We are old and tired and just want to be taken care of.” - Republican voter, Dec. 2024.

I'm not sure I agree with that statement

Posted by Sounder <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Sounder' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 12:32:00, in reply to "Fouls on set pieces should be called the same as fouls in open play. And fouls against the keeper"

and we for sure know that it isn't the case in reality.

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should not take priority over fouls against outfield players.

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I didn't say what is, I said what it should be. And if you can find me a law of the game that says

Posted by ATL <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=ATL' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 12:34:17, in reply to "I'm not sure I agree with that statement"

that fouls should be called differently as between outfield players and keepers or set pieces and open play, I'd be happy to read it and change my opinion accordingly.

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and we for sure know that it isn't the case in reality.

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should not take priority over fouls against outfield players.

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“We are old and tired and just want to be taken care of.” - Republican voter, Dec. 2024.

Have you ever been a referee before?

Posted by Sounder <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Sounder' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 12:38:58, in reply to "I didn't say what is, I said what it should be. And if you can find me a law of the game that says"

You are constantly making judgment calls. The goal is to set the proper tone for the game and to be consistent in how you call the game? It's also important to not make it about you. If you think the bar for calling fouls in the box is every going to be the same as calling fouls in the open field, you are mistaken.

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that fouls should be called differently as between outfield players and keepers or set pieces and open play, I'd be happy to read it and change my opinion accordingly.

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and we for sure know that it isn't the case in reality.

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should not take priority over fouls against outfield players.

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You think referees picking and choosing when to enforce the rules is making it not about them?*

Posted by ATL <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=ATL' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 12:42:20, in reply to "Have you ever been a referee before?"

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that fouls should be called differently as between outfield players and keepers or set pieces and open play, I'd be happy to read it and change my opinion accordingly.

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and we for sure know that it isn't the case in reality.

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should not take priority over fouls against outfield players.

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“We are old and tired and just want to be taken care of.” - Republican voter, Dec. 2024.

Sadly he is right and plenty of refs do see it that way

Posted by dk <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=dk' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 12:46:50, in reply to "You think referees picking and choosing when to enforce the rules is making it not about them?*"

Clattenburg: I let Spurs self-destruct in 'Battle of the Bridge'

“I went in with a game-plan: that I didn’t want Tottenham Hotspur blaming Mark Clattenburg that they were losing the title."

illinigifs.imgur.com

But that's not the same thing as what we're arguing. We're arguing about whether pulling someone

Posted by ATL <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=ATL' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 12:53:51, in reply to "Sadly he is right and plenty of refs do see it that way"

down from behind should be a foul or not. I'm arguing that it makes no difference whether it happens on a set piece of in open play. That it is a foul either way.

Clattenberg's retconning the Battle of the Bridge because he completely lost control of the match. He should probably have sent Rose, Lamela and Dier off. I mean, Lamela stamped on Cesc. WTF?

“We are old and tired and just want to be taken care of.” - Republican voter, Dec. 2024.

I'm not agreeing with Clattenberg's thought process on staying invisible

Posted by dk <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=dk' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 13:03:33, in reply to "But that's not the same thing as what we're arguing. We're arguing about whether pulling someone "

Just was pointing out a very high profile example of a ref doing that and why it causes problems.

I agree with you on the different refereeing in set pieces vs open play. Feels very similar to the idea of different rules for basketball in the 1st half vs the final play of games. Always hated that you can murder someone on the final play because refs don't want to get involved.

A bad call affects the game regardless of when/where/how it takes place. You shouldn't changes rules because there is more attention when bad calls take place during certain circumstances.

illinigifs.imgur.com

I used to communicate a lot with the players when I was reffing

Posted by Sounder <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Sounder' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 13:06:28, in reply to "I'm not agreeing with Clattenberg's thought process on staying invisible"

Sometimes simply telling someone to knock it off with a verbal warning helps a lot, especially when followed up with a yellow card if it happens again.

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Agree that communication is very important

Posted by dk <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=dk' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 13:19:59, in reply to "I used to communicate a lot with the players when I was reffing"

both for letting players know what to expect like you said and for keeping fans from getting upset or going down conspiracy rabbit holes on why calls were/were not made. Broadcast the actual discussion and/or detailed reasoning from VAR officials and fans will be happier (or the way VAR decisions are made will quickly change if they don't make sense in terms of following the rules consistently). And that reasoning needs to be detailed, explain what rule was involved and exactly why the rule was or was not broken. No generalized statements. Player did X which breaks rule Y or does not break that rule for reason Z.

Also when incorrect decisions are made when VAR is involved the league needs to punish those involved in a way that will improve future decisions (incorrect as in the broadcast discussion from VAR goes against the actual rules for the discussed play). Whether that is suspending refs, sending them down a level for a while, etc. If the ref knows there is a consequence for not applying rules consistently, they will do so in the future. As long as VAR exists giving refs tons of time and information/angles to make a decision, full transparency in those decisions is necessary or fans will always assume the worst.

I don't watch those sports, but I feel like I hear about other sports like rugby where the ref has to give a full explanation for decisions to the crowd and there is not the same issue there with fans questioning calls.

illinigifs.imgur.com

Also in the end any given ref can't change anything beyond themself

Posted by dk <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=dk' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 13:31:57, in reply to "Agree that communication is very important"

The changes need to be at the system level. Unless the PL/PGMOL makes certain changes to the rules and/or how those rules are applied by the refs, and most importantly sticks to those changes, things will continue to be the same. Even when they have called for changes to things in the past (such as penalizing players for surrounding the ref after fouls) the new standard tends to be applied for a few weeks to start the next season before it is eventually ignored and things return to the way they were. It may be applied on an inconsistent basis still, but that doesn't help. Either those organizations decide the exact standard for things like what is allowed on set pieces and strictly enforce that standard every week, or the line pushing always returns and fans will always complain when the inconsistency affects their team.

illinigifs.imgur.com

I refereed way too many games in high school and college

Posted by Sounder <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Sounder' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 12:50:01, in reply to "Sadly he is right and plenty of refs do see it that way"

and was the youngest level 7 referee in Illinois history. We were always taught that you knew you did a good job as an official when you were basically invisible. I've never been a fan of the big showy center officials who love to make it about themselves.

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Clattenburg: I let Spurs self-destruct in 'Battle of the Bridge'

“I went in with a game-plan: that I didn’t want Tottenham Hotspur blaming Mark Clattenburg that they were losing the title."

I'm saying that you have to establish a line and try to keep that line

Posted by Sounder <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Sounder' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 12:45:59, in reply to "You think referees picking and choosing when to enforce the rules is making it not about them?*"

and respectfully, if you've never refereed, especially a a reasonably high level, you probably don't understand.

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that fouls should be called differently as between outfield players and keepers or set pieces and open play, I'd be happy to read it and change my opinion accordingly.

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and we for sure know that it isn't the case in reality.

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should not take priority over fouls against outfield players.

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The problem is players/teams realized you can't call a penalty on every set piece

Posted by dk <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=dk' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 12:52:20, in reply to "I'm saying that you have to establish a line and try to keep that line"

so now that line is permanently being pushed. At this point refs realize if they call it once (aside from blatant fouls like grabbing a keeper) teams will rightfully point out the hundreds of other times they ignored identical fouls on previous set pieces and the media will focus on the ref's inconsistency. So the refs just ignore all of the fouls and it gets worse and worse until set pieces have basically become WWE at this point.

I have never been a ref and realize how impossible of a job it is, but once they started ignoring set piece fouls it was inevitable that it would become an uncontrollable situation.

illinigifs.imgur.com

This part is definitely true, and it they probably need to reset some boundaries

Posted by Sounder <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Sounder' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 12:55:05, in reply to "The problem is players/teams realized you can't call a penalty on every set piece"

because it's gotten completely ridiculous.

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Next season, don’t stop play but have a VAR review after each set piece

Posted by DT <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=DT' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 12:59:28, in reply to "This part is definitely true, and it they probably need to reset some boundaries"

Give a yellow for every egregious foul. Once 8 guys get yellows on the first corner, it will stop pretty quick.

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because it's gotten completely ridiculous.

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I do think something has to give

Posted by Sounder <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Sounder' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 13:01:12, in reply to "Next season, don’t stop play but have a VAR review after each set piece"

My bigger pet peeves with VAR are 1) I have no idea what a handball is and isn't more and 2) there is no way the spirit of the game intended that if you're an eight of an inch offsides through a camera that the goal shouldn't be allowed.

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Give a yellow for every egregious foul. Once 8 guys get yellows on the first corner, it will stop pretty quick.

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because it's gotten completely ridiculous.

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The handball rule in UEFA competitions is totally ridiculous

Posted by UIHuskie <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=UIHuskie' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 13:22:46, in reply to "I do think something has to give"

Offsides doesn't bother me as much because it's clearly defined in the rulebook and you have to draw a line somewhere.

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Give a yellow for every egregious foul. Once 8 guys get yellows on the first corner, it will stop pretty quick.

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because it's gotten completely ridiculous.

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having been on both ends of the benefit on the UEFA handball rule, it's completely dumb.

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 14:07:55, in reply to "The handball rule in UEFA competitions is totally ridiculous"

and i see both sides on offside and don't know which is the correct one. i lean towards the current rule because the alternative brings an unnecessary level of subjectivity.

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

UEFA handball rule sucks

Posted by Chicago1995 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Chicago1995' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 14:26:27, in reply to "having been on both ends of the benefit on the UEFA handball rule, it's completely dumb. "

I have no idea what to do with offsides.

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and i see both sides on offside and don't know which is the correct one. i lean towards the current rule because the alternative brings an unnecessary level of subjectivity.

You mean you have to establish two lines. One for set pieces, and one for open play.

Posted by ATL <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=ATL' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 12:47:35, in reply to "I'm saying that you have to establish a line and try to keep that line"

I don't have to have refereed to know that makes no sense.

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and respectfully, if you've never refereed, especially a a reasonably high level, you probably don't understand.

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that fouls should be called differently as between outfield players and keepers or set pieces and open play, I'd be happy to read it and change my opinion accordingly.

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and we for sure know that it isn't the case in reality.

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should not take priority over fouls against outfield players.

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“We are old and tired and just want to be taken care of.” - Republican voter, Dec. 2024.

The call was right. But it’s also not the way it’s been treated all year

Posted by Chicago1995 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Chicago1995' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 10, 2026, 13:59:46, in reply to "100% a foul"

The inconsistency is the problem.

They need to either completely rethink how they use VAR or dump it.

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the fallout from yesterday is pure fucking madness. as an example,

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 9:25:17, in reply to "The call was right. But it’s also not the way it’s been treated all year"

"completely rethink how they use VAR or dump it"

BECAUSE THEY GOT THE CALL RIGHT.

Meanwhile on Saturday, City should have had a red on Silva AND two other penalties against them with none of it called and no one said shit.

It's insanity.

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The inconsistency is the problem. They need to either completely rethink how they use VAR or dump it.

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"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

Thing is, they got that one right. And that means they got how many wrong?

Posted by Chicago1995 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Chicago1995' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 12:35:59, in reply to "the fallout from yesterday is pure fucking madness. as an example, "

If they got that one right, there's lots of set pieces/corners with that kind of contact and impeding of a keeper that they've just let go all year. Those can't be right too.

Hell, I'm still trying to figure out how Gabriel didn't get a straight red for the head butt. How Keane didn't get a red for the foul on Doku last Monday. How Bruno didn't get a straight red in the Liverpool match ten days ago. How Declan Rice could tackle Joao Pedro *and* make contact off a corner with his arm and have nothing called.

It's all stuff that is clear and obvious that VAR doesn't fix. This version of it does not do what it is supposed to do. Fix it or scrap it all together.

FWIW, plenty of people did scream about the two supposed penalties City should have given up on Saturday. One of them Nunes *probably* got the ball, but if it had been given on the field, it would have stood. The other one? The Brentford guy tripped over his own two feet. No contact from Nunes at all. But there was plenty of people bitching on line about those calls.

As for Bernie, it's a bad look. VAR should have done something. But it didn't. Like, for example, the aforementioned head butt ...

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The inconsistency is the problem. They need to either completely rethink how they use VAR or dump it.

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way too much, "it's the right call, but...."

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 13:14:17, in reply to "Thing is, they got that one right. And that means they got how many wrong? "

i said at the time gabriel was lucky he wasn't sent off.

you can point to any number of anecdotes that a team got a call in their favor- and the actual stats show that in the VAR era, Arsenal are 22nd out of 27 PL teams in terms of being favored by VAR- but this isn't even a call in our favor, it's just a correct call.

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

It's a correct call. Which makes other calls that have benefitted Arsenal incorrect.

Posted by Chicago1995 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Chicago1995' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 13:50:21, in reply to "way too much, "it's the right call, but....""

Looking at yesterday's call devoid of the context of how plays like that have been officiated all season isn't right. It's not credible.

You're worthy champions. You've been the most consistent team in the league and are its best, if it's not most imaginative or attractive in your play.

You got a lucky break. All champions do. There's nothing wrong with admitting that you got a break, if not yesterday, then week 1 vs. United or in the game at Stamford Bridge. Or others.

It won't tarnish the trophy. There won't be an asterisk.

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"lucky break." come on.

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 14:01:30, in reply to "It's a correct call. Which makes other calls that have benefitted Arsenal incorrect."

and, again, big difference between "being in the keeper's way" and "holding the keeper's arm as he's going up for the ball."

implying they're all the same isn't right, nor is it credible.

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"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

Being in the keeper's way? Nothing more to discuss here.*

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and, again, big difference between "being in the keeper's way" and "holding the keeper's arm as he's going up for the ball."

implying they're all the same isn't right, nor is it credible.

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do you seriously not see the difference?*

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 14:09:22, in reply to "Being in the keeper's way? Nothing more to discuss here.*"

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and, again, big difference between "being in the keeper's way" and "holding the keeper's arm as he's going up for the ball."

implying they're all the same isn't right, nor is it credible.

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"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

I do, but I don't think we're just talking about "getting in the keeper's way"

Posted by Chicago1995 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Chicago1995' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 14:15:18, in reply to "do you seriously not see the difference?*"

Little more than that going on in a number of Arsenal goals off set pieces.

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and, again, big difference between "being in the keeper's way" and "holding the keeper's arm as he's going up for the ball."

implying they're all the same isn't right, nor is it credible.

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i've said that there's one that should have probably been ruled out.

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 14:22:00, in reply to "I do, but I don't think we're just talking about "getting in the keeper's way""

Saliba v. Man U earlier in the season.

He grabs the keeper before the ball comes in.

The other screenshots I've seen on repeat over the last 24 hours as the best examples of "arsenal always getting away with it" are poor and out of context snippets.

the one actual analog to this situation was at Leicester in 22-23 when ben white grabbed the keeper and scored and VAR reviewed it and rightly overturned it.

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

The two most clear comps to this I've seen both ended up as goals

Posted by Chicago1995 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Chicago1995' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 14:46:15, in reply to "i've said that there's one that should have probably been ruled out. "

The ManU example you mention and Donnarumma vs. Bournemouth. Gigio gets pulled off balance by his left arm and the goal is scored. He'd been "released" by the time the header went goalward, but he had no chance to recover or use us left arm.

The Gabriel vs. Villa where he clocked into Emi Martinez pretty good is a little dicey too IMO. Seen that one given as a foul in open play pretty regularly.

There's a difference too between some screening and the continued contact as a GK tries to make an attempt to play the ball. Number of instances where a GK starts to jump and the players moves into the GKs body. They can't jump as effectively or where they are trying to get to. That, to me, is a clear foul as well, and not all that different from what happened yesterday.

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Gabriel v. Emi was absolutely not a foul on Gabriel

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 14:59:03, in reply to "The two most clear comps to this I've seen both ended up as goals"

Gabriel is standing in front of Emi. Emi grabs Gabriel's jersey and tries to yank him back but can't move him. Then Emi two-hand shoves Gabriel in the back but Gabriel still has position.

Never a foul.

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

That's not clear and obvious to me. *

Posted by Chicago1995 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Chicago1995' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 15:12:06, in reply to "Gabriel v. Emi was absolutely not a foul on Gabriel"

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the "problem" with that play, IMO, is that there were seemingly 8 fouls happening at once

Posted by Sounder <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Sounder' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 12:17:09, in reply to "the fallout from yesterday is pure fucking madness. as an example, "

so which one do you call?

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The inconsistency is the problem. They need to either completely rethink how they use VAR or dump it.

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Whichever is first, which I believe they determined to be the foul on Raya*

Posted by UIHuskie <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=UIHuskie' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 12:24:42, in reply to "the "problem" with that play, IMO, is that there were seemingly 8 fouls happening at once"

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so which one do you call?

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The inconsistency is the problem. They need to either completely rethink how they use VAR or dump it.

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I think it was the right call

Posted by Sounder <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Sounder' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 12:31:12, in reply to "Whichever is first, which I believe they determined to be the foul on Raya*"

but I have major issues with the fact that it took so long to sort out, and that there is so much fuckery allowed on every corner kick. Arsenal is the worst in this regard. Rice had his hands completely around the waist of an offensive player.

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so which one do you call?

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The inconsistency is the problem. They need to either completely rethink how they use VAR or dump it.

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Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 13:07:35, in reply to "I think it was the right call"

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

would you rather it take 30 seconds and be wrong or take 5 minutes and be right?

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 13:07:34, in reply to "I think it was the right call"

especially when it could very well be the call that decides who wins the league.

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so which one do you call?

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The inconsistency is the problem. They need to either completely rethink how they use VAR or dump it.

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"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

The standard is "clear and obvious" not "absolutely always correct."

Posted by Chicago1995 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Chicago1995' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 13:53:11, in reply to "would you rather it take 30 seconds and be wrong or take 5 minutes and be right?"

I think it's completely fair to wonder if "clear and obvious" should be the stanard of review and if it is, if the way it has been interpreted and applied is right.

But the standard is "clear and obvious" and it's a fair question to wonder if something that takes 5 minutes is in fact clear and obvious.

(FWIW, I'd rather they get it right, even if it take more time. But the standard is what it is.)

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especially when it could very well be the call that decides who wins the league.

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so which one do you call?

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The inconsistency is the problem. They need to either completely rethink how they use VAR or dump it.

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i do believe this is clear and obvious. *

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 13:59:10, in reply to "The standard is "clear and obvious" not "absolutely always correct.""

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especially when it could very well be the call that decides who wins the league.

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so which one do you call?

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The inconsistency is the problem. They need to either completely rethink how they use VAR or dump it.

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"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

Fair enough. Given the length of time the review took, it might not have been.*

Posted by Chicago1995 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Chicago1995' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 14:01:11, in reply to "i do believe this is clear and obvious. *"

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especially when it could very well be the call that decides who wins the league.

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so which one do you call?

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The inconsistency is the problem. They need to either completely rethink how they use VAR or dump it.

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it was about 2 & 1/2 mins for VAR to look at all the different angles to send it to the ref

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 14:04:33, in reply to "Fair enough. Given the length of time the review took, it might not have been.*"

and about 2 more for the ref to look at those angles and make a decision.

given the gravity of the decision, don't you want them to look closely at it?

especially considering it was the right call? my god, what are we even arguing?

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especially when it could very well be the call that decides who wins the league.

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so which one do you call?

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The inconsistency is the problem. They need to either completely rethink how they use VAR or dump it.

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"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

Getting it right isn't the standard of review. It's is it a clear and obvious error.

Posted by Chicago1995 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Chicago1995' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 14:14:25, in reply to "it was about 2 & 1/2 mins for VAR to look at all the different angles to send it to the ref"

We're talking about them applying the VAR rules correctly -- which they need to do before they get to actual infraction.

Again, given the amount of time that it took, it's fair to question whether or not it is "clear and obvious." Again, there's also the problem of how that's been applied historically.

Was this foul more clear and obivous than Bernie's punch on Saturday? Than Gabriel's headbutt? Than Bruno getting Szobozlai mid calf with his studs way, way late in a tackle a couple of weeks ago? VAR didn't intervene in any of those -- all of which were more obvious, IMO.

My issue, honestly, is less with the result in this particular game than with how it highlights the inconsistency with officiating and the application of VAR. It needs to be improved. How can that be controversial.

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especially when it could very well be the call that decides who wins the league.

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so which one do you call?

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The inconsistency is the problem. They need to either completely rethink how they use VAR or dump it.

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but the amount of time it took, in addition to it being complex, is also contextual

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 14:18:55, in reply to "Getting it right isn't the standard of review. It's is it a clear and obvious error."

it's a call in the last 90 seconds of a match that could very well decide the league.

it should be treated differently, especially since they're adding the review time back in, anyway.

do you want a shot clock on the review?

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

Pretty fundamentally disagree on your first point.

Posted by Chicago1995 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Chicago1995' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 14:39:17, in reply to "but the amount of time it took, in addition to it being complex, is also contextual"

That call might well decide the league, but it absolutely cannot be treated differently from any other call any other matchweek. Timing and sequence of the matches shouldn't matter to something like this.

I don't know if a shot clock is the right answer or not. But when you make clear and obvious the standard of review, that brings the amount of time into the review process.

I don't think the the standard of review is necessarily right. I think it is too deferential. The idea that "well, he had a clear view and chose not to call it, so it can't be clear and obvious and VAR has to defer to something that is obviously wrong" is just stupid I think and defeats the purpose of the tool.

But I also recognize that VAR (1) can't take huge chunks of time to reviw calls and (2) VAR can't review everything.

Which is why I'm kind of leaning to a place I never, ever thought I'd be, which is just scrap it. It's not that it's not a good idea. It's a great idea but one that is just too difficult to implement remotely well. So the game's maybe probably better off without it in its current iteration.

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but my contention is that it was given more time *because* it was so consequential

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 15:02:02, in reply to "Pretty fundamentally disagree on your first point."

it could have been given as a foul in 30 seconds. two replays in and you see 1. Raya getting his left arm held down. 2. Raya getting his shirt held down from the back as he's trying to jump.

They gave it more time because they wanted to ensure it was right. I don't think they were taking all that time looking for reasons to give it. I think they were taking all that time looking for any reason they shouldn't give it.

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"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

Agree to disagree again.

Posted by Chicago1995 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Chicago1995' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 15:08:49, in reply to "but my contention is that it was given more time *because* it was so consequential"

I mean the Raya fouls aren't even the first sequentially in the exchange. When they review something like this, they are supposed to review everything.

Which probably adds to the time, but there's no reason to think they were looking to give the goal. If anything, ignoring the myriad tackling Arsenal was doing to get to the Raya foul would indicate the opposite.

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I think that is a much larger discussion unrelated to this specific goal as it is an ongoing issue

Posted by dk <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=dk' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 15:19:59, in reply to "Agree to disagree again."

Discussed much more in the sub threads above but set pieces basically becoming WWE at this point with the number of bearhugs, tackles, and other types of interference on every single set piece is horrible for the sport and needs to be fixed. However for whatever reason the league does not seem to care about that issue so for this particular play all that matters is the Raya foul.

illinigifs.imgur.com

Understood and agreed.

Posted by Chicago1995 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Chicago1995' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 15:27:05, in reply to "I think that is a much larger discussion unrelated to this specific goal as it is an ongoing issue"

They aren't calling the grappling going on in the box in this game or any other and it's a huge, huge problem.

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if it's matchday 5 in the 21st minute between two mid table teams,

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 15:11:43, in reply to "Agree to disagree again."

they look at those first two replays and go, "yep. foul. disallowed."

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

I don't think that's the case, but if you are right, that's more reason to scrap VAR.

Posted by Chicago1995 <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Chicago1995' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 15:14:18, in reply to "if it's matchday 5 in the 21st minute between two mid table teams,"

The kind of subjectivity you are suggesting matters in these decisions -- that this could well decide both the title and relegation for team -- should NEVER come into play.

It is supposed to be officiated the same as any other game. Can't be any other way, and if it was, that's a hell of an indictment of PGMOL.

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they look at those first two replays and go, "yep. foul. disallowed."

agree to disagree. i think that's a ridiculous conclusion. *

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 15:15:46, in reply to "I don't think that's the case, but if you are right, that's more reason to scrap VAR."

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they look at those first two replays and go, "yep. foul. disallowed."

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

I think you're massivly oversimplifying the right and wrong component here.

Posted by Sounder <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Sounder' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 13:09:22, in reply to "would you rather it take 30 seconds and be wrong or take 5 minutes and be right?"

Be honest, if Arsenal scored this goal, are you confident it goes the same way? I am not.

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especially when it could very well be the call that decides who wins the league.

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so which one do you call?

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The inconsistency is the problem. They need to either completely rethink how they use VAR or dump it.

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are we talking about the same play? i'm confused.

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2026, 13:18:02, in reply to "I think you're massivly oversimplifying the right and wrong component here. "

yes, it goes the same way. because it was a clear foul.

and i'd be saying it was a clear foul if that was arsenal scoring a late equalizer.

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

Exactly *

Posted by QcIlliniFan <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=QcIlliniFan' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 10, 2026, 13:24:53, in reply to "100% a foul"

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Beat Burnley. *

Posted by Poldark <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=Poldark' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 10, 2026, 13:04:48, in reply to "TROSSARD!! (Kickball)*"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

Social Misfit who wants to coach Illinois women's basketball.

"Friday tailgates suck. People have jobs and school."

duplicate *

Posted by ATL <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=ATL' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 10, 2026, 12:34:00, in reply to "TROSSARD!! (Kickball)*"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

“We are old and tired and just want to be taken care of.” - Republican voter, Dec. 2024.

This isn't good for the old ticker, I must say.*

Posted by SurfTheBoneyard <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=SurfTheBoneyard' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 10, 2026, 12:33:57, in reply to "TROSSARD!! (Kickball)*"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

Sky Marshal of the Luftwaffle

“Surf is just a national treasure.” — Jackie

Clear foul. The most ironic of fouls.*

Posted by ATL <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=ATL' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 10, 2026, 12:33:53, in reply to "TROSSARD!! (Kickball)*"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

“We are old and tired and just want to be taken care of.” - Republican voter, Dec. 2024.

Oww, my blood pressure. *

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 10, 2026, 12:33:38, in reply to "TROSSARD!! (Kickball)*"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

100% a foul on raya *

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 10, 2026, 12:28:19, in reply to "TROSSARD!! (Kickball)*"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

Have to give that foul *

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

Raya can’t get up to get the ball. *

Posted by VIV <iframe src='https://mb.boardhost.com/TheDeuce/info/user=VIV' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 10, 2026, 12:28:43, in reply to "Have to give that foul *"

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

"the alchemy of the tartar sauce and cheese with the fish combined with the buttery steamed bun is so good." - Sounder re: a Filet O Fish

Yeah hes clearly impeded*

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One-nil to the Arsenal.

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