we agree that at some level there can be "excess" even if processes are efficient Archived Message
Posted by Potomac on February 23, 2024, 9:55:29, in reply to "If we were able to process applications in a timely fashion, there shouldn’t be “excess migrants”"
Matt Yglesias argues for one billion Americans, for example. I think his reasoning is weak and don't agree. At some point, "excess" means more than we are willing and able to accept and assimilate. Other countries have limits and will likely tighten them as they get overwhelmed by their standards. That's "excess" to them. I mean it as a pretty neutral term. Previous Message And this is a completely different question from whether our existing asylum rules are too lenient, which you have asserted but not argued. And the processing of folks who just show up at the border is, at least in theory, distinct from the process for green card or work visa applicants, although I’d guess it probably is coming from the same basic pot of administrative funding. And that processing is itself a different issue from the current quotas for work visas and skilled immigration. Edit: Thinking about it, the first two issues could be linked—if the volume of folks granted asylum is significant, that could create an “excess” population that needs to be assimilated or supported. (Or, alternatively, changing the rules to deny them admission.) I do agree that the burden for handling those granted asylum shouldn’t be offloaded completely to the states—the federal government should provide assistance and support. Previous Message How long some of my friends and colleagues here legally have waited to be permanent residents and eventually citizens is truly pathetic. Some may leave the country yet, and they comment how STEM talent often goes elsewhere now after college. The amount of computer talent in the US from India, China and a few other places is incredible, with even more turned away. A very large percentage of my son's company is legal, skilled immigrants. More, please. As a trivial UIUC example, look at Bronze Tablet results in recent years, and look at the Computer Science department. Yet people who just walk across or use bogus asylum claims because our government is so ineffective are treated about the same. Way too lenient. If the mass of excess migrants started getting spread around more, there would be more widespread debate and dissatisfaction. Could my home town in Illinois absorb a bunch? Of course not. The town has no money as it is. Could Annapolis, Maryland absorb a bunch of high-cost migrants? Very doubtful. Residents there see what is going on in NYC and probably just look away and complain about Texas or whatever. Previous Message I also think there’s a lot of vague scaremongering that (intentionally or not) conflates the range of distinct issues without making clear what the real concern is. Without clarity on the specific concerns and desired end states people have, you can’t develop a response. With that clarity, I think it’s a fairly straightforward and tractable problem to solve. One possible concern is that the number of people applying for admission or asylum is too large for us to handle. So we end up not having capacity to house people while they are waiting for judgement on their case, and are then released, which imposes a burden on the local state to manage them, and also raises the possibility of them not coming back and becoming illegal immigrants. And even if we had capacity to detain everyone, that itself is pretty costly. A second possible concern is that the border isn’t secure, that it’s too easy to sneak across and we hence have a large and increasing population of illegal immigrants. And the third possible concern is that our system is too lenient, and we are letting way too many people into the country legally, either through regular immigration, asylum/refugees, or both. I think 2 is a popular belief that Trump and others play on, with the “build the wall” rhetoric and posturing about sending militia or whatever to secure the border. But I don’t think this idea s actually the case any more. And strong evidence that it isn’t is precisely the first concern. If it was so easy to sneak across, then we wouldn’t be seeing a surge in folks trying to get in through legal channels, overwhelming our capacity. But if 1 was the concern, it’s trivial to solve. Simply provide funding to increase our processing capacity to keep up with the flow of applicants. The fact that this obvious and easy solution hasn’t been adopted makes me think that most of the folks making noise about the supposed crisis really just don’t want to allow much or any immigration, and are using issue 1 as rhetorical cover to try and address their real concern, #3. Because that’s a much easier case to make (“border courts overwhelmed!) than arguing that the standards for refugee/asylum status are too lenient, guven that the legal standards are pretty intuitive and align with most folks sense of justice and morality. But I’ll admit I haven’t paid a huge amount of attention to the issue, so maybe there are some other serious root concerns that people have. Previous Message 1-10
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Message Thread: | This response ↓
- How many shits do you give about the border? - Stu February 23, 2024, 6:58:18 [poll]
- So what is the actual, good faith argument, against expanding legal immigration? - Blazer February 23, 2024, 15:57:44
- Are you saying the US doesn’t have robust legal immigration? - bigbop85 February 24, 2024, 9:39:37
- Just need to tell boomers that more people paying FICA props up their soc security and medicare - meanjeans February 24, 2024, 8:59:30
- I am certainly no expert, but I think the economic impact really depends on education/skill - DT February 23, 2024, 16:44:52
- I'm fine with expanding legal immigration...especially making... - haighter February 23, 2024, 16:26:48
- To be clear, illegal immigration violations are already pretty severe. The issue is enforcement - ATL February 24, 2024, 9:28:02
- This pretty much what I want* - Tooldresser February 24, 2024, 9:01:10
- I might be wrong on this, but I think people are conflating “illegal immigration” and “asylum” - snipes824 February 23, 2024, 16:37:43
- Im not sure what you mean on the flip side piece - DT February 23, 2024, 16:33:03
- David Frum has made an argument that we are at a relatively high level of non-US born residents - ATL February 23, 2024, 16:13:08
- I wish as much legislation as campaign attention was given to it. - AintHatin February 23, 2024, 14:21:59
- Congrats on creating one of the most evenly distributed polls ever seen on here.* - Philo February 23, 2024, 13:10:09
- Gallup poll out on Biden, border, economy, immigration - bigbop85 February 23, 2024, 13:09:29
- As a side note, while it’s obviously a huge, difficult problem - DT February 23, 2024, 12:19:46
- For me it’s expand legal immigration/secure the border* - CanHartlebHireSnider February 23, 2024, 12:07:22
- this* - bigbop85 February 23, 2024, 13:04:03
- nm* - Blazer February 23, 2024, 11:29:38
- Zero* - Blazer February 23, 2024, 11:29:27
- I want it fixed because I think it's a roundly stupid and divisive topic... - haighter February 23, 2024, 10:31:13
- Amazingly even spread in the answers* - Stu February 23, 2024, 9:51:59
- Absolute hypocrisy. Abbot has spent over 140M and counting to throw migrants out of his state - illini thunder February 23, 2024, 9:37:24
- lulz, math is hard guy* - bigbop85 February 23, 2024, 13:04:48
- are any bus-destination states investing resources to help solve the problem? - bbonb February 23, 2024, 12:39:45
- Probably has a buddy who runs a bus charter biz. * - doubledown February 23, 2024, 10:17:36
- Work with the feds lol.* - gullit February 23, 2024, 9:53:34
- that's a lot less than it would cost to take care of them on the state's own budget* - Potomac February 23, 2024, 9:44:22
- Gas must be really expensive. Thanks Biden!* - ATL February 23, 2024, 9:40:28
- Genius Greg Abbott has turned it into the number one election issue.* - gullit February 23, 2024, 9:19:23
- Asylum is over used and needs to be tightened up - TarheelIllini February 23, 2024, 8:51:12
- I think it's awful how we're treating people who just want to come here to do jobs that - doubledown February 23, 2024, 8:15:51
- I voted 5. I’m not concerned with its security, and I don’t favor less total immigration - snipes824 February 23, 2024, 8:10:01
- I am pretty blasé about it, but also don’t live in a border state that is significantly impacted. - DT February 23, 2024, 7:42:13
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