The Deuce
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The Deuce
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The whole system sucks
Archived Message
Posted by ghost_of_clt
on February 2, 2024, 9:47:52, in reply to "
It’s a huge flaw in the system*
"
Message Thread:
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This response
↓
Find someone who looks at you the way old CEOs look at return to office mandates
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DT
February 2, 2024, 6:41:52
My predecessor’s head would have exploded with WFH during Covid. He was a straight 8-5, lunch 12-1
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harb
February 2, 2024, 19:13:48
Three days a week here, but as an employee that's been there for a few years...
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KingTalkyTiki
February 2, 2024, 13:53:39
For those of you pro WFH
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 13:05:55
Sure. And 90% is nonsense and without purpose. So are various other things corporate does.
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Jack McMurdo
February 2, 2024, 21:20:43
To put a word in defense of the CEOs
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DT
February 3, 2024, 6:27:48
Execs have zero clue what it’s like to be a regular worker. Zero. Zilch. *
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assassin
February 2, 2024, 22:48:58
Except at our place. Every person in management has worked their way up.
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Taz
February 3, 2024, 10:26:02
I have a lot of thoughts on it, some on both sides of the argument
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OB25
February 2, 2024, 17:19:07
#3 is something I am struggling with bigly
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 17:27:20
It also seems like work is a big part of your identity. Not judging,
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 17:51:03
I definitely have always gotten a tremendous amount of my self worth from my job
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 18:19:42
Why though? Everyone is replaceable
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 22:41:44
I also totally agree with 4 and 5*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 17:28:10
I could not disagree more with 5
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 17:35:11
I'm absolutely the same. Though I think that
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WhitmansFolly
February 3, 2024, 7:25:07
I think you can get more at home when you want to get more done
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 17:36:46
I worked at offices that allowed smoke breaks.
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digs
February 2, 2024, 17:39:34
We non smokers used to take “the burn.” Which was our smoke break.*
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 17:51:47
Please explain culture impact
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digs
February 2, 2024, 17:23:33
As I said in the post, I mean it more in building personal relationships…
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OB25
February 2, 2024, 20:04:27
I'm still pro-wfh or hybrid, though*
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Taz
February 2, 2024, 17:32:33
Yes, because it's easier for you, not because it's better for your clientele and employer*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 17:33:31
It does not affect my clients in any way. What it does is lower my stress levels
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Taz
February 2, 2024, 18:24:35
Do you have in person client meetings?*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 18:26:58
Yes we returned to in person client meetings a long time ago
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Taz
February 2, 2024, 18:49:53
Why should I care about what’s best for my employer?
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IlliniSax05
February 2, 2024, 17:37:06
because you care about doing a good job and you're not a selfish asshole?*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 17:38:03
Nearly all companies are “selfish assholes.” Why should I act any different?*
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Chicago1995
February 2, 2024, 22:26:55
I care about doing a good job cuz it keeps me employed and I got bills to pay
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IlliniSax05
February 2, 2024, 17:41:51
Right. I do the work I need to. I do it well. I’ll even go above.
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digs
February 2, 2024, 17:44:38
To further explain. I know many people w jobs wheee they can only leave for lunch
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digs
February 2, 2024, 17:48:32
How did you jump to that conclusion?*
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digs
February 2, 2024, 17:36:45
You've still not explained how working in the office is better for employers*
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 17:36:33
There's no point, you either get it or you don't
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 17:37:37
So you don't have an answer.
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 17:43:19
There's just no fucking point, this is like the 20th time this has been discussed
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 17:45:08
You've not actually said anything though
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 17:49:33
That and that bars and restaurants are suffering
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digs
February 2, 2024, 17:50:46
And to that i would argue the following
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 17:54:23
JFC the office space is never getting converted to housing*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 18:18:12
You have zero imagination and are completely a slave to corporate culture
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 19:58:13
Paintball courses would be pretty dope. *
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digs
February 2, 2024, 18:36:32
There’s a 99% deserted mall near me that would be perfect for this
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IlliniSax05
February 2, 2024, 18:46:02
Should probably force Amazon to close so the mall can be revived.*
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WhitmansFolly
February 3, 2024, 7:27:55
Its important in my life of work and that is the one real thing we see suffering
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Taz
February 2, 2024, 17:29:13
Not at all. If the work is getting done. Who cares?
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digs
February 2, 2024, 17:11:08
Yeah. It was also a relief when I told my boss I'm done with the business casual bs
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 17:16:29
I can in certain instances, but my experience is from a company forcing it
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WhitmansFolly
February 2, 2024, 16:14:08
because they have offices leased or buildings owned and they want some return on that
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VIV
February 2, 2024, 15:14:33
I’d be cynical on the RE piece but less so on the culture piece
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ATL
February 2, 2024, 15:23:08
No, because most of it is driven by "we used to do it this way"
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Dilbert
February 2, 2024, 14:17:54
I just don't agree, and will never agree*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 14:28:21
You also have no ability to see beyond your own opinion*
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 14:29:44
I totally see both sides of this, I really do
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 14:32:07
Well, I don't live downtown and I still do plenty to support actual local businesses
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Dilbert
February 2, 2024, 15:26:08
Then those industries or cities need to try something new
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GrandmotherPearlsJam
February 2, 2024, 14:39:03
"you need to be consuming more" isn't really a compelling reason for less WFH*
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RVA
February 2, 2024, 14:37:48
This is one of the more pointless lose lose deuce discussion points*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 14:38:44
not if they can't prove it, no*
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assassin
February 2, 2024, 13:39:02
This*
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 13:42:41
I can see why *people* want to go back to the before times, and mayors/cities
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snipes824
February 2, 2024, 13:09:19
I just think there is a huge loss of culture
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 13:11:31
Drunken work parties were great in my 20s and 30s. Now, meh. Unlike you
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bjl63
February 2, 2024, 13:52:55
Camaraderie isn’t the same thing as culture and collaboration. I think you miss camaraderie*
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 13:48:09
I miss both but I would agree overall*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 13:50:53
What do you consider "culture"?
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bjl63
February 2, 2024, 13:55:48
I've worked for companies like REI, Nordstrom, and lululemon
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 14:29:27
"And you stillllll haven't founnnnnd what you're looking forrrrrrr" *
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Jersey
February 2, 2024, 15:06:30
I disagree. Most of that 'culture' is forced and for every employee that likes it
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 13:17:53
I wouldn't say the pre-covid work environment was built by extroverts for extroverts
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IlliniSax05
February 2, 2024, 13:32:03
It was built over time by extroverts to favor extroverts
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 14:23:09
As an introvert, when I interviewed with our director to move into a management position
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Taz
February 2, 2024, 15:16:38
I think introverts can make fine managers
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 15:47:25
I think anyone can make a good manager. It's not personality driven, it's skill and
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Taz
February 2, 2024, 16:12:26
I'm not entirely convinced it can be learned
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 17:00:13
I think it’s like most human activities in that it’s a mix
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DT
February 2, 2024, 17:26:08
Disagree. You need to be open to learning and willing to take feedback
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 17:12:50
I also think leaders and managers are distinct skill sets. A lot of people confuse them. *
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haighter
February 2, 2024, 17:22:47
Maybe I kind of agree?
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 17:46:50
I guess I look at a “good” manager as someone who ticks off the kpi boxes…
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haighter
February 2, 2024, 19:07:22
In that context I way more leader than manager
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 20:04:33
At Amazon, the opposite is true
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 14:30:18
This is actually an intelligent and well reasoned analysis*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 13:49:31
Hundo p man. Effing extroverts running the world *
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Jackie
February 2, 2024, 13:26:38
Forced fun at the office is the worst*
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 13:43:41
I have been told I should speak out more in numerous reviews
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 13:29:49
Congrats you got your revenge
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 13:27:45
We'll be here if you ever want to get down off your cross*
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VIV
February 2, 2024, 15:16:25
It certainly is not. Extroverts will continue to run the world
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Jackie
February 2, 2024, 13:28:57
As was said below, this is not one size fits all
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snipes824
February 2, 2024, 13:17:52
…at one of the largest companies in the U.S.*
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Jackie
February 2, 2024, 13:13:25
Your point?*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 13:16:38
Your example might not apply at companies that aren’t massive corporations *
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Jackie
February 2, 2024, 13:25:59
I feel like it mostly does*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 13:26:51
Your lived experience is necessarily everyone else’s lived experience. Film at 11.
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GMAW
February 2, 2024, 13:37:07
just because you keep saying it over and over again doesn't make it any more true*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 14:32:35
That’s certainly what people are telling you, yes. *
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assassin
February 2, 2024, 15:12:27
Apologies, had to edit*
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Jackie
February 2, 2024, 13:27:46
you mean world
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IlliniSax05
February 2, 2024, 13:14:21
No.*
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Chicago1995
February 2, 2024, 13:06:51
Listen, if I’m wrong here and the tide has swung to more, not less, WFH
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TarheelIllini
February 2, 2024, 11:34:53
Medical facilities, assisted living for the wave of boomers *
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 12:54:08
boston's mayor (and barrington native, accused white person hater) proposed converting office to...
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torinese
February 2, 2024, 12:53:22
I’m so pro-conversion but from my reading it just doesn’t work on a grand scale
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snipes824
February 2, 2024, 13:12:50
It’s not remotely feasible most of the time
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 13:18:22
It just doesn’t work
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 13:06:43
As others have posted, that’s the commercial RE companies’ problem.
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DT
February 2, 2024, 12:50:57
That's not the company's problem*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 12:12:02
Office buildings are an expense, not income generating*
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 12:07:39
Not to company’s who own the space and rent it out*
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TarheelIllini
February 2, 2024, 12:25:07
Then they can redevelop and adjust.
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Dilbert
February 2, 2024, 12:27:16
It will turn into residential.*
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voiceofreason
February 2, 2024, 12:26:12
Until you have the SF situation where people are walking away from their leases....
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haighter
February 2, 2024, 12:26:03
ooo
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biclops
February 2, 2024, 12:06:16
Personally, whether or not I had kids makes a huge difference in what I prefer
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meanjeans
February 2, 2024, 11:01:10
I too find it easier to engage in self care at thome*
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gvibes
February 2, 2024, 11:27:57
Warren can go either way*
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Sammich
February 2, 2024, 11:30:23
Lol*
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 13:15:21
I was always lucky to have solid managers early on
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digs
February 2, 2024, 10:38:47
This was supposed to be in the other thread
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digs
February 2, 2024, 10:56:46
Oh now you tell me*
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Jackie
February 2, 2024, 13:01:22
I enjoyed comforts of WFH (food, dog, etc) but it became increasingly harder to work with other dept
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RSMBob
February 2, 2024, 10:27:55
one more thing that 100% WFH type need to keep in mind, at least in my industry
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Tooldresser
February 2, 2024, 10:22:07
And in my old industry, if you are wfh, we can get someone else (aka Costa Rica)
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TarheelIllini
February 2, 2024, 11:24:19
And this*
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Tooldresser
February 2, 2024, 14:20:08
Agreed, and perhaps sort of related: If it turns out that your job can be 100% WFH
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IlliniOllie
February 2, 2024, 11:03:36
That's what my former employer/current client (a major RE Developer in NYC) did
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Jersey
February 2, 2024, 15:22:20
This isn’t particularly relevant to this issue. The vast majority of office jobs are susceptible to
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ATL
February 2, 2024, 12:22:52
Why do corporations hate America?*
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Jackie
February 2, 2024, 13:08:14
Because the invisible hand touches them at night *
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ATL
February 2, 2024, 13:12:18
I am "travel or be in office with purpose"
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Dilbert
February 2, 2024, 10:16:09
I think that's probably closest to what we are
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ISeeDeadHawkeyes
February 2, 2024, 10:23:49
There was an interesting panel discussion on Chris Wallace's show last week.
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WhitmansFolly
February 2, 2024, 10:14:48
I think those pro-WFH people are living in a fantasy world.
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Carl Spackler
February 2, 2024, 10:19:02
Depends on your industry to a degree I suppose.
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WhitmansFolly
February 2, 2024, 10:29:18
Corporations are not fighting an uphill battle on this. People will bitch, they'll moan, then
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longsnapper
February 2, 2024, 12:11:16
Hasn’t been in my industry*
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Chicago1995
February 2, 2024, 13:08:11
On the flip side, the productivity benefits are grossly overstated
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DT
February 2, 2024, 12:24:59
From 2 days ago: IBM tells managers to come back to the office or leave their jobs.
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Carl Spackler
February 2, 2024, 11:03:15
Nit: they are moving to a hybrid model - 3/wk*
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ATL
February 2, 2024, 12:32:47
Let's see how it works out for them*
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WhitmansFolly
February 2, 2024, 12:14:10
My guess is that they will be fine and the people who leave are a cultural mismatch anyway *
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ATL
February 2, 2024, 12:36:45
That article really paints a picture of a well-managed company that is in no trouble at all.*
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Sammich
February 2, 2024, 11:05:56
Didn’t read the article but the stock has been doing well the past few years
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ATL
February 2, 2024, 13:53:17
who was it here who had like a 2 hour commute each way? someone in NY/NJ?*
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lcubed
February 2, 2024, 10:04:51
That would be moi *
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Jersey
February 2, 2024, 10:23:15
I technically have that. Charlottesville to DC.*
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LeatherneckIllini
February 2, 2024, 10:12:15
I actually prefer to work in the office instead of WFH.
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illinilosch
February 2, 2024, 9:56:23
I did, too.
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larue33
February 2, 2024, 10:05:36
On a related note, I had a bit of a panic attack last night realizing I’m halfway through my working
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biclops
February 2, 2024, 9:54:33
I hear ya, buddy. Just think of all the $ you need to save :-/ *
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Jackie
February 2, 2024, 13:07:18
The obvious takeaway seems to be that WFH is great for some businesses and employees and not so
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Jackie
February 2, 2024, 9:48:00
trying to be flexible is the key*
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Tooldresser
February 2, 2024, 10:18:55
welcome to the Deuce, Holly*
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Gene Parmesan
February 2, 2024, 10:10:44
This*
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snipes824
February 2, 2024, 9:59:38
DING DING DING
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Carl Spackler
February 2, 2024, 9:57:55
I just think it's bad for society as a whole
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 9:55:02
This is such a classic Sounder post
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GMAW
February 2, 2024, 10:56:55
I know that everything I say is interpreted with controversy
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 11:45:12
You did exactly what he said, dude*
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Jackie
February 2, 2024, 13:12:24
the most ridiculous thing is having us come in to the office, then still meeting via teams. *
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VIV
February 2, 2024, 9:38:39
I can one up you, I'm usually on Teams calls with people so close to me
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 9:55:39
That's 100% a culture issue. If I, or any of my direct reports, tried to dial into a teams call...
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haighter
February 2, 2024, 10:27:11
Correct, I work with a bunch of socially awkward tech nerds*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 10:39:48
Do you have the ability / authority to walk over to them and say...
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haighter
February 2, 2024, 11:01:05
I stopped trying, it’s just not worth it*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 11:33:13
Maybe it’s my need to impose my will…but dialing into a meeting taking place…
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haighter
February 2, 2024, 11:40:31
It's not that the meeting is taking place in the office I am in
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 11:44:09
I usually slip home wednesday afternoon if I can
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ijustkrushalot
February 2, 2024, 9:42:42
plus having to put on pants to come into the office*
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Tortillini
February 2, 2024, 9:41:44
We just got the announcement of 2 days minimum if within 30 miles of an office
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OB25
February 2, 2024, 9:05:59
I’m with Stu and Sounder. I hated WFH, and would’ve changed jobs by May 2020 if I had been stuck
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IlliniOllie
February 2, 2024, 9:01:25
Heh. I’m on a detail and just found out they don’t have room for me in their office area
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DT
February 2, 2024, 8:57:16
WTF*
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Tortillini
February 2, 2024, 9:39:26
That is asinine. I know I’m stating the obvious *
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 9:07:48
Went into the office for the first time yesterday in about a month and a half
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Jersey
February 2, 2024, 8:18:53
My current company is completely distributed so there’s no chance we go back to office unless they
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snipes824
February 2, 2024, 8:12:45
My old company was set up like this, and they indeed force relocations
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WhitmansFolly
February 2, 2024, 9:53:27
Just to be clear, I do think there are some advantages to being in person
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DT
February 2, 2024, 8:18:41
Yes, I agree, particularly the last part
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snipes824
February 2, 2024, 8:27:05
Don't see our organization doing any of that soon
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timmer
February 2, 2024, 8:05:02
if you are fully remote do you get any reimbursement when required to go into the office?
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lcubed
February 2, 2024, 8:04:35
My company gives us 400 bucks a month for parking directly tied to requiring us to come in. *
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haighter
February 2, 2024, 9:29:30
We don’t, but we were full time telework rather than remote
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DT
February 2, 2024, 8:10:28
Feds in DC can get public transportation reimbursements*
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timmer
February 2, 2024, 8:05:54
Hell yeah
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bigbop85
February 2, 2024, 8:00:48
Junior's company has found office presence helpful, esp. for young staff
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Potomac
February 2, 2024, 7:55:02
yes, my son, ChemE, specifically looked for his first job to be not remote
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Tooldresser
February 2, 2024, 8:16:38
Good for him. There's so much to learn from actually seeing how things work in the field
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IlliniOllie
February 2, 2024, 8:23:58
Not specific to engineering, but the cohort I think office helps the most is new grads
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snipes824
February 2, 2024, 8:30:16
Correct. And I might add that you need some mid career types in the office to teach the newbies
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Tooldresser
February 2, 2024, 9:05:38
Yeah, true*
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snipes824
February 2, 2024, 9:30:49
That generation has no idea how to socially interact*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 8:03:36
I vaguely remember what it was like having a job and working for The Man
-
Stu
February 2, 2024, 7:47:58
For me, it has more to do with keeping work and home life separate. When I get home,
-
Philo
February 2, 2024, 7:54:36
Yup, that's the way I am/was.*
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Stu
February 2, 2024, 9:55:25
A big reason I drank too much during the pandemic
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 8:05:05
It’s awful
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 7:51:48
That's something that's nice about working in an industrial setting
-
IlliniOllie
February 2, 2024, 8:17:46
Yuuuuup. *
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haighter
February 2, 2024, 9:30:32
We've been back hybrid since 2021, but we just had our first mandated in-office meeting last week
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Taz
February 2, 2024, 7:43:09
I hate WFH and I hate working in shitty work environments*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 7:28:04
I don’t mind going to the office, but that’s because I have an office.
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 7:56:58
Hell. I long for a cube
-
Sounder
February 2, 2024, 8:06:23
Yeah that has proven to be mostly misguided too*
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 8:08:53
I just wish they would be honest
-
Sounder
February 2, 2024, 8:10:23
It always was about saving money…..my old company spent over 1million
-
TarheelIllini
February 2, 2024, 11:31:38
Cosign *
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 8:11:30
Dotz
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 7:27:10
Bigger companies want butts in chairs. Otherwise how can you ensure people are working?
-
doubledown
February 2, 2024, 7:11:47
I think that second paragraph is spot on
-
Jackie
February 2, 2024, 8:00:04
my Navy customers have been hybrid (3/2) for over a year*
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Tooldresser
February 2, 2024, 7:10:17
It is kinda odd that they’re not enforcing which three days it is. *
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haighter
February 2, 2024, 7:09:19
Most companies don’t, as far as I know*
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 7:54:49
It’s a huge flaw in the system*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 8:01:48
The whole system sucks
-
ghost_of_clt
February 2, 2024, 9:47:52
I think those 10-20% will be very disappointed at what they find on the job market.
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Carl Spackler
February 2, 2024, 7:04:20
There’s not a ton of remote work options, I agree
-
DT
February 2, 2024, 7:26:43
Exactly. The work from home dream is over*
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longsnapper
February 2, 2024, 7:10:03
So ridiculous. *
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 6:56:40
The problem is that all jobs are going to go back
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TarheelIllini
February 2, 2024, 6:44:46
We’re not going back.
-
SurfTheBoneyard
February 2, 2024, 7:01:14
I’m not surprised they are shifting back that way
-
DT
February 2, 2024, 6:53:46
We have the CEO talking about wanting people in the office...
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shua
February 2, 2024, 6:44:21
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