The Deuce
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Message Archive
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The Deuce
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because they have offices leased or buildings owned and they want some return on that
Archived Message
Posted by VIV
on February 2, 2024, 15:14:33, in reply to "
For those of you pro WFH
"
and the vast majority of the management is from the old school and if they had to sit in an office for 30 years to get where they are today, then by god, you should have to, too.
if it's an issue of declined output, then you have bad managers.
Message Thread:
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This response
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Find someone who looks at you the way old CEOs look at return to office mandates
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DT
February 2, 2024, 6:41:52
My predecessor’s head would have exploded with WFH during Covid. He was a straight 8-5, lunch 12-1
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harb
February 2, 2024, 19:13:48
Three days a week here, but as an employee that's been there for a few years...
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KingTalkyTiki
February 2, 2024, 13:53:39
For those of you pro WFH
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 13:05:55
Sure. And 90% is nonsense and without purpose. So are various other things corporate does.
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Jack McMurdo
February 2, 2024, 21:20:43
To put a word in defense of the CEOs
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DT
February 3, 2024, 6:27:48
Execs have zero clue what it’s like to be a regular worker. Zero. Zilch. *
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assassin
February 2, 2024, 22:48:58
Except at our place. Every person in management has worked their way up.
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Taz
February 3, 2024, 10:26:02
I have a lot of thoughts on it, some on both sides of the argument
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OB25
February 2, 2024, 17:19:07
#3 is something I am struggling with bigly
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 17:27:20
It also seems like work is a big part of your identity. Not judging,
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 17:51:03
I definitely have always gotten a tremendous amount of my self worth from my job
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 18:19:42
Why though? Everyone is replaceable
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 22:41:44
I also totally agree with 4 and 5*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 17:28:10
I could not disagree more with 5
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 17:35:11
I'm absolutely the same. Though I think that
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WhitmansFolly
February 3, 2024, 7:25:07
I think you can get more at home when you want to get more done
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 17:36:46
I worked at offices that allowed smoke breaks.
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digs
February 2, 2024, 17:39:34
We non smokers used to take “the burn.” Which was our smoke break.*
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 17:51:47
Please explain culture impact
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digs
February 2, 2024, 17:23:33
As I said in the post, I mean it more in building personal relationships…
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OB25
February 2, 2024, 20:04:27
I'm still pro-wfh or hybrid, though*
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Taz
February 2, 2024, 17:32:33
Yes, because it's easier for you, not because it's better for your clientele and employer*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 17:33:31
It does not affect my clients in any way. What it does is lower my stress levels
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Taz
February 2, 2024, 18:24:35
Do you have in person client meetings?*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 18:26:58
Yes we returned to in person client meetings a long time ago
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Taz
February 2, 2024, 18:49:53
Why should I care about what’s best for my employer?
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IlliniSax05
February 2, 2024, 17:37:06
because you care about doing a good job and you're not a selfish asshole?*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 17:38:03
Nearly all companies are “selfish assholes.” Why should I act any different?*
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Chicago1995
February 2, 2024, 22:26:55
I care about doing a good job cuz it keeps me employed and I got bills to pay
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IlliniSax05
February 2, 2024, 17:41:51
Right. I do the work I need to. I do it well. I’ll even go above.
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digs
February 2, 2024, 17:44:38
To further explain. I know many people w jobs wheee they can only leave for lunch
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digs
February 2, 2024, 17:48:32
How did you jump to that conclusion?*
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digs
February 2, 2024, 17:36:45
You've still not explained how working in the office is better for employers*
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 17:36:33
There's no point, you either get it or you don't
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 17:37:37
So you don't have an answer.
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 17:43:19
There's just no fucking point, this is like the 20th time this has been discussed
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 17:45:08
You've not actually said anything though
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 17:49:33
That and that bars and restaurants are suffering
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digs
February 2, 2024, 17:50:46
And to that i would argue the following
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 17:54:23
JFC the office space is never getting converted to housing*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 18:18:12
You have zero imagination and are completely a slave to corporate culture
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 19:58:13
Paintball courses would be pretty dope. *
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digs
February 2, 2024, 18:36:32
There’s a 99% deserted mall near me that would be perfect for this
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IlliniSax05
February 2, 2024, 18:46:02
Should probably force Amazon to close so the mall can be revived.*
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WhitmansFolly
February 3, 2024, 7:27:55
Its important in my life of work and that is the one real thing we see suffering
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Taz
February 2, 2024, 17:29:13
Not at all. If the work is getting done. Who cares?
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digs
February 2, 2024, 17:11:08
Yeah. It was also a relief when I told my boss I'm done with the business casual bs
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 17:16:29
I can in certain instances, but my experience is from a company forcing it
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WhitmansFolly
February 2, 2024, 16:14:08
because they have offices leased or buildings owned and they want some return on that
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VIV
February 2, 2024, 15:14:33
I’d be cynical on the RE piece but less so on the culture piece
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ATL
February 2, 2024, 15:23:08
No, because most of it is driven by "we used to do it this way"
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Dilbert
February 2, 2024, 14:17:54
I just don't agree, and will never agree*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 14:28:21
You also have no ability to see beyond your own opinion*
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 14:29:44
I totally see both sides of this, I really do
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 14:32:07
Well, I don't live downtown and I still do plenty to support actual local businesses
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Dilbert
February 2, 2024, 15:26:08
Then those industries or cities need to try something new
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GrandmotherPearlsJam
February 2, 2024, 14:39:03
"you need to be consuming more" isn't really a compelling reason for less WFH*
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RVA
February 2, 2024, 14:37:48
This is one of the more pointless lose lose deuce discussion points*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 14:38:44
not if they can't prove it, no*
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assassin
February 2, 2024, 13:39:02
This*
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 13:42:41
I can see why *people* want to go back to the before times, and mayors/cities
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snipes824
February 2, 2024, 13:09:19
I just think there is a huge loss of culture
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 13:11:31
Drunken work parties were great in my 20s and 30s. Now, meh. Unlike you
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bjl63
February 2, 2024, 13:52:55
Camaraderie isn’t the same thing as culture and collaboration. I think you miss camaraderie*
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 13:48:09
I miss both but I would agree overall*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 13:50:53
What do you consider "culture"?
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bjl63
February 2, 2024, 13:55:48
I've worked for companies like REI, Nordstrom, and lululemon
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 14:29:27
"And you stillllll haven't founnnnnd what you're looking forrrrrrr" *
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Jersey
February 2, 2024, 15:06:30
I disagree. Most of that 'culture' is forced and for every employee that likes it
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 13:17:53
I wouldn't say the pre-covid work environment was built by extroverts for extroverts
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IlliniSax05
February 2, 2024, 13:32:03
It was built over time by extroverts to favor extroverts
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 14:23:09
As an introvert, when I interviewed with our director to move into a management position
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Taz
February 2, 2024, 15:16:38
I think introverts can make fine managers
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 15:47:25
I think anyone can make a good manager. It's not personality driven, it's skill and
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Taz
February 2, 2024, 16:12:26
I'm not entirely convinced it can be learned
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 17:00:13
I think it’s like most human activities in that it’s a mix
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DT
February 2, 2024, 17:26:08
Disagree. You need to be open to learning and willing to take feedback
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 17:12:50
I also think leaders and managers are distinct skill sets. A lot of people confuse them. *
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haighter
February 2, 2024, 17:22:47
Maybe I kind of agree?
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 17:46:50
I guess I look at a “good” manager as someone who ticks off the kpi boxes…
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haighter
February 2, 2024, 19:07:22
In that context I way more leader than manager
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 20:04:33
At Amazon, the opposite is true
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 14:30:18
This is actually an intelligent and well reasoned analysis*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 13:49:31
Hundo p man. Effing extroverts running the world *
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Jackie
February 2, 2024, 13:26:38
Forced fun at the office is the worst*
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 13:43:41
I have been told I should speak out more in numerous reviews
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 13:29:49
Congrats you got your revenge
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 13:27:45
We'll be here if you ever want to get down off your cross*
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VIV
February 2, 2024, 15:16:25
It certainly is not. Extroverts will continue to run the world
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Jackie
February 2, 2024, 13:28:57
As was said below, this is not one size fits all
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snipes824
February 2, 2024, 13:17:52
…at one of the largest companies in the U.S.*
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Jackie
February 2, 2024, 13:13:25
Your point?*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 13:16:38
Your example might not apply at companies that aren’t massive corporations *
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Jackie
February 2, 2024, 13:25:59
I feel like it mostly does*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 13:26:51
Your lived experience is necessarily everyone else’s lived experience. Film at 11.
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GMAW
February 2, 2024, 13:37:07
just because you keep saying it over and over again doesn't make it any more true*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 14:32:35
That’s certainly what people are telling you, yes. *
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assassin
February 2, 2024, 15:12:27
Apologies, had to edit*
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Jackie
February 2, 2024, 13:27:46
you mean world
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IlliniSax05
February 2, 2024, 13:14:21
No.*
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Chicago1995
February 2, 2024, 13:06:51
Listen, if I’m wrong here and the tide has swung to more, not less, WFH
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TarheelIllini
February 2, 2024, 11:34:53
Medical facilities, assisted living for the wave of boomers *
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 12:54:08
boston's mayor (and barrington native, accused white person hater) proposed converting office to...
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torinese
February 2, 2024, 12:53:22
I’m so pro-conversion but from my reading it just doesn’t work on a grand scale
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snipes824
February 2, 2024, 13:12:50
It’s not remotely feasible most of the time
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 13:18:22
It just doesn’t work
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 13:06:43
As others have posted, that’s the commercial RE companies’ problem.
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DT
February 2, 2024, 12:50:57
That's not the company's problem*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 12:12:02
Office buildings are an expense, not income generating*
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 12:07:39
Not to company’s who own the space and rent it out*
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TarheelIllini
February 2, 2024, 12:25:07
Then they can redevelop and adjust.
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Dilbert
February 2, 2024, 12:27:16
It will turn into residential.*
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voiceofreason
February 2, 2024, 12:26:12
Until you have the SF situation where people are walking away from their leases....
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haighter
February 2, 2024, 12:26:03
ooo
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biclops
February 2, 2024, 12:06:16
Personally, whether or not I had kids makes a huge difference in what I prefer
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meanjeans
February 2, 2024, 11:01:10
I too find it easier to engage in self care at thome*
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gvibes
February 2, 2024, 11:27:57
Warren can go either way*
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Sammich
February 2, 2024, 11:30:23
Lol*
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opey8
February 2, 2024, 13:15:21
I was always lucky to have solid managers early on
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digs
February 2, 2024, 10:38:47
This was supposed to be in the other thread
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digs
February 2, 2024, 10:56:46
Oh now you tell me*
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Jackie
February 2, 2024, 13:01:22
I enjoyed comforts of WFH (food, dog, etc) but it became increasingly harder to work with other dept
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RSMBob
February 2, 2024, 10:27:55
one more thing that 100% WFH type need to keep in mind, at least in my industry
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Tooldresser
February 2, 2024, 10:22:07
And in my old industry, if you are wfh, we can get someone else (aka Costa Rica)
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TarheelIllini
February 2, 2024, 11:24:19
And this*
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Tooldresser
February 2, 2024, 14:20:08
Agreed, and perhaps sort of related: If it turns out that your job can be 100% WFH
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IlliniOllie
February 2, 2024, 11:03:36
That's what my former employer/current client (a major RE Developer in NYC) did
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Jersey
February 2, 2024, 15:22:20
This isn’t particularly relevant to this issue. The vast majority of office jobs are susceptible to
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ATL
February 2, 2024, 12:22:52
Why do corporations hate America?*
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Jackie
February 2, 2024, 13:08:14
Because the invisible hand touches them at night *
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ATL
February 2, 2024, 13:12:18
I am "travel or be in office with purpose"
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Dilbert
February 2, 2024, 10:16:09
I think that's probably closest to what we are
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ISeeDeadHawkeyes
February 2, 2024, 10:23:49
There was an interesting panel discussion on Chris Wallace's show last week.
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WhitmansFolly
February 2, 2024, 10:14:48
I think those pro-WFH people are living in a fantasy world.
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Carl Spackler
February 2, 2024, 10:19:02
Depends on your industry to a degree I suppose.
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WhitmansFolly
February 2, 2024, 10:29:18
Corporations are not fighting an uphill battle on this. People will bitch, they'll moan, then
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longsnapper
February 2, 2024, 12:11:16
Hasn’t been in my industry*
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Chicago1995
February 2, 2024, 13:08:11
On the flip side, the productivity benefits are grossly overstated
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DT
February 2, 2024, 12:24:59
From 2 days ago: IBM tells managers to come back to the office or leave their jobs.
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Carl Spackler
February 2, 2024, 11:03:15
Nit: they are moving to a hybrid model - 3/wk*
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ATL
February 2, 2024, 12:32:47
Let's see how it works out for them*
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WhitmansFolly
February 2, 2024, 12:14:10
My guess is that they will be fine and the people who leave are a cultural mismatch anyway *
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ATL
February 2, 2024, 12:36:45
That article really paints a picture of a well-managed company that is in no trouble at all.*
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Sammich
February 2, 2024, 11:05:56
Didn’t read the article but the stock has been doing well the past few years
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ATL
February 2, 2024, 13:53:17
who was it here who had like a 2 hour commute each way? someone in NY/NJ?*
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lcubed
February 2, 2024, 10:04:51
That would be moi *
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Jersey
February 2, 2024, 10:23:15
I technically have that. Charlottesville to DC.*
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LeatherneckIllini
February 2, 2024, 10:12:15
I actually prefer to work in the office instead of WFH.
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illinilosch
February 2, 2024, 9:56:23
I did, too.
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larue33
February 2, 2024, 10:05:36
On a related note, I had a bit of a panic attack last night realizing I’m halfway through my working
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biclops
February 2, 2024, 9:54:33
I hear ya, buddy. Just think of all the $ you need to save :-/ *
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Jackie
February 2, 2024, 13:07:18
The obvious takeaway seems to be that WFH is great for some businesses and employees and not so
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Jackie
February 2, 2024, 9:48:00
trying to be flexible is the key*
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Tooldresser
February 2, 2024, 10:18:55
welcome to the Deuce, Holly*
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Gene Parmesan
February 2, 2024, 10:10:44
This*
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snipes824
February 2, 2024, 9:59:38
DING DING DING
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Carl Spackler
February 2, 2024, 9:57:55
I just think it's bad for society as a whole
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 9:55:02
This is such a classic Sounder post
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GMAW
February 2, 2024, 10:56:55
I know that everything I say is interpreted with controversy
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 11:45:12
You did exactly what he said, dude*
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Jackie
February 2, 2024, 13:12:24
the most ridiculous thing is having us come in to the office, then still meeting via teams. *
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VIV
February 2, 2024, 9:38:39
I can one up you, I'm usually on Teams calls with people so close to me
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 9:55:39
That's 100% a culture issue. If I, or any of my direct reports, tried to dial into a teams call...
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haighter
February 2, 2024, 10:27:11
Correct, I work with a bunch of socially awkward tech nerds*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 10:39:48
Do you have the ability / authority to walk over to them and say...
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haighter
February 2, 2024, 11:01:05
I stopped trying, it’s just not worth it*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 11:33:13
Maybe it’s my need to impose my will…but dialing into a meeting taking place…
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haighter
February 2, 2024, 11:40:31
It's not that the meeting is taking place in the office I am in
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 11:44:09
I usually slip home wednesday afternoon if I can
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ijustkrushalot
February 2, 2024, 9:42:42
plus having to put on pants to come into the office*
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Tortillini
February 2, 2024, 9:41:44
We just got the announcement of 2 days minimum if within 30 miles of an office
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OB25
February 2, 2024, 9:05:59
I’m with Stu and Sounder. I hated WFH, and would’ve changed jobs by May 2020 if I had been stuck
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IlliniOllie
February 2, 2024, 9:01:25
Heh. I’m on a detail and just found out they don’t have room for me in their office area
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DT
February 2, 2024, 8:57:16
WTF*
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Tortillini
February 2, 2024, 9:39:26
That is asinine. I know I’m stating the obvious *
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 9:07:48
Went into the office for the first time yesterday in about a month and a half
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Jersey
February 2, 2024, 8:18:53
My current company is completely distributed so there’s no chance we go back to office unless they
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snipes824
February 2, 2024, 8:12:45
My old company was set up like this, and they indeed force relocations
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WhitmansFolly
February 2, 2024, 9:53:27
Just to be clear, I do think there are some advantages to being in person
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DT
February 2, 2024, 8:18:41
Yes, I agree, particularly the last part
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snipes824
February 2, 2024, 8:27:05
Don't see our organization doing any of that soon
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timmer
February 2, 2024, 8:05:02
if you are fully remote do you get any reimbursement when required to go into the office?
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lcubed
February 2, 2024, 8:04:35
My company gives us 400 bucks a month for parking directly tied to requiring us to come in. *
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haighter
February 2, 2024, 9:29:30
We don’t, but we were full time telework rather than remote
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DT
February 2, 2024, 8:10:28
Feds in DC can get public transportation reimbursements*
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timmer
February 2, 2024, 8:05:54
Hell yeah
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bigbop85
February 2, 2024, 8:00:48
Junior's company has found office presence helpful, esp. for young staff
-
Potomac
February 2, 2024, 7:55:02
yes, my son, ChemE, specifically looked for his first job to be not remote
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Tooldresser
February 2, 2024, 8:16:38
Good for him. There's so much to learn from actually seeing how things work in the field
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IlliniOllie
February 2, 2024, 8:23:58
Not specific to engineering, but the cohort I think office helps the most is new grads
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snipes824
February 2, 2024, 8:30:16
Correct. And I might add that you need some mid career types in the office to teach the newbies
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Tooldresser
February 2, 2024, 9:05:38
Yeah, true*
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snipes824
February 2, 2024, 9:30:49
That generation has no idea how to socially interact*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 8:03:36
I vaguely remember what it was like having a job and working for The Man
-
Stu
February 2, 2024, 7:47:58
For me, it has more to do with keeping work and home life separate. When I get home,
-
Philo
February 2, 2024, 7:54:36
Yup, that's the way I am/was.*
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Stu
February 2, 2024, 9:55:25
A big reason I drank too much during the pandemic
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 8:05:05
It’s awful
-
Sounder
February 2, 2024, 7:51:48
That's something that's nice about working in an industrial setting
-
IlliniOllie
February 2, 2024, 8:17:46
Yuuuuup. *
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haighter
February 2, 2024, 9:30:32
We've been back hybrid since 2021, but we just had our first mandated in-office meeting last week
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Taz
February 2, 2024, 7:43:09
I hate WFH and I hate working in shitty work environments*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 7:28:04
I don’t mind going to the office, but that’s because I have an office.
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 7:56:58
Hell. I long for a cube
-
Sounder
February 2, 2024, 8:06:23
Yeah that has proven to be mostly misguided too*
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 8:08:53
I just wish they would be honest
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 8:10:23
It always was about saving money…..my old company spent over 1million
-
TarheelIllini
February 2, 2024, 11:31:38
Cosign *
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 8:11:30
Dotz
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 7:27:10
Bigger companies want butts in chairs. Otherwise how can you ensure people are working?
-
doubledown
February 2, 2024, 7:11:47
I think that second paragraph is spot on
-
Jackie
February 2, 2024, 8:00:04
my Navy customers have been hybrid (3/2) for over a year*
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Tooldresser
February 2, 2024, 7:10:17
It is kinda odd that they’re not enforcing which three days it is. *
-
haighter
February 2, 2024, 7:09:19
Most companies don’t, as far as I know*
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 7:54:49
It’s a huge flaw in the system*
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Sounder
February 2, 2024, 8:01:48
The whole system sucks
-
ghost_of_clt
February 2, 2024, 9:47:52
I think those 10-20% will be very disappointed at what they find on the job market.
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Carl Spackler
February 2, 2024, 7:04:20
There’s not a ton of remote work options, I agree
-
DT
February 2, 2024, 7:26:43
Exactly. The work from home dream is over*
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longsnapper
February 2, 2024, 7:10:03
So ridiculous. *
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PapaDels
February 2, 2024, 6:56:40
The problem is that all jobs are going to go back
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TarheelIllini
February 2, 2024, 6:44:46
We’re not going back.
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SurfTheBoneyard
February 2, 2024, 7:01:14
I’m not surprised they are shifting back that way
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DT
February 2, 2024, 6:53:46
We have the CEO talking about wanting people in the office...
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shua
February 2, 2024, 6:44:21
Searching